There's lots of helpful information and data about the MELP vocoder and MELPe codec at:
Http://www.melpe.org
Incluing implementations, software, hardware and solutions
Reply by GoodMan●October 29, 20182018-10-29
Looking for hardware board with analog audio to feed MELPe bitstream into our system.
SW
Reply by GoodMan●October 29, 20182018-10-29
Looking for hardware board with analog audio to feed MELPe bitstream into our system.
SW
Reply by Vladimir Vassilevsky●January 25, 20062006-01-25
Yes, you are right. I was looking for the low cost middle performance
DSP about one year ago. The price dropped since then.
> Analog's
> advertised prices are usually closer to reality than most, so the real
> price is probably about $4
>>> more powerful than MELP requires. If you are really buying, you can
>>> negotiate a much lower price.
>>
>> I have some doubts about it.
>
>
> If you doubt it I guess you have never negotiated serious prices for
> reasonable volumes of semiconductors.
Yes. I don't have experience with more then several thousands pieces.
Once the volumes reach 10's of
> thousands, a negotiated price can be dramatically lower than anything
> advertised. As I said, Analog have a history of advertising prices
> closer to reality than most people.
Sometimes, the ADI is raising the price for a product after some
introductory period.
VLV
Reply by NS●January 24, 20062006-01-24
> Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
>> Steve Underwood wrote:
>>>> A DSP to run MELP is <$2. Which Pentium is cheaper than that?
The actual issue was; given that 533MHz Pentium or PowerPc is already
the main processor in the system, does one need a DSP co-processor for
running MELPe?
Based on Compandent's performance, the answer is NO!
One may use the given 533MHz Pentium or PowerPc, and may not need DSP
co-processor! Which may dramatically save R&D cost a few bucks on each
product.
For the performance on Pentium etc. see:
http://www.compandent.com/MELPePackageFactSheetPOSIX.pdf
Note the amazingly efficient implementation on Pentium & Ultra Sparc!
>> You probably can't get down to $2, but then you don't need such a
>> powerful machine for MELP. There are a number of DSPs offering 100MIPs
>> for which the masked version is <$2 for 10's of K.
In high volume, appropriate DSP for MELPe would cost about $5-6 (with
adequate MIPS & memory)
> Just the licensing fees for MELP would probably be higher then $2 per unit.
That is correct for commercial application, but not for US government &
NATO application.
For commercial applications IPR holders are TI, Microsoft, AT&T/Lucent
(NPP only), Compandent, and Thales (600 bps only).
Interestingly, since TI normally waives its IPR for TI's DSP based
implementations, the cost of MELPe on Analog Devices' DSP implementation
may be further higher than on TI's...
Reply by Steve Underwood●January 24, 20062006-01-24
Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
>
>
> Steve Underwood wrote:
>
>
>>>> A DSP to run MELP is <$2. Which Pentium is cheaper than that?
>>>
>>>
>>> What is the DSP that is under $2 and can run MELP? I suggest
>>> something like Blackfin/TMS55xx, but those DSPs are about $8 in
>>> quantities.
>>
>>
>> You seem seiously out of touch with pricing. Even the Analog web site
>> shows much lower prices for modest quantities of Blackfin parts,
>
>
> WHERE?
> Please, provide me a link with such a remarkable price for BF.
> The TMS-55xx is somewhat more expensive.
>> more powerful than MELP requires. If you are really buying, you can
>> negotiate a much lower price.
>
>
> I have some doubts about it.
If you doubt it I guess you have never negotiated serious prices for
reasonable volumes of semiconductors. Once the volumes reach 10's of
thousands, a negotiated price can be dramatically lower than anything
advertised. As I said, Analog have a history of advertising prices
closer to reality than most people.
>> You probably can't get down to $2, but then you don't need such a
>> powerful machine for MELP. There are a number of DSPs offering 100MIPs
>> for which the masked version is <$2 for 10's of K.
>
>
> Just the licensing fees for MELP would probably be higher then $2 per unit.
This might well be true. :-)
From something someone else posted it sounds like MELP might require
rather more RAM than most other speech codecs. If that is true, some of
the cheaper devices might not do the job. However, for many codecs the
reference code uses far more RAM than an optimised solution. If you have
spare MIPs it is also often possible to dump and recalculate vectors
later, so reducing the peak RAM demand.
Regards,
Steve
Reply by Vladimir Vassilevsky●January 24, 20062006-01-24
Steve Underwood wrote:
>>> A DSP to run MELP is <$2. Which Pentium is cheaper than that?
>>
>> What is the DSP that is under $2 and can run MELP? I suggest something
>> like Blackfin/TMS55xx, but those DSPs are about $8 in quantities.
>
> You seem seiously out of touch with pricing. Even the Analog web site
> shows much lower prices for modest quantities of Blackfin parts,
WHERE?
Please, provide me a link with such a remarkable price for BF.
The TMS-55xx is somewhat more expensive.
> more powerful than MELP requires. If you are really buying, you can
> negotiate a much lower price.
I have some doubts about it.
> You probably can't get down to $2, but
> then you don't need such a powerful machine for MELP. There are a number
> of DSPs offering 100MIPs for which the masked version is <$2 for 10's of K.
Just the licensing fees for MELP would probably be higher then $2 per unit.
VLV
Reply by NS●January 23, 20062006-01-23
Steve Underwood wrote:
> Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Steve Underwood wrote:
>>
>>> R. Chen wrote:
>>>
>>>> For secure portable device that is based on 533MHz Power PC
>>>> processor or Pentium, we would like to use low rate vocoder. We
>>>> realized that MELP or MELPe vocoder may be best for rates between
>>>> 600 and 2400 bps. Do we need DSP or can we use simpler and cheaper
>>>> solution such as the Power PC/Pentium processor itself?
>>>> If we need to use DSP implementation, which DSP/implementation be
>>>> the best?
>>>> RC
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A DSP to run MELP is <$2. Which Pentium is cheaper than that?
>>
>>
>>
>> I guess this is an exaggeration. MELP-2400 takes somewhat 25 MIPS +
>> 10k, MELPe-1200 ~ 100 MIPS + 100k, not sure about MELPe-600.
>> What is the DSP that is under $2 and can run MELP? I suggest something
>> like Blackfin/TMS55xx, but those DSPs are about $8 in quantities.
>
>
> You seem seiously out of touch with pricing. Even the Analog web site
> shows much lower prices for modest quantities of Blackfin parts, far
> more powerful than MELP requires. If you are really buying, you can
> negotiate a much lower price. You probably can't get down to $2, but
> then you don't need such a powerful machine for MELP. There are a number
> of DSPs offering 100MIPs for which the masked version is <$2 for 10's of K.
>
> Steve
The MIPS and memory required for MELPe are listed at Compandent's web site:
http://www.MELPe.comhttp://www.compandent.com/MELPePackageFactSheet.pdf
It requires about 60 MIPS including the Noise-PreProcessor and about 45
MIPS without it, and the amount of memory needed may be very high for
the low rates (60K words = 120Kbytes). The 2400 bps, may be implemented
on the c5509 which is sold for $6 in high volume. BlackFin may cost
about the same for the required RAM.
But in any event, it seems like Compandent offers implementations on
Pentium or Power PC, and 30% percent on a cheap 533MHz processor may
save lots of unnecessary additional costs related to adding a DSP
co-processor to an existing PowerPC-based or Pentium-based system. So
if that's the case, why bother about adding a DSP co-processor?
Reply by Jerry Avins●January 22, 20062006-01-22
Steve Underwood wrote:
> Jerry Avins wrote:
...
>> A chip won't do much on its own. You need interface parts and a board.
>> We used to estimate board costs at about a dollar a package pin when
>> all was said and done.
...
> Hey, you're more out of touch with pricing than Vladimir :-)
And enjoying every year of it!
> A dollar a pin would make a $2 DSP escalate to $100-$200. Not too likely
> these days, though probably not far from what I experienced in my early
> working life - things bulk up a lot more when you use a sea of 14 and 16
> pin DIPs.
The figure applied to DIPS less than 20 pins. It wasn't for the pins
exactly, but a remarkably consistent estimating rule. Of course it
doesn't work for BGAs and even for larger dips.
> The original poster was comparing the use of a Pentium with a DSP chip.
> The rest of the system cost would be higher for a Pentium, since it
> needs other chips to make a system. A $2 DSP can stand alone and do the
> work. All it needs is a little board space, a few decoupling caps, and
> some power.
You need to get signals into and out if it.
> The $2 shouldn't escalate beyond about $5 at the system
> level, including PSU, etc.
A used or refurbished PC can be had for not much more than the cost of
parts including power supply and board.
> I just noticed the original poster was talking about a 533MHz Power PC
> or Pentium. If MELP 1200 takes 100MIPs on a DSP, I doubt it could even
> run on a 533MHz desktop chip, unless MMX/SSE/Alti-Vec/whatever works out
> particularly well for the MELP arithmetic.
I'm sure he'll appreciate knowing that.
Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
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Reply by Steve Underwood●January 22, 20062006-01-22
Jerry Avins wrote:
> Steve Underwood wrote:
>
>> Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Steve Underwood wrote:
>>>
>>>> R. Chen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> For secure portable device that is based on 533MHz Power PC
>>>>> processor or Pentium, we would like to use low rate vocoder. We
>>>>> realized that MELP or MELPe vocoder may be best for rates between
>>>>> 600 and 2400 bps. Do we need DSP or can we use simpler and
>>>>> cheaper solution such as the Power PC/Pentium processor itself?
>>>>> If we need to use DSP implementation, which DSP/implementation be
>>>>> the best?
>>>>> RC
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A DSP to run MELP is <$2. Which Pentium is cheaper than that?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I guess this is an exaggeration. MELP-2400 takes somewhat 25 MIPS +
>>> 10k, MELPe-1200 ~ 100 MIPS + 100k, not sure about MELPe-600.
>>> What is the DSP that is under $2 and can run MELP? I suggest
>>> something like Blackfin/TMS55xx, but those DSPs are about $8 in
>>> quantities.
>>
>>
>>
>> You seem seiously out of touch with pricing. Even the Analog web site
>> shows much lower prices for modest quantities of Blackfin parts, far
>> more powerful than MELP requires. If you are really buying, you can
>> negotiate a much lower price. You probably can't get down to $2, but
>> then you don't need such a powerful machine for MELP. There are a
>> number of DSPs offering 100MIPs for which the masked version is <$2
>> for 10's of K.
>
>
> A chip won't do much on its own. You need interface parts and a board.
> We used to estimate board costs at about a dollar a package pin when
> all was said and done.
>
> Jerry
Hey, you're more out of touch with pricing than Vladimir :-)
A dollar a pin would make a $2 DSP escalate to $100-$200. Not too likely
these days, though probably not far from what I experienced in my early
working life - things bulk up a lot more when you use a sea of 14 and 16
pin DIPs.
The original poster was comparing the use of a Pentium with a DSP chip.
The rest of the system cost would be higher for a Pentium, since it
needs other chips to make a system. A $2 DSP can stand alone and do the
work. All it needs is a little board space, a few decoupling caps, and
some power. The $2 shouldn't escalate beyond about $5 at the system
level, including PSU, etc.
I just noticed the original poster was talking about a 533MHz Power PC
or Pentium. If MELP 1200 takes 100MIPs on a DSP, I doubt it could even
run on a 533MHz desktop chip, unless MMX/SSE/Alti-Vec/whatever works out
particularly well for the MELP arithmetic.
Regards,
Steve