Reply by Mikolaj June 4, 20082008-06-04
On 04-06-2008 at 10:47:02 faz <fazulu.vlsi@gmail.com> wrote:

> I beg you, please, read the usenet netiquette. > Reading FAQ is useless when you don't understand bases. > > Dont worry i red that...It is the first point mentioned..
Then why don't you follow the rules of netiquette? In my view you should ask those filter designers who gave you the coefficients about what performance parameters they are expecting. The kind of test depend on this parameters. If the parameter to verify is an overshoot then you will perform a step response. When the parameter of interst is bandwith then you will perform a frequency spectrum analysis. If there was no instruction about what kind of parameter to verify then you can test anything you want (Infinite number of input signals and their responses) because you are not verifying but making a series of tests then. Do it as long as they will be pleased.
> Surely now i got interest to learn about the design more than > implementing it so that i can answer all your questions but alas you r > not given a reply for the resources which i asked you...
Well, you didn't specify erlier that you are interested in FPGA implementation and not in filter design and signal processing. All the time we are trying to determine what your "question" is because you asked to generally and so the answer would be "any recourses you want". -- Mikolaj
Reply by faz June 4, 20082008-06-04
I beg you, please, read the usenet netiquette.
Reading FAQ is useless when you don't understand bases.

Dont worry i red that...It is the first point mentioned..

You just blindly use software that generates some numbers
 and you are trying to verify those numbers (coefficients)
 to find if they are perfect.

Yes you r correct...its not my headache...I am just doing the MAC
operation to implement a generic FIR filter whose response entirely
depended on the way the filter designer generated the
coefficients(watever property of the filter u r talking about)...
accepting constraints from the digital filter designers(people like u)
i will do response checks for any type of FIR filter(LP.HP,BP,BR) like
verifying an apple ...so i depended on software tool..but at the same
time u cannot blame those software tools which will make the job
easier for people like me.


What do *you* want from your numbers? What is your goal?
What would you like to achieve?
What "property" of of a filter is important in your design?

Again i am behind how much resources on the FPGA will be utlized at
the maximum extend,maximum clock requirement,computation time and
critical path delay these are the properties which i am working on
it...

if u knew some more books send the link of the same..
Surely now i got interest to learn about the design more than
implementing it so that i can answer all your questions but alas you r
not given a reply for the resources which i asked you...

regards,
faz


On Jun 4, 11:40&#4294967295;am, Mikolaj
<sterowanie_komputer...@hahapoczta.onet.pl> wrote:
> On 04-06-2008 at 06:35:16 faz <fazulu.v...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I beg you, please, read the usenet netiquette. > > > But he is not willing to co-operate. > > > Without learning resources i am not blindly designing a FIR > > filter...do u think it is possible...Might be my understanding is not > > to the maximum level as u r excepting as i am new to dsp..I have been > > updating till i reach that level...can u share some links,good > > resources about the FIR filter design and verification... > > Yes, I think you have no idea what you are doing. > You just blindly use software that generates some numbers > and you are trying to verify those numbers (coefficients) > to find if they are perfect. > I asked you earlier, what do you mean writing "optimal" or "perfect"? > > To verify if an apple is "sweet" we can use tongue sensor > and "bite" method and compare sweetness with our memory > and experience. > We can verify another "property" of an apple, the colour. > To verify if an apple is "red" we ca use eye sensor but > we have to excite an apple with white light and then tak an eye &#4294967295; > measurement. > Then compare results to our brain standard for "red". > > To verify means to compare what we have to what we want. > What do *you* want from your numbers? What is your goal? > What would you like to achieve? > What "property" of of a filter is important in your design? > Is it attenuation in bandpass or in stopband, maybe delay > or accuracy or maybe overshoot in step response or response time or > many many else properties and their combinations? > > > Let me clear u first wat i have done so far...Before designing i red > > all the FAQ of this groups about FIR filter design and followed by > > other resources in the net.Even i refered books like discrete time > > signal processing,digital filter designers &#4294967295;handbook and practical > > analog and digital filter design(if u knew some more books send the > > link of the same).Then decided to design a FIR filter to that can > > support upto 256 taps and generated the coefficients using equiripple > > design method with direct form 1 structure using the FDA tool of > > MATLAB. > > Reading FAQ is useless when you don't understand bases. > > (...) > > -- > Mikolaj
Reply by Mikolaj June 4, 20082008-06-04
On 04-06-2008 at 06:35:16 faz <fazulu.vlsi@gmail.com> wrote:

I beg you, please, read the usenet netiquette.

> But he is not willing to co-operate. > > Without learning resources i am not blindly designing a FIR > filter...do u think it is possible...Might be my understanding is not > to the maximum level as u r excepting as i am new to dsp..I have been > updating till i reach that level...can u share some links,good > resources about the FIR filter design and verification...
Yes, I think you have no idea what you are doing. You just blindly use software that generates some numbers and you are trying to verify those numbers (coefficients) to find if they are perfect. I asked you earlier, what do you mean writing "optimal" or "perfect"? To verify if an apple is "sweet" we can use tongue sensor and "bite" method and compare sweetness with our memory and experience. We can verify another "property" of an apple, the colour. To verify if an apple is "red" we ca use eye sensor but we have to excite an apple with white light and then tak an eye measurement. Then compare results to our brain standard for "red". To verify means to compare what we have to what we want. What do *you* want from your numbers? What is your goal? What would you like to achieve? What "property" of of a filter is important in your design? Is it attenuation in bandpass or in stopband, maybe delay or accuracy or maybe overshoot in step response or response time or many many else properties and their combinations?
> Let me clear u first wat i have done so far...Before designing i red > all the FAQ of this groups about FIR filter design and followed by > other resources in the net.Even i refered books like discrete time > signal processing,digital filter designers handbook and practical > analog and digital filter design(if u knew some more books send the > link of the same).Then decided to design a FIR filter to that can > support upto 256 taps and generated the coefficients using equiripple > design method with direct form 1 structure using the FDA tool of > MATLAB.
Reading FAQ is useless when you don't understand bases. (...) -- Mikolaj
Reply by faz June 4, 20082008-06-04
But he is not willing to co-operate.

Without learning resources i am not blindly designing a FIR
filter...do u think it is possible...Might be my understanding is not
to the maximum level as u r excepting as i am new to dsp..I have been
updating till i reach that level...can u share some links,good
resources about the FIR filter design and verification...

Let me clear u first wat i have done so far...Before designing i red
all the FAQ of this groups about FIR filter design and followed by
other resources in the net.Even i refered books like discrete time
signal processing,digital filter designers  handbook and practical
analog and digital filter design(if u knew some more books send the
link of the same).Then decided to design a FIR filter to that can
support upto 256 taps and generated the coefficients using equiripple
design method with direct form 1 structure using the FDA tool of
MATLAB.

I have done systemverilog coding for implementing the design in
FPGA...for that i will take coefficients and input samples generated
from MATLAB as inputs to the filter and compute  the response...

To verify it i have done impulse test and checked in the simulation
all the coefficients are coming out...As suggested by jerry i will be
doing overflow test before implementing the design in FPGA...And i
asked this group to knew if there r other test cases to make my design
more perfect...

I think i explained from my side...Is it clear to u...give your
comments and suggestions


On Jun 4, 2:00&#4294967295;am, Mikolaj <sterowanie_komputer...@hahapoczta.onet.pl>
wrote:
> On 03-06-2008 at 20:51:33 Jerry Avins <j...@ieee.org> wrote: > > > Mikolaj wrote: > >> On 03-06-2008 at 15:56:58 Jerry Avins <j...@ieee.org> wrote: > > >>> It's a language problem. give him a break. > >> (...) > >> &#4294967295;I don't think so. It's a general understanding problem. > >> I was trying to show him a way but it is useless. > >> He is just asking and not answering. > >> He's acting entirely blindly. > > > So let's give him the tools to prove you right. > > > Jerry > > But he is not willing to co-operate. > I think he don't want to understand, > don't want to learn, don't want to read > and don't want to talk. > He didn't read the netiquette, this is one example. > He is trying to verify an apple > an does not see anything strange with that. > > -- > Mikolaj
Reply by Mikolaj June 3, 20082008-06-03
On 03-06-2008 at 20:51:33 Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> wrote:

> Mikolaj wrote: >> On 03-06-2008 at 15:56:58 Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> wrote: >> >>> It's a language problem. give him a break. >> (...) >> I don't think so. It's a general understanding problem. >> I was trying to show him a way but it is useless. >> He is just asking and not answering. >> He's acting entirely blindly. > > So let's give him the tools to prove you right. > > Jerry
But he is not willing to co-operate. I think he don't want to understand, don't want to learn, don't want to read and don't want to talk. He didn't read the netiquette, this is one example. He is trying to verify an apple an does not see anything strange with that. -- Mikolaj
Reply by Jerry Avins June 3, 20082008-06-03
Mikolaj wrote:
> On 03-06-2008 at 15:56:58 Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> wrote: > > >> It's a language problem. give him a break. > (...) > > I don't think so. It's a general understanding problem. > I was trying to show him a way but it is useless. > He is just asking and not answering. > He's acting entirely blindly.
So let's give him the tools to prove you right. Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Reply by Jerry Avins June 3, 20082008-06-03
dbell wrote:
> On Jun 3, 12:07 pm, Jerry Avins <j...@ieee.org> wrote:
...
>> It means: >> >>> Feed the filter with all maximum values, setting the sign sequence to >>> the same as the filter coefficients > > Jerry, > > Shouldn't these data signs be in reverse order of the coefficient > signs if they are being fed in? > > Dirk
Yes. To keep the explanation as simple as I believe the problem is, I assumed a symmetrical filter and a lack of interest in the sign of the result. Thank you for making the condition explicit. ... Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. &#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;&#4294967295;
Reply by dbell June 3, 20082008-06-03
On Jun 3, 12:07&#4294967295;pm, Jerry Avins <j...@ieee.org> wrote:
> faz wrote: > > 1. Is it really an FIR filter? > > Yes it is a FIR filter > > I didn't mean to ask. It was a suggestion for what to do. > > > &#4294967295;2. Does the filter behave according to the design? (is the code > > good)? > > &#4294967295;3. Is the filter's impulse response correct (is the design good)? > > I have done impulse test all the coefficients are coming out properly > > That's most of it. Have you verified that the impulse response has the > correct response? > > > &#4294967295;4. Will the worst-case signal cause the filter to saturate? > > I dont know wat this means > > It means: > > > Feed the filter with all maximum values, setting the sign sequence to > > &#4294967295; &#4294967295; &#4294967295;the same as the filter coefficients
Jerry, Shouldn't these data signs be in reverse order of the coefficient signs if they are being fed in? Dirk
> > > I will do this test..by the way feeding with maximum value should be > > same as maximum value in filter coefficients?? > > It should be the largest sample you will apply. Usually, full scale. > > > Thanks for your suggestions.... > > You're welcome. > > Jerry > -- > Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
Reply by Mikolaj June 3, 20082008-06-03
On 03-06-2008 at 15:56:58 Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> wrote:


> It's a language problem. give him a break.
(...) I don't think so. It's a general understanding problem. I was trying to show him a way but it is useless. He is just asking and not answering. He's acting entirely blindly. -- Mikolaj
Reply by Jerry Avins June 3, 20082008-06-03
faz wrote:
> 1. Is it really an FIR filter? > Yes it is a FIR filter
I didn't mean to ask. It was a suggestion for what to do.
> 2. Does the filter behave according to the design? (is the code > good)? > 3. Is the filter's impulse response correct (is the design good)? > I have done impulse test all the coefficients are coming out properly
That's most of it. Have you verified that the impulse response has the correct response?
> 4. Will the worst-case signal cause the filter to saturate? > I dont know wat this means
It means:
> Feed the filter with all maximum values, setting the sign sequence to > the same as the filter coefficients > > I will do this test..by the way feeding with maximum value should be > same as maximum value in filter coefficients??
It should be the largest sample you will apply. Usually, full scale.
> Thanks for your suggestions....
You're welcome. Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.