Hi all, I have build a simulation system to test my Error Correcting Code. And now I add modulation/demodulation module. When I apply BPSK and QPSK to system, I found their BER versus SNR curve almost identical, is it right in theory? My code rate is 0.9, code length >10000. BTW, I found BPSK and QPSK have identical uncoded BER versus SNR curve, is above similar? Any suggestions will be appreciated! Best regards, Davy

# BPSK and QPSK have identical BER curve ?

Started by ●March 5, 2006

Posted by ●March 5, 2006

Davy said the following on 05/03/2006 11:55:> Hi all, > I have build a simulation system to test my Error Correcting Code. > And now I add modulation/demodulation module. > > When I apply BPSK and QPSK to system, I found their BER versus SNR > curve almost identical, is it right in theory? > > My code rate is 0.9, code length >10000. > > BTW, I found BPSK and QPSK have identical uncoded BER versus SNR curve, > is above similar? >QPSK can be regarded as a pair of orthogonal BPSK systems, i.e. the real component is one BPSK system, the imaginary component is the second BPSK system. Because they are orthogonal, they don't interfere (to a good approximation), hence the BER curves are largely equivalent. -- Oli

Posted by ●March 5, 2006

Posted by ●March 5, 2006

"Oli Filth"wrote in message news:LrAOf.27232$bw1.7185@newsfe2-win.ntli.net... > Davy said the following on 05/03/2006 11:55: >> Hi all, >> I have build a simulation system to test my Error Correcting Code. >> And now I add modulation/demodulation module. >> >> When I apply BPSK and QPSK to system, I found their BER versus SNR >> curve almost identical, is it right in theory? >> >> My code rate is 0.9, code length >10000. >> >> BTW, I found BPSK and QPSK have identical uncoded BER versus SNR curve, >> is above similar? >> > > QPSK can be regarded as a pair of orthogonal BPSK systems, i.e. the real > component is one BPSK system, the imaginary component is the second BPSK > system. Because they are orthogonal, they don't interfere (to a good > approximation), hence the BER curves are largely equivalent. >If you plot Eb/No vs probability of bit error. But you expect to see same PeBit for QPSK when the SNR is 3.01 dB higher than for BPSK because, at the same symbol rate, they occupy the same bandwidth and the signal energy needs to be twice as big for QPSK to have the same energy per bit as BPSK. Best of luck - Mike

Posted by ●March 7, 2006

Hi, The probability of bit error of both the systems are equal with channel coding and without channel coding. If you derive analytical expression for BER with channel coding, both have the same expression. Best Regards, -SaiRamesh.

Posted by ●March 8, 2006

>....but you expect to see same PeBit for QPSK when the SNR is 3.01 dB higher >than for BPSK because, at the same symbol rate, they occupy the same >bandwidth and the signal energy needs to be twice as big for QPSK to have >the same energy per bit as BPSK.While the above is a perfectly true statement, it glosses over the fact that the BPSK system conveys one bit per symbol interval, whereas the QPSK system conveys two bits per symbol interval. If the *symbol* rate is the same (i.e. the bandwidth is the same) and the signal power is the same for both systems, then the QPSK system has smaller Eb/No ratio and therefore poorer error-rate performance (as noted above), but double the data rate (in bits per second). If the *bit* rate is the same and the signal power is the same, then both systems have the same BER but the BPSK system uses twice the bandwidth. In comparing apples and oranges, it is best to set the apples to equal one another and compare the oranges, or set the oranges equal to one another and compare the apples....

Posted by ●March 8, 2006

>....but you expect to see same PeBit for QPSK when the SNR is 3.01 dB higher >than for BPSK because, at the same symbol rate, they occupy the same >bandwidth and the signal energy needs to be twice as big for QPSK to have >the same energy per bit as BPSK.While the above is a perfectly true statement, it glosses over the fact that the BPSK system conveys one bit per symbol interval, whereas the QPSK system conveys two bits per symbol interval. If the *symbol* rate is the same (i.e. the bandwidth is the same) and the signal power is the same for both systems, then the QPSK system has smaller Eb/No ratio and therefore poorer error-rate performance (as noted above), but double the data rate (in bits per second). If the *bit* rate is the same and the signal power is the same, then both systems have the same BER but the BPSK system uses twice the bandwidth. In comparing apples and oranges, it is best to set the apples to equal one another and compare the oranges, or set the oranges equal to one another and compare the apples....

Posted by ●March 7, 2006

Hi, The probability of bit error of both the systems are equal with channel coding and without channel coding. If you derive analytical expression for BER with channel coding, both have the same expression. Best Regards, -SaiRamesh.

Posted by ●March 5, 2006

"Oli Filth"wrote in message news:LrAOf.27232$bw1.7185@newsfe2-win.ntli.net... > Davy said the following on 05/03/2006 11:55: >> Hi all, >> I have build a simulation system to test my Error Correcting Code. >> And now I add modulation/demodulation module. >> >> When I apply BPSK and QPSK to system, I found their BER versus SNR >> curve almost identical, is it right in theory? >> >> My code rate is 0.9, code length >10000. >> >> BTW, I found BPSK and QPSK have identical uncoded BER versus SNR curve, >> is above similar? >> > > QPSK can be regarded as a pair of orthogonal BPSK systems, i.e. the real > component is one BPSK system, the imaginary component is the second BPSK > system. Because they are orthogonal, they don't interfere (to a good > approximation), hence the BER curves are largely equivalent. >If you plot Eb/No vs probability of bit error. But you expect to see same PeBit for QPSK when the SNR is 3.01 dB higher than for BPSK because, at the same symbol rate, they occupy the same bandwidth and the signal energy needs to be twice as big for QPSK to have the same energy per bit as BPSK. Best of luck - Mike

Posted by ●March 5, 2006

Posted by ●March 5, 2006

Davy said the following on 05/03/2006 11:55:> Hi all, > I have build a simulation system to test my Error Correcting Code. > And now I add modulation/demodulation module. > > When I apply BPSK and QPSK to system, I found their BER versus SNR > curve almost identical, is it right in theory? > > My code rate is 0.9, code length >10000. > > BTW, I found BPSK and QPSK have identical uncoded BER versus SNR curve, > is above similar? >QPSK can be regarded as a pair of orthogonal BPSK systems, i.e. the real component is one BPSK system, the imaginary component is the second BPSK system. Because they are orthogonal, they don't interfere (to a good approximation), hence the BER curves are largely equivalent. -- Oli

Posted by ●March 5, 2006

Hi all, I have build a simulation system to test my Error Correcting Code. And now I add modulation/demodulation module. When I apply BPSK and QPSK to system, I found their BER versus SNR curve almost identical, is it right in theory? My code rate is 0.9, code length >10000. BTW, I found BPSK and QPSK have identical uncoded BER versus SNR curve, is above similar? Any suggestions will be appreciated! Best regards, Davy