In the sound engineering / recording world, we say a signal is
'coloured' if the system leans toward an undesirable response of any
sort - i.e. a nasty freq / phase response, e.g. the effect of a dry
solder joint or a cheap microphone.  It's analogous to a purple lens
filter, so a Neumann U89 is like one of those big gluey gorgeous
looking Leica lenses : )

>>>>>>On Nov 2, 2:57=A0pm, HardySpicer <gyansor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Nov 3, 6:40=A0am, "pacman101" <janpac01@n_o_s_p_a_m.yahoo.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > Hello,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > I would just like to clarify what people mean when they say a
>>>signal
>>>>>is
>>>>>>> > colored? =A0
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > My assumption is it means white gaussian noise is added to the
>>>>signal,
>>>>>=
>>>>>>but
>>>>>>> > I just want this to be clarified.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > Thank you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It means they have spent coloured wrongly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hardy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Irony? :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>To address the OP, white is used to describe signals with a flat
>power
>>>>>>spectral density throughout the frequency range of interest. The
term
>>>>>>white of course comes from our understanding (somewhat of a
>>>>>>misconception) of visible light, where perfectly white light is a
>>>>>>superposition of all visible light frequencies with equal weighting
>>>>>>(that is equal amplitude not necessarily phase). Of course in
>reality,
>>>>>>while what I just said is true, we only need to have the three
>>>>>>different types of cones in our eyes stimulated equally to see white
>>>>>>light, so there are theoretically infinite number of combinations of
>>>>>>frequencies that can produce white light. But I digress...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Colored, in the sense of "colored noise" or a "coloring filter" is
>>>>>>anything that does not have a flat power spectral density, or a
>filter
>>>>>>that takes a white signal in, and produces a non-white output. This
>>>>>>distortion would be considered "coloring" the signal.
>>>>>>>
>>>>Yes. Usually when applied to a comms channel, and the flatness of the
>>>>signal spectral across that channel.
>>>>
>>>>If you have been reading about LMS and NLMS you should have already
>>found
>>>>why a reasonably flat spectrum around the adaption loop matters.
>>>>
>>>>Steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Steve
>>>>
>>>
>>>So would it be better if I go with Affine Projection?  How about
>>>Gradient-adaptive learning algorithms?  I haven't thoroughly studied
>>these
>>>more complex algorithms yet.
>>
>>If you haven't studied them, why would you pre-suppose they offer an
>>improvement in this particular area? How about applying a little science
>>and engineering, instead of picking up on the spiel from the marketing
>>dept.
>>
>>Steve
>>
>>
>
>Steve,
>
>There is only so much time in the world and not to mention we all have to
>meet deadlines.  Unfortunately I am no subject matter expert and in order
>to save some time asking questions can alleviate some of the confusion. 
>Science and engineering takes quite a bit of precious hours, and
sometimes
>asking a question where there are subject matter experts can ease some of
>the pressure.  Believe me I do my homework, but when I can't understand
>something I just gotta ask.  Thanks for all the helpful information
you've
>given thus far.  They all have been very helpful.  

If you want to use algorithms without understanding their strengths,
weaknesses, and obscure quirks just make sure those deadlines don't include
"field proven" as a criterion. All you should expect from a forum like this
is a few pointers in appropriate directions.

Steve

>>>>>On Nov 2, 2:57=A0pm, HardySpicer <gyansor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Nov 3, 6:40=A0am, "pacman101" <janpac01@n_o_s_p_a_m.yahoo.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Hello,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > I would just like to clarify what people mean when they say a
>>signal
>>>>is
>>>>>> > colored? =A0
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > My assumption is it means white gaussian noise is added to the
>>>signal,
>>>>=
>>>>>but
>>>>>> > I just want this to be clarified.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Thank you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It means they have spent coloured wrongly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hardy
>>>>>
>>>>>Irony? :)
>>>>>
>>>>>To address the OP, white is used to describe signals with a flat
power
>>>>>spectral density throughout the frequency range of interest. The term
>>>>>white of course comes from our understanding (somewhat of a
>>>>>misconception) of visible light, where perfectly white light is a
>>>>>superposition of all visible light frequencies with equal weighting
>>>>>(that is equal amplitude not necessarily phase). Of course in
reality,
>>>>>while what I just said is true, we only need to have the three
>>>>>different types of cones in our eyes stimulated equally to see white
>>>>>light, so there are theoretically infinite number of combinations of
>>>>>frequencies that can produce white light. But I digress...
>>>>>
>>>>>Colored, in the sense of "colored noise" or a "coloring filter" is
>>>>>anything that does not have a flat power spectral density, or a
filter
>>>>>that takes a white signal in, and produces a non-white output. This
>>>>>distortion would be considered "coloring" the signal.
>>>>>>
>>>Yes. Usually when applied to a comms channel, and the flatness of the
>>>signal spectral across that channel.
>>>
>>>If you have been reading about LMS and NLMS you should have already
>found
>>>why a reasonably flat spectrum around the adaption loop matters.
>>>
>>>Steve
>>>
>>>
>>>Steve
>>>
>>
>>So would it be better if I go with Affine Projection?  How about
>>Gradient-adaptive learning algorithms?  I haven't thoroughly studied
>these
>>more complex algorithms yet.
>
>If you haven't studied them, why would you pre-suppose they offer an
>improvement in this particular area? How about applying a little science
>and engineering, instead of picking up on the spiel from the marketing
>dept.
>
>Steve
>
>

Steve,

There is only so much time in the world and not to mention we all have to
meet deadlines.  Unfortunately I am no subject matter expert and in order
to save some time asking questions can alleviate some of the confusion. 
Science and engineering takes quite a bit of precious hours, and sometimes
asking a question where there are subject matter experts can ease some of
the pressure.  Believe me I do my homework, but when I can't understand
something I just gotta ask.  Thanks for all the helpful information you've
given thus far.  They all have been very helpful.  

>>>>On Nov 2, 2:57=A0pm, HardySpicer <gyansor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Nov 3, 6:40=A0am, "pacman101" <janpac01@n_o_s_p_a_m.yahoo.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> > I would just like to clarify what people mean when they say a
>signal
>>>is
>>>>> > colored? =A0
>>>>>
>>>>> > My assumption is it means white gaussian noise is added to the
>>signal,
>>>=
>>>>but
>>>>> > I just want this to be clarified.
>>>>>
>>>>> > Thank you.
>>>>>
>>>>> It means they have spent coloured wrongly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hardy
>>>>
>>>>Irony? :)
>>>>
>>>>To address the OP, white is used to describe signals with a flat power
>>>>spectral density throughout the frequency range of interest. The term
>>>>white of course comes from our understanding (somewhat of a
>>>>misconception) of visible light, where perfectly white light is a
>>>>superposition of all visible light frequencies with equal weighting
>>>>(that is equal amplitude not necessarily phase). Of course in reality,
>>>>while what I just said is true, we only need to have the three
>>>>different types of cones in our eyes stimulated equally to see white
>>>>light, so there are theoretically infinite number of combinations of
>>>>frequencies that can produce white light. But I digress...
>>>>
>>>>Colored, in the sense of "colored noise" or a "coloring filter" is
>>>>anything that does not have a flat power spectral density, or a filter
>>>>that takes a white signal in, and produces a non-white output. This
>>>>distortion would be considered "coloring" the signal.
>>>>>
>>Yes. Usually when applied to a comms channel, and the flatness of the
>>signal spectral across that channel.
>>
>>If you have been reading about LMS and NLMS you should have already
found
>>why a reasonably flat spectrum around the adaption loop matters.
>>
>>Steve
>>
>>
>>Steve
>>
>
>So would it be better if I go with Affine Projection?  How about
>Gradient-adaptive learning algorithms?  I haven't thoroughly studied
these
>more complex algorithms yet.

If you haven't studied them, why would you pre-suppose they offer an
improvement in this particular area? How about applying a little science
and engineering, instead of picking up on the spiel from the marketing
dept.

Steve

On Nov 3, 6:28&#4294967295;am, "pacman101" <janpac01@n_o_s_p_a_m.yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Nov 2, 2:57=A0pm, HardySpicer <gyansor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Nov 3, 6:40=A0am, "pacman101" <janpac01@n_o_s_p_a_m.yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >> > Hello,
>
> >> > I would just like to clarify what people mean when they say a signal
> is
> >> > colored? =A0
>
> >> > My assumption is it means white gaussian noise is added to the signal,
> =
> >but
> >> > I just want this to be clarified.
>
> >> > Thank you.
>
> >> It means they have spent coloured wrongly.
>
> >> Hardy
>
> >Irony? :)
>
> >To address the OP, white is used to describe signals with a flat power
> >spectral density throughout the frequency range of interest. The term
> >white of course comes from our understanding (somewhat of a
> >misconception) of visible light, where perfectly white light is a
> >superposition of all visible light frequencies with equal weighting
> >(that is equal amplitude not necessarily phase). Of course in reality,
> >while what I just said is true, we only need to have the three
> >different types of cones in our eyes stimulated equally to see white
> >light, so there are theoretically infinite number of combinations of
> >frequencies that can produce white light. But I digress...
>
> >Colored, in the sense of "colored noise" or a "coloring filter" is
> >anything that does not have a flat power spectral density, or a filter
> >that takes a white signal in, and produces a non-white output. This
> >distortion would be considered "coloring" the signal.
>
> I am trying to relate what colored signals mean in RF. &#4294967295;One of the reasons
> this question is important to me is that literature states that in adaptive
> filtering, when colored signals are the signals passing through the
> reference channel, the performance of LMS and NLMS is poor. &#4294967295;I am trying
> noise cancellation in RF and I noticed that when I put an attenuator in my
> reference channel, the performance is worse. &#4294967295;As of right now I am using
> bandlimited white gaussian noise as the interferer to cancel out. &#4294967295;So can
> coloring be applied to RF?

Why does it make a difference if it's "RF"? RF is just a blanket term
to describe (very loosely) a particular frequency range. What I
described above made no mention of specific frequency ranges, only
power spectral density shape.

>>>On Nov 2, 2:57=A0pm, HardySpicer <gyansor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Nov 3, 6:40=A0am, "pacman101" <janpac01@n_o_s_p_a_m.yahoo.com>
>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Hello,
>>>>
>>>> > I would just like to clarify what people mean when they say a
signal
>>is
>>>> > colored? =A0
>>>>
>>>> > My assumption is it means white gaussian noise is added to the
>signal,
>>=
>>>but
>>>> > I just want this to be clarified.
>>>>
>>>> > Thank you.
>>>>
>>>> It means they have spent coloured wrongly.
>>>>
>>>> Hardy
>>>
>>>Irony? :)
>>>
>>>To address the OP, white is used to describe signals with a flat power
>>>spectral density throughout the frequency range of interest. The term
>>>white of course comes from our understanding (somewhat of a
>>>misconception) of visible light, where perfectly white light is a
>>>superposition of all visible light frequencies with equal weighting
>>>(that is equal amplitude not necessarily phase). Of course in reality,
>>>while what I just said is true, we only need to have the three
>>>different types of cones in our eyes stimulated equally to see white
>>>light, so there are theoretically infinite number of combinations of
>>>frequencies that can produce white light. But I digress...
>>>
>>>Colored, in the sense of "colored noise" or a "coloring filter" is
>>>anything that does not have a flat power spectral density, or a filter
>>>that takes a white signal in, and produces a non-white output. This
>>>distortion would be considered "coloring" the signal.
>>>>
>Yes. Usually when applied to a comms channel, and the flatness of the
>signal spectral across that channel.
>
>If you have been reading about LMS and NLMS you should have already found
>why a reasonably flat spectrum around the adaption loop matters.
>
>Steve
>
>
>Steve
>

So would it be better if I go with Affine Projection?  How about
Gradient-adaptive learning algorithms?  I haven't thoroughly studied these
more complex algorithms yet.  

>>On Nov 2, 2:57=A0pm, HardySpicer <gyansor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Nov 3, 6:40=A0am, "pacman101" <janpac01@n_o_s_p_a_m.yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>>>
>>> > Hello,
>>>
>>> > I would just like to clarify what people mean when they say a signal
>is
>>> > colored? =A0
>>>
>>> > My assumption is it means white gaussian noise is added to the
signal,
>=
>>but
>>> > I just want this to be clarified.
>>>
>>> > Thank you.
>>>
>>> It means they have spent coloured wrongly.
>>>
>>> Hardy
>>
>>Irony? :)
>>
>>To address the OP, white is used to describe signals with a flat power
>>spectral density throughout the frequency range of interest. The term
>>white of course comes from our understanding (somewhat of a
>>misconception) of visible light, where perfectly white light is a
>>superposition of all visible light frequencies with equal weighting
>>(that is equal amplitude not necessarily phase). Of course in reality,
>>while what I just said is true, we only need to have the three
>>different types of cones in our eyes stimulated equally to see white
>>light, so there are theoretically infinite number of combinations of
>>frequencies that can produce white light. But I digress...
>>
>>Colored, in the sense of "colored noise" or a "coloring filter" is
>>anything that does not have a flat power spectral density, or a filter
>>that takes a white signal in, and produces a non-white output. This
>>distortion would be considered "coloring" the signal.
>>
>
>I am trying to relate what colored signals mean in RF.  One of the
reasons
>this question is important to me is that literature states that in
adaptive
>filtering, when colored signals are the signals passing through the
>reference channel, the performance of LMS and NLMS is poor.  I am trying
>noise cancellation in RF and I noticed that when I put an attenuator in
my
>reference channel, the performance is worse.  As of right now I am using
>bandlimited white gaussian noise as the interferer to cancel out.  So can
>coloring be applied to RF?

Yes. Usually when applied to a comms channel, and the flatness of the
signal spectral across that channel.

If you have been reading about LMS and NLMS you should have already found
why a reasonably flat spectrum around the adaption loop matters.

Steve


Steve

>On Nov 2, 2:57=A0pm, HardySpicer <gyansor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Nov 3, 6:40=A0am, "pacman101" <janpac01@n_o_s_p_a_m.yahoo.com>
wrote:
>>
>> > Hello,
>>
>> > I would just like to clarify what people mean when they say a signal
is
>> > colored? =A0
>>
>> > My assumption is it means white gaussian noise is added to the signal,
=
>but
>> > I just want this to be clarified.
>>
>> > Thank you.
>>
>> It means they have spent coloured wrongly.
>>
>> Hardy
>
>Irony? :)
>
>To address the OP, white is used to describe signals with a flat power
>spectral density throughout the frequency range of interest. The term
>white of course comes from our understanding (somewhat of a
>misconception) of visible light, where perfectly white light is a
>superposition of all visible light frequencies with equal weighting
>(that is equal amplitude not necessarily phase). Of course in reality,
>while what I just said is true, we only need to have the three
>different types of cones in our eyes stimulated equally to see white
>light, so there are theoretically infinite number of combinations of
>frequencies that can produce white light. But I digress...
>
>Colored, in the sense of "colored noise" or a "coloring filter" is
>anything that does not have a flat power spectral density, or a filter
>that takes a white signal in, and produces a non-white output. This
>distortion would be considered "coloring" the signal.
>

I am trying to relate what colored signals mean in RF.  One of the reasons
this question is important to me is that literature states that in adaptive
filtering, when colored signals are the signals passing through the
reference channel, the performance of LMS and NLMS is poor.  I am trying
noise cancellation in RF and I noticed that when I put an attenuator in my
reference channel, the performance is worse.  As of right now I am using
bandlimited white gaussian noise as the interferer to cancel out.  So can
coloring be applied to RF?

On Nov 2, 2:57&#4294967295;pm, HardySpicer <gyansor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 3, 6:40&#4294967295;am, "pacman101" <janpac01@n_o_s_p_a_m.yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
>
> > I would just like to clarify what people mean when they say a signal is
> > colored? &#4294967295;
>
> > My assumption is it means white gaussian noise is added to the signal, but
> > I just want this to be clarified.
>
> > Thank you.
>
> It means they have spent coloured wrongly.
>
> Hardy

Irony? :)

To address the OP, white is used to describe signals with a flat power
spectral density throughout the frequency range of interest. The term
white of course comes from our understanding (somewhat of a
misconception) of visible light, where perfectly white light is a
superposition of all visible light frequencies with equal weighting
(that is equal amplitude not necessarily phase). Of course in reality,
while what I just said is true, we only need to have the three
different types of cones in our eyes stimulated equally to see white
light, so there are theoretically infinite number of combinations of
frequencies that can produce white light. But I digress...

Colored, in the sense of "colored noise" or a "coloring filter" is
anything that does not have a flat power spectral density, or a filter
that takes a white signal in, and produces a non-white output. This
distortion would be considered "coloring" the signal.

On Nov 3, 6:40&#4294967295;am, "pacman101" <janpac01@n_o_s_p_a_m.yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I would just like to clarify what people mean when they say a signal is
> colored? &#4294967295;
>
> My assumption is it means white gaussian noise is added to the signal, but
> I just want this to be clarified.
>
> Thank you.

It means they have spent coloured wrongly.

Hardy