robert bristow-johnson wrote:
> 
> well, now you won't know, Erik, (unless you start looking at the headers)
> because Stephane took the sig line off the bottom. 

I'm sure there are still other indicators that its a dspreleated.com post.

> so now we'll have to be
> just as friendly to the DSPrelated posts, statistically, as we would be to
> the others (as we should be).

It wasn't really a matter of being friendly or not, just a matter of
whether I thought the post was worth replying to.

When people come on and treat comps.dsp like IRC, I'm not going to
respond :-).

Erik
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
  Erik de Castro Lopo
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
"Crap can work. Given enough thrust pigs will fly, but it's not necessary a
good idea."  -- Alexander Viro on linux-kernel mailing list

in article 43621AB2.3470B5EF@mega-nerd.com, Erik de Castro Lopo at
nospam@mega-nerd.com wrote on 10/28/2005 08:33:

> Martin Eisenberg wrote:
>> 
>> Like AOL, those gateways bring many people into contact with Usenet
>> who are unaccustomed to a culture that has developed in a
>> relatively structured environment over many years, in contrast to the
>> often ad-hoc flavor of web fora. There is obviously a potential for
>> irritation on both sides of that enounter as newcomers feel
>> patronized while long-timers try to preserve their values. This is,
>> however, a natural consequence of general growth in networked
>> communication rather than a problem with individual labels or users.
>> In particular, the same influx via newsswervers only -- or via Google
>> Groups for that matter -- would lead to exactly the same trouble.
> 
> 
> I have a very limited amount of time for reading/responding to Usenet.
> With these tome constraints I rarely respond to dsprelated.com posts.

well, now you won't know, Erik, (unless you start looking at the headers)
because Stephane took the sig line off the bottom.  so now we'll have to be
just as friendly to the DSPrelated posts, statistically, as we would be to
the others (as we should be).

-- 

r b-j                  rbj@audioimagination.com

"Imagination is more important than knowledge."

Martin Eisenberg wrote:
> 
> Like AOL, those gateways bring many people into contact with Usenet
> who are unaccustomed to a culture that has developed in a
> relatively structured environment over many years, in contrast to the
> often ad-hoc flavor of web fora. There is obviously a potential for
> irritation on both sides of that enounter as newcomers feel
> patronized while long-timers try to preserve their values. This is,
> however, a natural consequence of general growth in networked
> communication rather than a problem with individual labels or users.
> In particular, the same influx via newsswervers only -- or via Google
> Groups for that matter -- would lead to exactly the same trouble.


I have a very limited amount of time for reading/responding to Usenet.
With these tome constraints I rarely respond to dsprelated.com posts.


Erik
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
  Erik de Castro Lopo
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
Linux, the UNIX defragmentation tool.

robert bristow-johnson wrote:
> in article WMydnTSP_M0mvcDeRVn-uw@giganews.com, stephaneb at
> usenet@dsprelated.com wrote on 10/24/2005 13:58:
>
> > Many people are discovering or re-discovering Comp.DSP through
> > DSPRelated.com and that's why so many messages are originating from this
> > interface.
>
> oh, and i just wanted to make it clear that i think that DSPRelated.com
> serves a good purpose.  it's just that the ad on the bottom does not help
> that purpose and is eye trash, at least for me and likely for others.  but
> the real reason to leave the ad off is so that these newbie posters that
> sometimes post ridiculous stuff do not get easily associated with
> DSPRelated.com .  that way DSPRelated.com does not becomes the AOL of
> comp.dsp .
>
>
> --
>
> r b-j                  rbj@audioimagination.com
>
> "Imagination is more important than knowledge."


What purpose does it serve?  What service does it provide that is not
already there on Google?

Mark

in article nK2dnQz7IakeqMPeRVn-hw@giganews.com, stephaneb at
usenet@dsprelated.com wrote on 10/25/2005 09:39:

> robert bristow-johnson wrote:
>> please lose it.
>> 
>> better late than never, but better sooner than later.
> 
> 
> Ok Robert, your arguments are good and I'll follow your advice and remove
> the sig.  

thank you!  yea!
 
> Take care.  

and you, too.

-- 

r b-j                  rbj@audioimagination.com

"Imagination is more important than knowledge."

robert bristow-johnson wrote:
>please lose it.
>
>better late than never, but better sooner than later.


Ok Robert, your arguments are good and I'll follow your advice and remove
the sig.  

Take care.  

Stephane

in article ZaGdndeOzpnwHcDeRVn-sA@giganews.com, stephaneb at
usenet@dsprelated.com wrote on 10/24/2005 20:46:

>> so why not just strip off the text right now, Stephane?  why delay?  i
>> imagine it's just like editing a sig file.
> 
> Because the ad serves a purpose of course, which is to promote the site. I
> understand that your position is that the ad is not helping but rather
> hindering DSPRelated.  If I get the same feedback from a few other
> regulars here and sense that overall, the sig is a negative thing for
> DSPRelated.com, then I'll probably move on and strip it.

well you already have Mark saying

in article 1130209849.556548.238880@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com, Mark at
makolber@yahoo.com wrote on 10/24/2005 23:10:

> 
> OK I agree, I don't see the point of using DSPrelated when you can use
> Google.
> 
> Mark
> 

the persons first hindered are those who are using DSPrelated as a gateway
to comp.dsp.  i think it's fine that you provide such a gateway.  i really
don't care.  they could use Google Groups as far as i care (and i have when
i had posted from a remote computer).  fine.  big deal.

but the people first being hindered are those who *do* use DSPrelated.com to
post to comp.dsp, if their post has to carry the baggage of the ad.  right
away, they are pegged as AOLdotCOMmers and that is *not* helpful to them.
if they post a real annoyance, you don't want that associated with
DSPrelated.com because, i can tell you for sure that if they post a
brilliantly worded and interesting post from DSPrelated, that you will not
be so credited.  that association will stick only to the dogs, in our
memories, not to the good posts.  then, using Bayes rule, if the likelihood
that a dog is with "DSPrelated.com", we will start thinking that
"DSPrelated.com" is a likely dog.  then the guys using DSPrelated to post a
more legit post are harmed, they will (and should) start using Google or a
regular newsserver, and that is when DSPrelated is harmed.

you know, people *using* your service should expect to pay for it by having
to endure ads.  but i am not using your service and i do not want to be
exposed to such an ad, just because i feel generous and might want to
respond to a poster that may or may not be from DSPrelated.  you are forcing
me to see your ad (which is eye trash) and i am not deriving any benefit
from it.  that will hurt your clients because i might start blaming them
(for using DSPrelated to post).

please lose it.

better late than never, but better sooner than later.

-- 

r b-j                  rbj@audioimagination.com

"Imagination is more important than knowledge."

Randy Yates wrote:
> "Mark" <makolber@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> > Randy Yates wrote:
> >> robert bristow-johnson <rbj@audioimagination.com> writes:
> >> > [...]
> >>
> >> > i challenge you to make the case that the DSPRelated.com sig makes
> >> > us *want* to be more helpful or to take the poster more seriously.
> >>
> >> Anyone I see using such an interface instead of the direct usenet news
> >> interface has an immediate notch against them no matter the content or
> >> demeanor of their post. Why go around the block to go to the bathroom?
> >> --
> >> %  Randy Yates                  % "Watching all the days go by...
> >> %% Fuquay-Varina, NC            %  Who are you and who am I?"
> >> %%% 919-577-9882                % 'Mission (A World Record)',
> >> %%%% <yates@ieee.org>           % *A New World Record*, ELO
> >> http://home.earthlink.net/~yatescr
> >
> >
> > I  use Goggle Groups to access newsgroups at work because I do not have
> > newsgroup access at work.  I use Google groups to access newsgroups at
> > home because I prefer the interface and because of the searching
> > capability of Google.
>
> That is not quite the same thing. Google Groups interfaces with the usenet
> news system in a manner isomorphic to a news client. DSPRelated does not.
>
> Case in point: Usenet users don't see the other responses on
> DSPRelated to a thread on DSPRelated, even though a post from that
> thread was tunneled through to usenet.
>
> > I would hope the content of my (and everyone else's)  posts are judged
> > by their content and not by the type of keyboard I used or the route
> > the packets took to get here.  I feel that the "democratization of
> > knowledge" is one of the tenets of the Internet.
>
> I agree. But how is the requirement to establish an acocunt and
> identity in DSPRelated contributing to the democratization of
> knowledge? How is the mongering of information specific to that site,
> and the potential financial gain to be had by the owners, conducive to
> democratic knowledge?
> --
> %

OK I agree, I don't see the point of using DSPrelated when you can use
Google.

Mark

>so why not just strip off the text right now, Stephane?  why delay?  i
>imagine it's just like editing a sig file.

Because the ad serves a purpose of course, which is to promote the site. I
understand that your position is that the ad is not helping but rather
hindering DSPRelated.  If I get the same feedback from a few other
regulars here and sense that overall, the sig is a negative thing for
DSPRelated.com, then I'll probably move on and strip it.

Stephane

		
This message was sent using the Comp.DSP web interface on
www.DSPRelated.com

in article WMydnTSP_M0mvcDeRVn-uw@giganews.com, stephaneb at
usenet@dsprelated.com wrote on 10/24/2005 13:58:

> Many people are discovering or re-discovering Comp.DSP through
> DSPRelated.com and that's why so many messages are originating from this
> interface.

oh, and i just wanted to make it clear that i think that DSPRelated.com
serves a good purpose.  it's just that the ad on the bottom does not help
that purpose and is eye trash, at least for me and likely for others.  but
the real reason to leave the ad off is so that these newbie posters that
sometimes post ridiculous stuff do not get easily associated with
DSPRelated.com .  that way DSPRelated.com does not becomes the AOL of
comp.dsp .


-- 

r b-j                  rbj@audioimagination.com

"Imagination is more important than knowledge."