-----Original Message-----
From: m...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:m...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael W. Mann
Sent: 29 April 2005 17:57
To: m...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [motoroladsp] Re: 56800/E Trial

--- In m...@yahoogroups.com, steven_russ99@y... wrote:
> I've been learning how to program on the 56800/E at this link
http://www.techonline.com/community/ed_resource/virtualab. This
company lets you use real eval boards for free. The eval boards are
accessible online, they are not emulators or simulators. Has anyone
else checked this out?

We've had something like this on TechOnLine for several years.  I
remember helping setup the first set of these...

Anyway, the utility of this setup for you is a function of what you
want to do with it.  If you are interested in getting a "taste" of
CodeWarrior, Processor Expert, and PC Master - then this setup will
meet your needs. 

If you are interested in learning the basics of programming then I
would recommend you get an "evaluation" copy of CodeWarrior from
Metrowerks.  You can use the built-in simulator to learn the basics
of programming, but with the simulator you won't have access to any
of the peripherals.

If you want to learn more then I would recommend you purchase a
56F800 Demo Board kit
(http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?
code=56F800DEMO&nodeId=018rH31978 ) for about $50 from Freescale by
way of DigiKey.  It provides a 56F801 board and a free (reduced
memory map) version of CodeWarrior. 

With the demo kit you can program the device and put a scope on its
pins to see what the peripherals are doing.


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>> As far as your "best in class" comment, I recommend everyone
to watch this 10 minutes CodeWarrior video and tell me what other 16-
bit embedded DSP tool will support all these features with free
license: <<

The fact that Codewarrior is free simply does not make it "best in
class". There is an awful lot more to being a good C compiler and
debugger - and therefore a worthwhile tool - than being free of
charge.

Codewarrior is bloated (it's simply unbelievable how big it is now);
slow to load; *incredibly* slow at debugging (the time it takes to
single step through code is just a joke); has some incredible
shortcomings such as not being able to reset the system, but having to
reload the flash (and boy is that a long tortuous experience).

Then there are things like not being able to globally set all the
variables to be hex, or decimal or whatever you want (only being able
to do it one variable at a time); having floating windows for watch
variables; having to reload watches when the program is rebooted etc
etc.

If you think Codewarrior is good, I suggest you go and have a look at
something like Rowley's tools for IDEs, or Atmel Studio to see how a
good debugger should work, or even TI's Code Composer which is *far*
from perfect but a massive improvement on Codewarrior.

Someone made the point that Codewarrior's "best in class" claim was a
marketing stance and I believe they are probably right. AFAIK,
Codewarrior *was* best in class for the Mac - I think it was and went
a long way towards saving the Mac a few years ago. I think Metrowerks
have ridden on the back of this for years, but the DSP Codewarrior is
a million miles from the Power PC version and because the Power PC is
so different from the 56F8xxx DSPs it probably *shouldn't* be the same
IDE. Different tools for different jobs...

And don't even get me started on how people are being forced to go
down the route of processor expert which produces horrible, horrible,
messy source code with so many files that make it so difficult to
really *understand* the code. (Yes, it is possible to start new
projects without PE, but some things like FFTs are now only supplied
as beans in PE.)

There are many cheap (but not free) excellent tools around these days
for other processors that are superbly supported, and are not hugely
bloated like Codewarrior is. I do not at all resent paying a few
hundred pounds for good software. I would much rather pay for
something that's good, than something that is free, but poor to the
point of making me want to switch processor. (Something that a friend
of mine actually did.)

What's even more frustrating is that the processors themselves are
really rather good and tremendous value for money.

It will be very interesting to see how good Cosmic's 56F8xxx tool is.
I think it could give the Freescale DSPs a new lease of life.



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-----Original Message-----
From: m...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:m...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth Ciszewski
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 11:24 PM
To: dibosco; m...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [motoroladsp] Re: 56800/E Trial

I am of the opinion that Code Warrior is complex, with lots of features and options, but as a result is not necessarily easy to learn or use.

 

SDK for 56800 is also very involved, and not that well documented.  Using it requires deciphering how the include files work to "configure" the software to activate the various on-chip peripherals. 

 

The days of the really decent application notes, for which Motorola was so famous years ago, are simply not with us at present, making all of this a very interesting mind-reading exercise.

 

The most interesting example from my point of view is the CODEC driver in SDK, which loops the audio out of and back into the Crystal codec IC.  The problem there is that the driver is not useful, because it doesn't separate out the left and right channels of the stereo audio data stream, as was easily done by the assembly language routines for DSP56000 and other earlier processors.  Those routines were extremely easy to tailor for different applications, and had good App notes.  The present method is to write lots of C and/or C++ style code, and assume that code is an adequate explanation of what is going on.  Considering the number and depth of the file chains, it's not easy to figure all of this out.

 

Does anyone know of a good program that traces through C/C++ and "diagrams" how the software actually calls routines and passes variables?  I remember seeing one some years ago, but haven't seen such a program lately. Maybe such a program would help.

 

dibosco <d...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> As far as your "best in class" comment, I recommend everyone
to watch this 10 minutes CodeWarrior video and tell me what other 16-
bit embedded DSP tool will support all these features with free
license: <<

The fact that Codewarrior is free simply does not make it "best in
class". There is an awful lot more to being a good C compiler and
debugger - and therefore a worthwhile tool - than being free of
charge.

Codewarrior is bloated (it's simply unbelievable how big it is now);
slow to load; *incredibly* slow at debugging (the time it takes to
single step through code is just a joke); has some incredible
shortcomings such as not being able to reset the system, but having to
reload the flash (and boy is that a long tortuous experience).

Then there are things like not being able to globally set all the
variables to be hex, or decimal or whatever you want (only being able
to do it one variable at a time); having floating windows for watch
variables; having to reload watches when the program is rebooted etc
etc.

If you think Codewarrior is good, I suggest you go and have a look at
something like Rowley's tools for IDEs, or Atmel Studio to see how a
good debugger should work, or even TI's Code Composer which is *far*
from perfect but a massive improvement on Codewarrior.

Someone made the point that Codewarrior's "best in class" claim was a
marketing stance and I believe they are probably right. AFAIK,
Codewarrior *was* best in class for the Mac - I think it was and went
a long way towards saving the Mac a few years ago. I think Metrowerks
have ridden on the back of this for years, but the DSP Codewarrior is
a million miles from the Power PC version and because the Power PC is
so different from the 56F8xxx DSPs it probably *shouldn't* be the same
IDE. Different tools for different jobs...

And don't even get me started on how people are being forced to go
down the route of processor expert which produces horrible, horrible,
messy source code with so many files that make it so difficult to
really *understand* the code. (Yes, it is possible to start new
projects without PE, but some things like FFTs are now only supplied
as beans in PE.)

There are many cheap (but not free) excellent tools around these days
for other processors that are superbly supported, and are not hugely
bloated like Codewarrior is. I do not at all resent paying a few
hundred pounds for good software. I would much rather pay for
something that's good, than something that is free, but poor to the
point of making me want to switch processor. (Something that a friend
of mine actually did.)

What's even more frustrating is that the processors themselves are
really rather good and tremendous value for money.

It will be very interesting to see how good Cosmic's 56F8xxx tool is.
I think it could give the Freescale DSPs a new lease of life.



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