"Rune Allnor" <allnor@tele.ntnu.no> wrote in message 
news:92686704-7469-4fd6-9ca7-223b3e3de721@u10g2000vbd.googlegroups.com...
One of the most fascinating flying I've ever seen, was some
stormbirds

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fulmarus_glacialis

playing in 5-10 meter high waves at the open sea.

The birds cruised whatever airflows existed a mere 50-100 cm
from the water surface, keeping the wing tips a mere couple of
centimeters from the water. These particular birds could not
have used vision to judge the distance from the water, as they
would have had to stare directly at the sea surface to get
stereographic vision.

I can only assume that there is some sort of near-surface
effects near the water surface that the birds can sense through
the feathers at the tips of the wings.

If a stormbird can sense those airflow effects, mosquitos
would likely sense them too. Near objects that disrupt the
airflow.

==========
Yeah, I can watch them for hours, marvelling at their dogfighting and 
soaring prowess. But I don't think it's the same thing as a mosquito homing 
in on CO2 sources. A dog's nose as it tracks a scent is likely closer. I 
don't see the need to invent a new sense to explain the mosquitos' ability. 
As for the birds skimming the wavetops, I think I could do that using 
ordinary old eyeballs (and suitable wings, of course). No need to invent a 
new proximity sense to explain that ability. Indeed, a short range proximity 
sensor won't give enough "look ahead" to respond usefully. (On the other 
hand, nape of the earth flying benefits from a radar altimeter. I just don't 
see it being necessary to explain the gull's ability to fly low and close to 
the surface.)

On 2 Mai, 08:46, HardySpicer <gyansor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 30, 11:56&#4294967295;pm, Rune Allnor <all...@tele.ntnu.no> wrote:
>
> > On 1 Mai, 05:04, HardySpicer <gyansor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Here's a good question, how do insects see in the dark? Say a mosquito
> > > - do they have infra read?
>
> > Don't know how reliable it is, but the word around here
> > is that mosquitos locate potential targets from the target's
> > CO emissions. There are, apparently, a couple of other
> > factors as well, like that the mosquitos are more inclined to
> > go for dark-colored targets than light-color targets (I suppose
> > furs of the mammals around here tend to be dark). Locating
> > targets from CO would certainly work any time of day. Or night.
>
> > Rune
>
> Yes but you would bump into objects on the way.
>
> Hardy

Not necessarily.

One of the most fascinating flying I've ever seen, was some
stormbirds

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fulmarus_glacialis

playing in 5-10 meter high waves at the open sea.

The birds cruised whatever airflows existed a mere 50-100 cm
from the water surface, keeping the wing tips a mere couple of
centimeters from the water. These particular birds could not
have used vision to judge the distance from the water, as they
would have had to stare directly at the sea surface to get
stereographic vision.

I can only assume that there is some sort of near-surface
effects near the water surface that the birds can sense through
the feathers at the tips of the wings.

If a stormbird can sense those airflow effects, mosquitos
would likely sense them too. Near objects that disrupt the
airflow.

Rune

On Apr 30, 11:56&#4294967295;pm, Rune Allnor <all...@tele.ntnu.no> wrote:
> On 1 Mai, 05:04, HardySpicer <gyansor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Here's a good question, how do insects see in the dark? Say a mosquito
> > - do they have infra read?
>
> Don't know how reliable it is, but the word around here
> is that mosquitos locate potential targets from the target's
> CO emissions. There are, apparently, a couple of other
> factors as well, like that the mosquitos are more inclined to
> go for dark-colored targets than light-color targets (I suppose
> furs of the mammals around here tend to be dark). Locating
> targets from CO would certainly work any time of day. Or night.
>
> Rune

Yes but you would bump into objects on the way.


Hardy

HardySpicer wrote:

   ...

> Here's a good question, how do insects see in the dark? Say a mosquito
> - do they have infra read?

There's a critical assumption here: that mosquitoes see in the dark. Is 
there any supporting evidence? (Mosquitoes find their victims by 
following the carbon dioxide gradient produced by respiration.)

Jerry
-- 
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
�����������������������������������������������������������������������

On 1 Mai, 13:10, Richard Owlett <rowl...@atlascomm.net> wrote:
> Rune Allnor wrote:
> > On 1 Mai, 05:04, HardySpicer <gyansor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>Here's a good question, how do insects see in the dark? Say a mosquito
> >>- do they have infra read?
>
> > Don't know how reliable it is, but the word around here
> > is that mosquitos locate potential targets from the target's
> > CO emissions. There are, apparently, a couple of other
> > factors as well, like that the mosquitos are more inclined to
> > go for dark-colored targets than light-color targets (I suppose
> > furs of the mammals around here tend to be dark). Locating
> > targets from CO would certainly work any time of day. Or night.
>
> > Rune
>
> Bet you meant CO2 ;/

Ah. Yes. CO would indicate that the mammal would
better be food for scavengers, not mosquitos.

CO is only generated when something burns, right?

Rune

Rune Allnor wrote:
> On 1 Mai, 05:04, HardySpicer <gyansor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Here's a good question, how do insects see in the dark? Say a mosquito
>>- do they have infra read?
> 
> 
> Don't know how reliable it is, but the word around here
> is that mosquitos locate potential targets from the target's
> CO emissions. There are, apparently, a couple of other
> factors as well, like that the mosquitos are more inclined to
> go for dark-colored targets than light-color targets (I suppose
> furs of the mammals around here tend to be dark). Locating
> targets from CO would certainly work any time of day. Or night.
> 
> Rune

Bet you meant CO2 ;/

On 1 Mai, 05:04, HardySpicer <gyansor...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Here's a good question, how do insects see in the dark? Say a mosquito
> - do they have infra read?

Don't know how reliable it is, but the word around here
is that mosquitos locate potential targets from the target's
CO emissions. There are, apparently, a couple of other
factors as well, like that the mosquitos are more inclined to
go for dark-colored targets than light-color targets (I suppose
furs of the mammals around here tend to be dark). Locating
targets from CO would certainly work any time of day. Or night.

Rune

On May 1, 2:37�am, c...@claysturner.com wrote:
> On Apr 30, 10:28&#4294967295;am, Rune Allnor <all...@tele.ntnu.no> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 30 Apr, 16:21, Jerry Avins <j...@ieee.org> wrote:
>
> > > Rune Allnor wrote:
> > > > On 30 Apr, 14:47, "lapidarylee" <Ryan_...@ali.com.tw> wrote:
> > > >> Hi
>
> > > >> supersonic localization tech is widely used in many field,
>
> > > > What's that? Do you know any on-line descriptions?
>
> > > >> &#4294967295;does it apply
> > > >> to sound source localization ?!
>
> > > > 'Supersonic' necessarily relates to sound sources...
>
> > > > Apart from that, using acoustics to locate objects
> > > > travelling at supersonic speeds is not at all easy.
> > > > First of all, they travel so fast that by the time
> > > > your sensor(s) locate the sound, the source has
> > > > travelled a very long distance.
>
> > > > Second, the angle between the shock wave and the
> > > > path of travel depends on the speed of the object.
> > > > So you need to know at least the speed of the source
> > > > (and maybe more parameters) to work out the location.
>
> > > I think he actually means ultrasonic. Confusing the words is a common
> > > error.
>
> > Maybe you're right. If so, I wouldn't have guessed.
>
> > > Most ultrasonic location techniques I know of are effectively
> > > sonar, so maybe he means what he wrote.
>
> > Well... ultrasonic localization of *objects* is wide-spread,
> > but I can't remember having heard about localizations of
> > ultrasonic *sources*. Possibly except for bats.
>
> > Rune- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Cats do it quite well - adults hear up to 60kHz, kittens even higher.
> Cats locate moles and other rodents this way.
>
> Clay

Here's a good question, how do insects see in the dark? Say a mosquito
- do they have infra read?


Hardy

On Apr 30, 10:28&#4294967295;am, Rune Allnor <all...@tele.ntnu.no> wrote:
> On 30 Apr, 16:21, Jerry Avins <j...@ieee.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Rune Allnor wrote:
> > > On 30 Apr, 14:47, "lapidarylee" <Ryan_...@ali.com.tw> wrote:
> > >> Hi
>
> > >> supersonic localization tech is widely used in many field,
>
> > > What's that? Do you know any on-line descriptions?
>
> > >> &#4294967295;does it apply
> > >> to sound source localization ?!
>
> > > 'Supersonic' necessarily relates to sound sources...
>
> > > Apart from that, using acoustics to locate objects
> > > travelling at supersonic speeds is not at all easy.
> > > First of all, they travel so fast that by the time
> > > your sensor(s) locate the sound, the source has
> > > travelled a very long distance.
>
> > > Second, the angle between the shock wave and the
> > > path of travel depends on the speed of the object.
> > > So you need to know at least the speed of the source
> > > (and maybe more parameters) to work out the location.
>
> > I think he actually means ultrasonic. Confusing the words is a common
> > error.
>
> Maybe you're right. If so, I wouldn't have guessed.
>
> > Most ultrasonic location techniques I know of are effectively
> > sonar, so maybe he means what he wrote.
>
> Well... ultrasonic localization of *objects* is wide-spread,
> but I can't remember having heard about localizations of
> ultrasonic *sources*. Possibly except for bats.
>
> Rune- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Cats do it quite well - adults hear up to 60kHz, kittens even higher.
Cats locate moles and other rodents this way.

Clay

On Apr 30, 10:28=A0am, Rune Allnor <all...@tele.ntnu.no> wrote:
> On 30 Apr, 16:21, Jerry Avins <j...@ieee.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Rune Allnor wrote:
> > > On 30 Apr, 14:47, "lapidarylee" <Ryan_...@ali.com.tw> wrote:
> > >> Hi
>
> > >> supersonic localization tech is widely used in many field,
>
> > > What's that? Do you know any on-line descriptions?
>
> > >> =A0does it apply
> > >> to sound source localization ?!
>
> > > 'Supersonic' necessarily relates to sound sources...
>
> > > Apart from that, using acoustics to locate objects
> > > travelling at supersonic speeds is not at all easy.
> > > First of all, they travel so fast that by the time
> > > your sensor(s) locate the sound, the source has
> > > travelled a very long distance.
>
> > > Second, the angle between the shock wave and the
> > > path of travel depends on the speed of the object.
> > > So you need to know at least the speed of the source
> > > (and maybe more parameters) to work out the location.
>
> > I think he actually means ultrasonic. Confusing the words is a common
> > error.
>
> Maybe you're right. If so, I wouldn't have guessed.
>
> > Most ultrasonic location techniques I know of are effectively
> > sonar, so maybe he means what he wrote.
>
> Well... ultrasonic localization of *objects* is wide-spread,
> but I can't remember having heard about localizations of
> ultrasonic *sources*. Possibly except for bats.
>
> Rune- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Cats do it quite well - adults hear up to 60kHz, kittens even higher.
Cats locate moles and other rodents this way.

Clay