On Tue, 30 Aug 2011 00:42:04 +0000, bah <flabbar2@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 8/29/2011 11:50 PM, HardySpicer wrote:
>> On Aug 30, 7:37 am, bah<flabb...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>> I am using pure data.
>>>
>>> I am using -- kick, snare, hats to create a simple beat with a bassline.
>>>
>>> But for some reason, each instrument does _not_ sound the like the one i
>>> listen in, say dnb music.
>>>
>>> I have added reverb to each instrument but still there is no change.
>>> They sound too hollow and artificial.
>>>
>>>   From what I can gather,
>>> I should be using a
>>> 1) EQ filter
>>> 2) A constant ambient base
>>>
>>> Is this the way to go ? Or am i a completely lost dog ?
>>
>> You're not close enough to the edge man. Lie back and feel the groove
>> and chill out..
>
>But some beats keep popping in my head ! (don't ask me why ;)
>
>At first I was like -- yeah right
>And then, I was like ... y the fuck not ?

bah, have you taken your medication today?

[-Rick-]

On 30/08/2011 02:16, robert bristow-johnson wrote:
> On 8/29/11 5:07 PM, bah wrote:
...
>>
>> It is a graphical programming language for DSP --
>> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Pure_Data
>
> i never saw that wikipage before and i don't think i heard of the
> product but i certainly know of Miller Puckette.
>

It is a very widely used multi-platform package (both by composers and 
in academic institutions), which may be described very loosely as a 
"free version of Max/MSP". Miller has written his own book describing 
it, and most recently Andy Farnell (who is on the musicdsp list) has 
published a book on sound design using PD (MIT Press).

>>
>> I was just trying to create a simple beat that was banging in my head.
>> (don't ask me why i picked pd of all the damn things !)
>>
>

This seems to be a general sound design question. Translating 
imagination into reality is often (usually?) far from trivial. There are 
several mailing lists dedicated to PD, see:
http://puredata.info/community/lists

It may well be, for example, that you are "imagining" the sounds of, 
say, the classic Roland TR-808 drum machine. The sounds are in one sense 
relatively primitive analogue emulations of drums, but while many 
composers assume to use samples of real instruments these days, the 808 
sounds are fundamental to many contermporary genres, including d&b. 
Sample libraries exist of course, and some software emulations, and it 
is very possible that some PD user has constructed some; people on those 
lists will know.

Richard Dobson

On 8/29/11 5:07 PM, bah wrote:
> It certainly was a vague question.
>
> I am not using samples. I am using Pure Data which creates the sounds
> algorithmatically(?).

wow! are you sure?  that means it *synthesizes* the sound rather than 
any kind of sample playback.  some synthesized drums sound like drums 
(like toms).  i just guessed that the software you were using had some 
samples of instruments.

>
> It is a graphical programming language for DSP --
> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Pure_Data

i never saw that wikipage before and i don't think i heard of the 
product but i certainly know of Miller Puckette.

>
> I was just trying to create a simple beat that was banging in my head.
> (don't ask me why i picked pd of all the damn things !)
>

so it's an issue that the beats you playback from Pure Data don't sound 
like the beats in your *head*?  that, i didn't realize before.  do you 
have access to more effects than reverb and EQ?  like a pitch-shifter 
(with adjustable feedback) or a choruser?  you can also use those to 
fatten up an instrument.

>  > seems like it's buried underneath everything else.
>
> That's exactly what I wanted to say. My beat (a simple 4/4) seems way
> too odd.

like what do you mean?  goofy?  or like 2*n + 1 ?

> In the songs, it seems to be somewhere buried behind the main
> synth. Whereas with my beat, it's too distracting from the main synth.
>

boy, i can't quite decode that.  do you mean it's too loud.

> Thankx for the pointer !
>
> (... silently goes and reads about parametric equalizer .... )

try using the EQ on the main synth to bring it out of the drum beat.
i dunno.

-- 

r b-j                  rbj@audioimagination.com

"Imagination is more important than knowledge."

On 8/29/2011 11:50 PM, HardySpicer wrote:
> On Aug 30, 7:37 am, bah<flabb...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>> I am using pure data.
>>
>> I am using -- kick, snare, hats to create a simple beat with a bassline.
>>
>> But for some reason, each instrument does _not_ sound the like the one i
>> listen in, say dnb music.
>>
>> I have added reverb to each instrument but still there is no change.
>> They sound too hollow and artificial.
>>
>>   From what I can gather,
>> I should be using a
>> 1) EQ filter
>> 2) A constant ambient base
>>
>> Is this the way to go ? Or am i a completely lost dog ?
>
> You're not close enough to the edge man. Lie back and feel the groove
> and chill out..

But some beats keep popping in my head ! (don't ask me why ;)

At first I was like -- yeah right
And then, I was like ... y the fuck not ?

On Aug 30, 7:37&#4294967295;am, bah <flabb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am using pure data.
>
> I am using -- kick, snare, hats to create a simple beat with a bassline.
>
> But for some reason, each instrument does _not_ sound the like the one i
> listen in, say dnb music.
>
> I have added reverb to each instrument but still there is no change.
> They sound too hollow and artificial.
>
> &#4294967295;From what I can gather,
> I should be using a
> 1) EQ filter
> 2) A constant ambient base
>
> Is this the way to go ? Or am i a completely lost dog ?

You're not close enough to the edge man. Lie back and feel the groove
and chill out..

It certainly was a vague question.

I am not using samples. I am using Pure Data which creates the sounds 
algorithmatically(?).

It is a graphical programming language for DSP -- 
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Pure_Data

I was just trying to create a simple beat that was banging in my head.
(don't ask me why i picked pd of all the damn things !)

 > seems like it's buried underneath everything else.

That's exactly what I wanted to say. My beat (a simple 4/4) seems way 
too odd. In the songs, it seems to be somewhere buried behind the main 
synth. Whereas with my beat, it's too distracting from the main synth.

Thankx for the pointer !

(... silently goes and reads about parametric equalizer .... )


On 8/29/2011 8:01 PM, robert bristow-johnson wrote:
> On 8/29/11 3:37 PM, bah wrote:
>> I am using pure data.
>>
>> I am using -- kick, snare, hats to create a simple beat with a bassline.
>>
>> But for some reason, each instrument does _not_ sound the like the one i
>> listen in, say dnb music.
>>
>> I have added reverb to each instrument but still there is no change.
>> They sound too hollow and artificial.
>>
>> From what I can gather,
>> I should be using a
>> 1) EQ filter
>> 2) A constant ambient base
>>
>> Is this the way to go ? Or am i a completely lost dog ?
>>
>
> woof!
>
> you might want to bring this to the music-dsp list:
>
> http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp/
>
> i would say that your question is technically quite subjective and
> vague. and i dunno what you even mean by #2). my understanding is that
> you are playing some sampled sounds in a from outa a MIDI file or some
> drum loop sequencer, right? and it sounds sorta "thin"? are you saying
> that the instruments sound in the loop different than what you hear in
> just playing back the straight sample? that somehow the instrument mix
> sounds artificial while the samples sound good?
>
> one thing that i think that modern drum machines and other sampling
> instruments do is have multiple samples of the same instrument and the
> same hit or note. and when MIDI note-on messages are received and acted
> on, different versions of the same note are chosen at random and output
> to the mix. if you don't do that, i suppose you could have "natural"
> sounding drum hits and the playback sounds less natural. also for the
> same reason, i think that some jitter is added to the launch of the
> sampled note, if this is played from a sound file.
>
> anyway, you can use a parametric EQ filter (a peaking or "presence" EQ
> filter) to sometimes "bring out" a particular instrument that, even
> though it's mixed in sorta loud, seems like it's buried underneath
> everything else. but otherwise, i don't know what exactly seems wrong
> about what you're hearing.
>
>

On 8/29/11 3:37 PM, bah wrote:
> I am using pure data.
>
> I am using -- kick, snare, hats to create a simple beat with a bassline.
>
> But for some reason, each instrument does _not_ sound the like the one i
> listen in, say dnb music.
>
> I have added reverb to each instrument but still there is no change.
> They sound too hollow and artificial.
>
>  From what I can gather,
> I should be using a
> 1) EQ filter
> 2) A constant ambient base
>
> Is this the way to go ? Or am i a completely lost dog ?
>

woof!

you might want to bring this to the music-dsp list:

  http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp/

i would say that your question is technically quite subjective and 
vague.  and i dunno what you even mean by #2).  my understanding is that 
you are playing some sampled sounds in a from outa a MIDI file or some 
drum loop sequencer, right?  and it sounds sorta "thin"?  are you saying 
that the instruments sound in the loop different than what you hear in 
just playing back the straight sample?  that somehow the instrument mix 
sounds artificial while the samples sound good?

one thing that i think that modern drum machines and other sampling 
instruments do is have multiple samples of the same instrument and the 
same hit or note.  and when MIDI note-on messages are received and acted 
on, different versions of the same note are chosen at random and output 
to the mix.  if you don't do that, i suppose you could have "natural" 
sounding drum hits and the playback sounds less natural.  also for the 
same reason, i think that some jitter is added to the launch of the 
sampled note, if this is played from a sound file.

anyway, you can use a parametric EQ filter (a peaking or "presence" EQ 
filter) to sometimes "bring out" a particular instrument that, even 
though it's mixed in sorta loud, seems like it's buried underneath 
everything else.  but otherwise, i don't know what exactly seems wrong 
about what you're hearing.

-- 

r b-j                  rbj@audioimagination.com

"Imagination is more important than knowledge."