Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
> tommy wrote:
>
> > newsgroup is place to Q&A when someone has something not to understand.
> > I think you never understand why newsgroup exists.
> > Don't enter newsgroup If you do not want to see such idiot question.
> > Make human first before you get technology
>
> A troglodyte came to you and asked how to build the Babel tower to reach
> the Moon. Do you think he will be able to understand the pathetic
> attempts to explain the gravitation, orbits, space velocities, etc?

One of my most severe shortcommings is that I can not read other
people's minds. When somebody ask me a question, I try to answer
it as best I can. It usually starts some sort of dialog that indicates
to me how the "troglodyte" is prepared for asking the question.

There have been times the question was caused by the other party
not being aware that there may have been a problem. Other times,
the other party was aware of the problem but did not know where
to look for ways to handle it.

And of course, there have been cases where one wonders whether
anything at all goes on inside the other party's mind. Not many,
though.
I have seen maybe one or two of those cases during my lifetime.

There is a vast difference between "layman" or "not sufficiently
prepared/educated" on one hand, and "moron" or "idiot" on the other.

> Kick the caveman's ass and make him run back into his cave. May be this
> kick will make him study instead of looking for quick answers for the
> stupid questions.

That's one way of doing it. People who like that method for educating
others, may want to consider soccer for a hobby.  Or joining the
army as drill seargeants.

> Even the DSP abc-books and www sites for idiots contain enough
> information not to ask what is a complex number, how to do the division
> or what is MIPS per MHz.

This is all out bullshit.

People have different levels of preparation for taking up DSP.
Developing knowledge takes a concious effort. Asking questions is
part of that effort. Everybody have asked those kinds of question
at one time or another, even you. No one are omniscient. Those who
think they are, are the ones that end up like the cavemen you despise:
They have all their world visible around themselves, within easy reach.

They see that cave opening as a troublesome anomaly in an otherwise
stable, static world. And they miss out on the rest of the world
outside 
their cave. 

Rune

tommy wrote:

> newsgroup is place to Q&A when someone has something not to understand.
> I think you never understand why newsgroup exists.
> Don't enter newsgroup If you do not want to see such idiot question.
> Make human first before you get technology

A troglodyte came to you and asked how to build the Babel tower to reach 
the Moon. Do you think he will be able to understand the pathetic 
attempts to explain the gravitation, orbits, space velocities, etc?

Kick the caveman's ass and make him run back into his cave. May be this 
kick will make him study instead of looking for quick answers for the 
stupid questions.

Even the DSP abc-books and www sites for idiots contain enough 
information not to ask what is a complex number, how to do the division 
or what is MIPS per MHz.

VLV

newsgroup is place to Q&A when someone has something not to understand.
I think you never understand why newsgroup exists.
Don't enter newsgroup If you do not want to see such idiot question.
Make human first before you get technology

Jon Harris wrote:
> 
> In many (most?) processors that are considered DSPs, every (or almost every)
> instruction takes 1 clock cycle.  So in this case MIPS = MHz.

Ah, but many (most?) DSPs can execute more than one instruction per
clock cycle, so MIPS > MHz. Exactly how many MIPS you get depends on
how efficiently your code can be distributed over the available
execution units. The spread between "peak" MIPS, "typical" MIPS and
"worst case" MIPS can easily be an order of magnitude.

Cheers

mark-r

-- 
"Let's meet the panel. You couldn't ask for four finer comedians -
so that answers your next question..."
 -- Humphrey Lyttleton

In comp.dsp,
Jon Harris <jon99_harris7@hotmail.com> wrote:
>"Steve Underwood" <steveu@dis.org> wrote in message 
>news:dplbb8$hjg$1@home.itg.ti.com...
>>>
>> There is very little relationship between MHz and MIPs. Some machines execute 
>> several instructions in one clock cycle. Some take several clock cycles to 
>> perform one instruction. Even for a single doubling the clock speed may not 
>> double the frequency, due to memory speed constraints.
>>
>> The obvious related topic is "just what the heck is a MIP?". What most DSP 
>> people think of as an instruction tends to be something doing several times 
>> the work of what general software developers think of as an instruction.
>
>In many (most?) processors that are considered DSPs, every (or almost every) 
>instruction takes 1 clock cycle.  So in this case MIPS = MHz.  This is typically 
>_not_ the case for CPUs used in PCs (Pentium, AMD, etc.) where it takes a 
>variable number of clock cycles for each instruction to execute. 
>
And that brings us back to: "just what the heck is a MIP?" :-)

I normally use MCU's and the first time a used a DSP (AD2100 series),
I was surprised that it could use the ALU, MAC and Barrel shifter in a 
single 'instruction' and on top of that provides hardware ring buffers
and zero overhead looping. Oh, and the serial stuff also keeps running.

Try that on a 'normal' MCU and you'll need a series of instructions. Using
an ARM7, I was pleasantly surprised by the MAC instruction that speeded
up FIR processing. Most MCU's I worked with before did not even have that.


-- 
Stef    (remove caps, dashes and .invalid from e-mail address to reply by mail)

Love is the triumph of imagination over intelligence.
		-- H. L. Mencken

"Jon Harris" <jon99_harris7@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:t9wvf.13$Xo5.11@trnddc02: 

> "Steve Underwood" <steveu@dis.org> wrote in message 
> news:dplbb8$hjg$1@home.itg.ti.com...
>> Ravikumar.R wrote:
>>
>>>Hi
>>>
>>>If a processor operating at 200MHz. Whats the Max. MIPS the processor
>>>supports.
>>>Is there a way to calculate MIPS from MHz ??
>>>How do u relate MIPS and MHz ??
>>>
>> There is very little relationship between MHz and MIPs. Some machines
>> execute several instructions in one clock cycle. Some take several
>> clock cycles to perform one instruction. Even for a single doubling
>> the clock speed may not double the frequency, due to memory speed
>> constraints. 
>>
>> The obvious related topic is "just what the heck is a MIP?". What
>> most DSP people think of as an instruction tends to be something
>> doing several times the work of what general software developers
>> think of as an instruction. 
> 
> In many (most?) processors that are considered DSPs, every (or almost
> every) instruction takes 1 clock cycle.  So in this case MIPS = MHz. 
> This is typically _not_ the case for CPUs used in PCs (Pentium, AMD,
> etc.) where it takes a variable number of clock cycles for each
> instruction to execute. 
> 
> 
> 

MIPs/MHz can even be a bit more misleading. 

Many DSPs (and other processors) use a much lower clock in frequency and 
multiply this clock up via an internal PLL. Therefore the MHz we are 
comparing is the Core Clock, which as Jon points out is usually the 
instruction rate.

Most newer DSPs support SIMD as well. This means that a single 
instruction can operate on Multiple Data (typically 2 sets). This 
effectively doubles the computation power of the DSP when executing code 
written to take advantage of this capability. The basic housekeeping 
functions rarely can take advantage of SIMD so the DSP is not going to be 
twice as fast as a SISD (Single Instruction, Single Data) processor but 
will be somewhere between 1x-2x faster. 

DSP manufacturers also like to talk about other metrics to show that DSPs 
do a lot of operations in one instruction cycle. This is why you see 
specs like MFLOPS/sec that are in the billion/sec range.

-- 
Al Clark
Danville Signal Processing, Inc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Purveyors of Fine DSP Hardware and other Cool Stuff
Available at http://www.danvillesignal.com

>Please be kind to the newbies!  If you consider their questions to be
"beneath 
>you", simply ignore them rather than insulting their intelligence. 
Perhaps 
>someone else will take the time to respond and either answer the question
or at 
>least better direct them on asking the "right" question.  comp.dsp has a
history 
>of being polite and friendly, and it would be nice to keep it that way. 
Thanks!
>
>-- 
>Jon Harris
>SPAM blocker in place:
>Remove 99 (but leave 7) to reply

Jon, niceties need never be preached, it is self evident if anyone bothers
to hang around comp.dsp for a bit. Iam not sure if this person does not
know this already.

--Bhooshan

"Steve Underwood" <steveu@dis.org> wrote in message 
news:dplbb8$hjg$1@home.itg.ti.com...
> Ravikumar.R wrote:
>
>>Hi
>>
>>If a processor operating at 200MHz. Whats the Max. MIPS the processor
>>supports.
>>Is there a way to calculate MIPS from MHz ??
>>How do u relate MIPS and MHz ??
>>
> There is very little relationship between MHz and MIPs. Some machines execute 
> several instructions in one clock cycle. Some take several clock cycles to 
> perform one instruction. Even for a single doubling the clock speed may not 
> double the frequency, due to memory speed constraints.
>
> The obvious related topic is "just what the heck is a MIP?". What most DSP 
> people think of as an instruction tends to be something doing several times 
> the work of what general software developers think of as an instruction.

In many (most?) processors that are considered DSPs, every (or almost every) 
instruction takes 1 clock cycle.  So in this case MIPS = MHz.  This is typically 
_not_ the case for CPUs used in PCs (Pentium, AMD, etc.) where it takes a 
variable number of clock cycles for each instruction to execute.

Please be kind to the newbies!  If you consider their questions to be "beneath 
you", simply ignore them rather than insulting their intelligence.  Perhaps 
someone else will take the time to respond and either answer the question or at 
least better direct them on asking the "right" question.  comp.dsp has a history 
of being polite and friendly, and it would be nice to keep it that way.  Thanks!

-- 
Jon Harris
SPAM blocker in place:
Remove 99 (but leave 7) to reply

"Vladimir Vassilevsky" <antispam_bogus@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:w4qvf.50198$7h7.7831@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
> Ravikumar.R wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> If a processor operating at 200MHz. Whats the Max. MIPS the processor
>> supports.
>> Is there a way to calculate MIPS from MHz ??
>> How do u relate MIPS and MHz ??
>>
>
> I have another question: why the number of idiots in this newsgroop had such a 
> dramatic increase since n.y. 2006 ?
>
> VLV