On Thu, 6 Jun 2013 17:55:35 -0700 (PDT), brent
<bulegoge@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
>On Jun 5, 3:51�pm, Rick Lyons <R.Lyons@_BOGUS_ieee.org> wrote:
>> On Tue, 04 Jun 2013 15:44:09 -0500, Vladimir Vassilevsky
>>
>>
[Snipped by Lyons]
>>
>> >>> Each bit is no more and no less then any other bit.
>> >>> Not puncturing systematic part is just mere convenience.
>>
>> >> I think you don't understand Turbo Codes.
>>
>> >Haha, 2 x 2 = 4. Jacobsen = pumped up windbag.
>>
>> Ah Vladimir, my friend. �For the last year I have
>> been wondering, ...why do you continue to treat
>> Eric in such a way? �It makes no sense to me.
>>
>> [-Rick-]
>
>He is jealous of Eric's "Minister of Algorithms" title
>
>You can't imagine the number of times I wants to ream Eric out over
>this, but, then I restrain myself because I think "What if he is that
>good?"
Hi brent,
Ha ha. As far as I can tell, Eric "is that good."
[-Rick-]
Reply by brent●June 6, 20132013-06-06
On Jun 5, 3:51�pm, Rick Lyons <R.Lyons@_BOGUS_ieee.org> wrote:
> On Tue, 04 Jun 2013 15:44:09 -0500, Vladimir Vassilevsky
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <nos...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >On 6/4/2013 3:31 PM, Eric Jacobsen wrote:
> >> On Tue, 04 Jun 2013 14:11:28 -0500, Vladimir Vassilevsky
> >> <nos...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> >>> On 6/2/2013 11:39 AM, Eric Jacobsen wrote:
>
> >>>> No, the "dropped", or more correctly, "punctured" bits are replaced
> >>>> with zeros in the decoder. � This allows the degradation in
> >>>> performance due to the puncturing to be traded for the bandwidth taken
> >>>> up by those bits. � Since the systematic bits are not punctured, only
> >>>> the parity bits are affected, which minimizes the performance
> >>>> degradation.
>
> >>> Each bit is no more and no less then any other bit.
> >>> Not puncturing systematic part is just mere convenience.
>
> >> I think you don't understand Turbo Codes.
>
> >Haha, 2 x 2 = 4. Jacobsen = pumped up windbag.
>
> Ah Vladimir, my friend. �For the last year I have
> been wondering, ...why do you continue to treat
> Eric in such a way? �It makes no sense to me.
>
> [-Rick-]
He is jealous of Eric's "Minister of Algorithms" title
You can't imagine the number of times I wants to ream Eric out over
this, but, then I restrain myself because I think "What if he is that
good?"
Reply by Rick Lyons●June 5, 20132013-06-05
On Tue, 04 Jun 2013 15:44:09 -0500, Vladimir Vassilevsky
<nospam@nowhere.com> wrote:
>On 6/4/2013 3:31 PM, Eric Jacobsen wrote:
>> On Tue, 04 Jun 2013 14:11:28 -0500, Vladimir Vassilevsky
>> <nospam@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/2/2013 11:39 AM, Eric Jacobsen wrote:
>>>
>>>> No, the "dropped", or more correctly, "punctured" bits are replaced
>>>> with zeros in the decoder. This allows the degradation in
>>>> performance due to the puncturing to be traded for the bandwidth taken
>>>> up by those bits. Since the systematic bits are not punctured, only
>>>> the parity bits are affected, which minimizes the performance
>>>> degradation.
>>>
>>> Each bit is no more and no less then any other bit.
>>> Not puncturing systematic part is just mere convenience.
>>
>> I think you don't understand Turbo Codes.
>>
>
>Haha, 2 x 2 = 4. Jacobsen = pumped up windbag.
Ah Vladimir, my friend. For the last year I have
been wondering, ...why do you continue to treat
Eric in such a way? It makes no sense to me.
[-Rick-]
Reply by Eric Jacobsen●June 4, 20132013-06-04
On Tue, 4 Jun 2013 11:36:08 -0700 (PDT), RichD
<r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Jun 2, 9eric.jacob...@ieee.org (Eric Jacobsen) wrote:
>> >Followed by turbo coding is the rate matching stage where encoded data a=
>re
>> >dropped.
>> >Now, since decoder operates like machine, will dropping of data not brea=
>k
>> >the decoder algorithm?
>>
>> No, the "dropped", or more correctly, "punctured" bits are replaced
>> with zeros in the decoder. =A0 This allows the degradation in
>> performance due to the puncturing to be traded for the bandwidth taken
>> up by those bits. =A0 Since the systematic bits are not punctured, only
>> the parity bits are affected, which minimizes the performance
>> degradation.
>
>Can you recommend a tutorial paper on turbo coding?
That's a harder one. The original paper from Berrou:
C. Berrou, A. Glavieux, P. Thitimajshima, "Near Shannon limit
error-correcting coding and decoding: Turbo Codes", ICC93, vol. 2, pp.
1064-1070, May 93.
It's not easy reading, it's a just a historical note as the paper that
started everything for Turbo Codes. There was a flurry of
publications in the late 90s and lot of standardization in the 2000s.
Berrou wrote this later:
C. Berrou, "The ten-year-old turbo codes are entering into service",
IEEE Communications Magazine, vol. 41, pp. 110-116, August 03.
I seem to recall Viterbi or Gallager or somebody writing a FEC history
article in a Comm or IT publication a while back, but I can't recall
the details and can't find it. :(
Reply by Vladimir Vassilevsky●June 4, 20132013-06-04
On 6/4/2013 3:31 PM, Eric Jacobsen wrote:
> On Tue, 04 Jun 2013 14:11:28 -0500, Vladimir Vassilevsky
> <nospam@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>> On 6/2/2013 11:39 AM, Eric Jacobsen wrote:
>>
>>> No, the "dropped", or more correctly, "punctured" bits are replaced
>>> with zeros in the decoder. This allows the degradation in
>>> performance due to the puncturing to be traded for the bandwidth taken
>>> up by those bits. Since the systematic bits are not punctured, only
>>> the parity bits are affected, which minimizes the performance
>>> degradation.
>>
>> Each bit is no more and no less then any other bit.
>> Not puncturing systematic part is just mere convenience.
>
> I think you don't understand Turbo Codes.
>
Haha, 2 x 2 = 4. Jacobsen = pumped up windbag.
Reply by Eric Jacobsen●June 4, 20132013-06-04
On Tue, 04 Jun 2013 14:11:28 -0500, Vladimir Vassilevsky
<nospam@nowhere.com> wrote:
>On 6/2/2013 11:39 AM, Eric Jacobsen wrote:
>
>> No, the "dropped", or more correctly, "punctured" bits are replaced
>> with zeros in the decoder. This allows the degradation in
>> performance due to the puncturing to be traded for the bandwidth taken
>> up by those bits. Since the systematic bits are not punctured, only
>> the parity bits are affected, which minimizes the performance
>> degradation.
>
>Each bit is no more and no less then any other bit.
>Not puncturing systematic part is just mere convenience.
I think you don't understand Turbo Codes.
Eric Jacobsen
Anchor Hill Communications
http://www.anchorhill.com
Reply by Vladimir Vassilevsky●June 4, 20132013-06-04
On 6/2/2013 11:39 AM, Eric Jacobsen wrote:
> No, the "dropped", or more correctly, "punctured" bits are replaced
> with zeros in the decoder. This allows the degradation in
> performance due to the puncturing to be traded for the bandwidth taken
> up by those bits. Since the systematic bits are not punctured, only
> the parity bits are affected, which minimizes the performance
> degradation.
Each bit is no more and no less then any other bit.
Not puncturing systematic part is just mere convenience.
VLV
Reply by Vladimir Vassilevsky●June 4, 20132013-06-04
On 6/4/2013 1:36 PM, RichD wrote:
> On Jun 2, 9eric.jacob...@ieee.org (Eric Jacobsen) wrote:
>>> Followed by turbo coding is the rate matching stage where encoded data are
>>> dropped.
>>> Now, since decoder operates like machine, will dropping of data not break
>>> the decoder algorithm?
>>
>> No, the "dropped", or more correctly, "punctured" bits are replaced
>> with zeros in the decoder. This allows the degradation in
>> performance due to the puncturing to be traded for the bandwidth taken
>> up by those bits. Since the systematic bits are not punctured, only
>> the parity bits are affected, which minimizes the performance
>> degradation.
>
> Can you recommend a tutorial paper on turbo coding?
> Along with its history -
Christian Schlegel "Trellis and Turbo Coding"
Good introductory book.
//---
Q: Why it is impossible to have sex in Red Square in Moscow ?
A: Because every bystander idiot would be trying to give his invaluable
advice.
Vladimir Vassilevsky
DSP and Mixed Signal Designs
www.abvolt.com
Reply by RichD●June 4, 20132013-06-04
On Jun 2, 9eric.jacob...@ieee.org (Eric Jacobsen) wrote:
> >Followed by turbo coding is the rate matching stage where encoded data are
> >dropped.
> >Now, since decoder operates like machine, will dropping of data not break
> >the decoder algorithm?
>
> No, the "dropped", or more correctly, "punctured" bits are replaced
> with zeros in the decoder. � This allows the degradation in
> performance due to the puncturing to be traded for the bandwidth taken
> up by those bits. � Since the systematic bits are not punctured, only
> the parity bits are affected, which minimizes the performance
> degradation.
Can you recommend a tutorial paper on turbo coding?
Along with its history -
Thanks
--
Rich
Reply by Eric Jacobsen●June 2, 20132013-06-02
On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 06:11:50 -0500, "manishp" <58525@dsprelated>
wrote:
>Sirs,
>I have few questions on turbo codes ...
>
>Followed by turbo coding is the rate matching stage where encoded data are
>dropped.
>Now, since decoder operates like machine, will dropping of data not break
>the decoder algorithm?
No, the "dropped", or more correctly, "punctured" bits are replaced
with zeros in the decoder. This allows the degradation in
performance due to the puncturing to be traded for the bandwidth taken
up by those bits. Since the systematic bits are not punctured, only
the parity bits are affected, which minimizes the performance
degradation.
>Another related question, what does convolution signify in case of
>convolution coding?
>
>Thanks, manish
The encoder performs a binary convolution.
Eric Jacobsen
Anchor Hill Communications
http://www.anchorhill.com