> You have to read as carefully on the net as anywhere else. Amazon
> lists the print to order books as print to order. How could one
> consider 'new' in a web context to mean 'uncirculated' and more than
> 15 years in storage?
Not necessarily "15 years in storage", but publishers *have*
been known to uccationaly re-print older titles...
> "I don't know, but I know where to look it up" is a powerful stance in
> the real world. I have great respect for it and strive to practice it
> on topics of interest outside my immediate endeavours(Hopefully, there
> I've already looked it up). But, it is not a useful or meaningful
> answer to a question in comp.dsp or any other usenet group.
I have *have* posted answers to similar effect on a number
of occations. "Look in text so-and-so by author this-and-that,
look for keyword whatever."
Whether those sorts of replies have been *useful* to the
askers, is an as of yet unansewred question, though...
Rune
Reply by Richard Owlett●April 9, 20072007-04-09
Jerry Avins wrote:
>
> "I don't know, but I know where to look it up" is a very accptable
> answer to most questions.
>
> Jerry
That was essentially the definition of an engineer given by Prof.
Ecicson, then dean of Cornell's College of Engineering to the entering
freshmen 9/61. His contrasting definition of a scientist was one who
discovered the "answer". [loose paraphrase]
Reply by Jerry Avins●April 9, 20072007-04-09
dbd wrote:
> On Apr 9, 1:09 pm, Jerry Avins <j...@ieee.org> wrote:
>> dbd wrote:
>>
>> ...
>>
>>> "I don't know, but I know where to look it up" is a powerful stance in
>>> the real world. I have great respect for it and strive to practice it
>>> on topics of interest outside my immediate endeavours(Hopefully, there
>>> I've already looked it up). But, it is not a useful or meaningful
>>> answer to a question in comp.dsp or any other usenet group.
>> It is if you do look it up and interpret what you find for the OP at a
>> level you think he can absorb. :-) Sometimes, telling the OP where it
>> can be (or might have been) looked up is also appropriate.
>>
>> Jerry
>> --
>> Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
>> �����������������������������������������������������������������������
>
> Yes Jerry, you do need to interpret it or tell the OP where to look,
> not just say:
> "I don't know, but I know where to look it up". I agree with you as
> well as Rune.
We agree. Knowing where to look it up is the important part. The best
way to use the knowledge depends on circumstance. I took "I don't know,
but I know where to look it up" as metaphor. You had no way to know that
I didn't intend it always literally.
Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Reply by dbd●April 9, 20072007-04-09
On Apr 9, 1:09 pm, Jerry Avins <j...@ieee.org> wrote:
> dbd wrote:
>
> ...
>
> > "I don't know, but I know where to look it up" is a powerful stance in
> > the real world. I have great respect for it and strive to practice it
> > on topics of interest outside my immediate endeavours(Hopefully, there
> > I've already looked it up). But, it is not a useful or meaningful
> > answer to a question in comp.dsp or any other usenet group.
>
> It is if you do look it up and interpret what you find for the OP at a
> level you think he can absorb. :-) Sometimes, telling the OP where it
> can be (or might have been) looked up is also appropriate.
>
> Jerry
> --
> Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
> =AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=
=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=
=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF
Yes Jerry, you do need to interpret it or tell the OP where to look,
not just say:
"I don't know, but I know where to look it up". I agree with you as
well as Rune.
Dale B. Dalrymple
http://dbdimages.com
Reply by Jerry Avins●April 9, 20072007-04-09
dbd wrote:
...
> "I don't know, but I know where to look it up" is a powerful stance in
> the real world. I have great respect for it and strive to practice it
> on topics of interest outside my immediate endeavours(Hopefully, there
> I've already looked it up). But, it is not a useful or meaningful
> answer to a question in comp.dsp or any other usenet group.
It is if you do look it up and interpret what you find for the OP at a
level you think he can absorb. :-) Sometimes, telling the OP where it
can be (or might have been) looked up is also appropriate.
Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Reply by dbd●April 9, 20072007-04-09
On Apr 9, 9:34 am, Jerry Avins <j...@ieee.org> wrote:
> Rune Allnor wrote:
>
> ...
>
> > To me, my books are as important tools as a hammer is to a
> > carpenter or a wrench to a mechanic. My work is not so often
> > about me doing my own stuff, as me applying techniques and
> > methods I find in my books to solve real-world problems.
>
Rune and I agree on the value of books and the practical necessity of
maintaining a personal library. For those who have not spent decades
as personal librarians, there are sources of books that exist today
and can be used. New personal librarians don't have the same resources
we used in decades past. they also have resources available that
weren't in the past.
You have to read as carefully on the net as anywhere else. Amazon
lists the print to order books as print to order. How could one
consider 'new' in a web context to mean 'uncirculated' and more than
15 years in storage?
> "I don't know, but I know where to look it up" is a very accptable
> answer to most questions.
>
> Jerry
> --
> Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
> =AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=
=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=
=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF
"I don't know, but I know where to look it up" is a powerful stance in
the real world. I have great respect for it and strive to practice it
on topics of interest outside my immediate endeavours(Hopefully, there
I've already looked it up). But, it is not a useful or meaningful
answer to a question in comp.dsp or any other usenet group.
Dale B. Dalrymple
http://dbdimages.com
Reply by Jerry Avins●April 9, 20072007-04-09
Rune Allnor wrote:
...
> To me, my books are as important tools as a hammer is to a
> carpenter or a wrench to a mechanic. My work is not so often
> about me doing my own stuff, as me applying techniques and
> methods I find in my books to solve real-world problems.
"I don't know, but I know where to look it up" is a very accptable
answer to most questions.
Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Reply by Rune Allnor●April 9, 20072007-04-09
On 9 Apr, 01:49, "dbd" <d...@ieee.org> wrote:
> Rune, what is your position on libraries? Would you never borrow a
> book from somebody who would consider lending his copy to you?
I didn't answer the second question first time around, did I...
When I was freshly hired in the job which later became my
PhD scholarship, I needed a book on some esoteric subject
which was just about to become the buzzword of the time
(I think it was Genetic Algorithms, but that's not
important). I searcehd the nation-wide library archive
and found one or two copies registred at the libraries
of some other universities, both of which were reserved
for other lenders for weeks and months to come.
I decided to buy my own copy for department money, and
went to see the department secretary to hear what was
the proper procedure. "Just leave the name of the author
and title with me, and I will handle it" she said.
And she did. By the book. Which meant that she registered
my copy with the nation-wide library archive before she
handed me "my" copy as a library loan, on library terms.
The consequence was that I spent the next year fighting
off lending requests from all over the country -- "my"
copy was the third registered nation-wide, and everyone
wanted to lend it. Of course, I needed it (that was why
I had bought it) but still had to write a formal response
as to why every four weeks, when my lending had to be
formally renewed.
Not at all amusing.
I never checked a book in with the library ever again.
If I bought a book for departement money -- as opposed
to buying it privately for my own money -- I checked it
in with the department as "office inventory" or something
like that, never "book".
I doubt my experiences are unique, so I guess the answer
to your question is that what I might be interested in
lending by all probability is not offered through the
library system.
Rune
Reply by Rune Allnor●April 9, 20072007-04-09
On 9 Apr, 03:15, Jerry Avins <j...@ieee.org> wrote:
> dbd wrote:
> > On Apr 8, 1:55 pm, "Rune Allnor" <all...@tele.ntnu.no> wrote:
> >> On 8 Apr, 20:38, "dbd" <d...@ieee.org> wrote:
>
> >>> [books] available for sale used.
> >> To paraphrase some madman from times long since past:
>
> >> "I would never buy a used book from somebody who might
> >> consider selling his copy."
>
...
> I think I know what Rune means. Too often, someone selling his books
> selects for sale those he thinks are inferior,
Exactly.
When I go to a bookstore to spend $50 - $100 on a book,
I very carefully selects exactly what copy to buy. Never the
one first in line, which everybody have browsed. The rest,
I look over for scratches and bruises. I walk away with
the copy which compares most favourably among the ones
available.
I have even walked away from buying books for the very
reason that the available copies were not in suffciently
good condition. The most recent one when that happened,
was a $10 paperback which back cover was torn.
The first thing I do when I come home, is to wrap paperbacks
with a protective plastic coat. I have paperack textbooks
from 20 years ago which are in better condition now than
my fellow student's copies were three months into the
semester. And yes, I *did* use my copy as much as they
used theirs...
To me, my books are as important tools as a hammer is to a
carpenter or a wrench to a mechanic. My work is not so often
about me doing my own stuff, as me applying techniques and
methods I find in my books to solve real-world problems.
Rune
Reply by Rune Allnor●April 9, 20072007-04-09
On 9 Apr, 01:49, "dbd" <d...@ieee.org> wrote:
> On Apr 8, 1:55 pm, "Rune Allnor" <all...@tele.ntnu.no> wrote:
>
> > On 8 Apr, 20:38, "dbd" <d...@ieee.org> wrote:
>
> > > [books] available for sale used.
>
> > To paraphrase some madman from times long since past:
>
> > "I would never buy a used book from somebody who might
> > consider selling his copy."
>
> > Rune
>
> Amazon.com reports one of the sources for "Statistical Signal
> Processing" as hardcover print to order.
If so, it has changed since I bought my copy. At the time,
the book was availabe as "new". I interpreted this as
original publisher's binding, what I got was a print to order.
I have no problem with that, as long as what is sold is
what is advertised.
> Rune, what is your position on libraries? Would you never borrow a
> book from somebody who would consider lending his copy to you?
A library is a library, and you know what (not) to expect.
Where I used to work the academic libraries were poor; the
best one was last reasonably up-to-date some time just
before 1980. If you need an early classic you know where to
look and maybe even find it.
I wanted -- and still wants -- a compehensive selection of
useful books availale to me when I need them. I have no other
choise but to spend my own hard-earned $$ buying them myself.
Rune