Forums

Lyrtech PADK

Started by danielaqwe May 4, 2008
I bought a Lyrtech PADK and have some question I cannot get answered.
Lyrtech's documentation does not say.

Can I single-step (debug) my code from within the CCStudio via the USB?
If yes, how do I do that?
Or DO I need to spend another $1500 for a JTAG emulator.
(I also have a $500 board with a 6713, which got a JTAG emulator
onboard.)

To be sure, the board does runs the demo programs when I download them
with the Lyrtech UsbLoader.exe program (not part of CCStudio).
Example: UsbGpio.prj

AJS
Daniel-

> I bought a Lyrtech PADK and have some question I cannot get answered.
> Lyrtech's documentation does not say.
>
> Can I single-step (debug) my code from within the CCStudio via the USB?
> If yes, how do I do that?
> Or DO I need to spend another $1500 for a JTAG emulator.
> (I also have a $500 board with a 6713, which got a JTAG emulator
> onboard.)
>
> To be sure, the board does runs the demo programs when I download them
> with the Lyrtech UsbLoader.exe program (not part of CCStudio).
> Example: UsbGpio.prj

I'm not familiar with the PADK board, so I don't know, but I'm going to guess the setup is that you use CCS to
generate programs (executable files in COFF format) and separate Lyrtech software to download, run, and control the
programs.

I assume the PADK board has a standard JTAG header. If so, check the Lyrtech documentation for how to connect a JTAG
emulator and use it with CCS for debug purposes. If the PADK could use its USB port for CCS-controlled debug, I'm
sure the Lyrtech doc would point that out.

-Jeff
On TIK platforms, it is possible to debug with USB, but you need to install a specific driver for CCS for that.
It is not clear from lyrtech online documentation that they allow that.
did you contact their support?

> To: c...
> From: d...@yahoo.com
> Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 23:56:51 +0000
> Subject: [c6x] Lyrtech PADK
>
> I bought a Lyrtech PADK and have some question I cannot get answered.
> Lyrtech's documentation does not say.
>
> Can I single-step (debug) my code from within the CCStudio via the USB?
> If yes, how do I do that?
> Or DO I need to spend another $1500 for a JTAG emulator.
> (I also have a $500 board with a 6713, which got a JTAG emulator
> onboard.)
>
> To be sure, the board does runs the demo programs when I download them
> with the Lyrtech UsbLoader.exe program (not part of CCStudio).
> Example: UsbGpio.prj
>
> AJS
>
>
Christophe-

> On TIK platforms, it is possible to debug with USB, but you need to install
> a specific driver for CCS for that.
> It is not clear from lyrtech online documentation that they allow that.
> did you contact their support?

What's a "TIK" platform? I don't see any reference to this on TI's site. Do you mean a Spectrum Digital board, which
have USB interface and onboard JTAG emulation circuitry?

-Jeff

>> To: c...
>> From: d...@yahoo.com
>> Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 23:56:51 +0000
>> Subject: [c6x] Lyrtech PADK
>>
>> I bought a Lyrtech PADK and have some question I cannot get answered.
>> Lyrtech's documentation does not say.
>>
>> Can I single-step (debug) my code from within the CCStudio via the USB?
>> If yes, how do I do that?
>> Or DO I need to spend another $1500 for a JTAG emulator.
>> (I also have a $500 board with a 6713, which got a JTAG emulator
>> onboard.)
>>
>> To be sure, the board does runs the demo programs when I download them
>> with the Lyrtech UsbLoader.exe program (not part of CCStudio).
>> Example: UsbGpio.prj
>>
>> AJS
>>
>
sorry I meant TI platform the K was a ripp on the keyboard.

> To: c...@hotmail.com
> CC: c...
> From: j...@signalogic.com
> Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 07:56:20 -0500
> Subject: RE: [c6x] Lyrtech PADK
>
> Christophe-
>
> > On TIK platforms, it is possible to debug with USB, but you need to install
> > a specific driver for CCS for that.
> > It is not clear from lyrtech online documentation that they allow that.
> > did you contact their support?
>
> What's a "TIK" platform? I don't see any reference to this on TI's site. Do you mean a Spectrum Digital board, which
> have USB interface and onboard JTAG emulation circuitry?
>
> -Jeff
>
> >> To: c...
> >> From: d...@yahoo.com
> >> Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 23:56:51 +0000
> >> Subject: [c6x] Lyrtech PADK
> >>
> >> I bought a Lyrtech PADK and have some question I cannot get answered.
> >> Lyrtech's documentation does not say.
> >>
> >> Can I single-step (debug) my code from within the CCStudio via the USB?
> >> If yes, how do I do that?
> >> Or DO I need to spend another $1500 for a JTAG emulator.
> >> (I also have a $500 board with a 6713, which got a JTAG emulator
> >> onboard.)
> >>
> >> To be sure, the board does runs the demo programs when I download them
> >> with the Lyrtech UsbLoader.exe program (not part of CCStudio).
> >> Example: UsbGpio.prj
> >>
> >> AJS
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
Christophe-

> sorry I meant TI platform the K was a ripp on the keyboard.

Ok. I don't know any boards out there besides Spectrum Digital that contain onboard emulation allowing a direct USB
connection to CCS. If that's true, then Lyrtech wouldn't have it either.

Does anyone know of any other boards that do what Spectrum Digital does? Maybe SEED in Shenzhen?

My understanding is that in order to provide CCS compatibility, an emulator vendor must obtain an "emulation license
agreement" from TI, and this includes certain restrictions, including separating emulation circuitry from the DSP;
i.e. it can't be directly on the same board as the DSP. Does anyone know if that's correct?

-Jeff

>> To: c...@hotmail.com
>> CC: c...
>> From: j...@signalogic.com
>> Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 07:56:20 -0500
>> Subject: RE: [c6x] Lyrtech PADK
>>
>> Christophe-
>>
>> > On TIK platforms, it is possible to debug with USB, but you need to install
>> > a specific driver for CCS for that.
>> > It is not clear from lyrtech online documentation that they allow that.
>> > did you contact their support?
>>
>> What's a "TIK" platform? I don't see any reference to this on TI's site. Do you mean a Spectrum Digital board,
>> which
>> have USB interface and onboard JTAG emulation circuitry?
>>
>> -Jeff
>>
>> >> To: c...
>> >> From: d...@yahoo.com
>> >> Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 23:56:51 +0000
>> >> Subject: [c6x] Lyrtech PADK
>> >>
>> >> I bought a Lyrtech PADK and have some question I cannot get answered.
>> >> Lyrtech's documentation does not say.
>> >>
>> >> Can I single-step (debug) my code from within the CCStudio via the USB?
>> >> If yes, how do I do that?
>> >> Or DO I need to spend another $1500 for a JTAG emulator.
>> >> (I also have a $500 board with a 6713, which got a JTAG emulator
>> >> onboard.)
>> >>
>> >> To be sure, the board does runs the demo programs when I download them
>> >> with the Lyrtech UsbLoader.exe program (not part of CCStudio).
>> >> Example: UsbGpio.prj
>> >>
>> >> AJS
Jeff,

On 5/5/08, Jeff Brower wrote:
>
> Christophe-
>
> > sorry I meant TI platform the K was a ripp on the keyboard.
>
> Ok. I don't know any boards out there besides Spectrum Digital that
> contain onboard emulation allowing a direct USB
> connection to CCS. If that's true, then Lyrtech wouldn't have it either.
>
> Does anyone know of any other boards that do what Spectrum Digital does?
> Maybe SEED in Shenzhen?
>
> My understanding is that in order to provide CCS compatibility, an
> emulator vendor must obtain an "emulation license
> agreement" from TI, and this includes certain restrictions, including
> separating emulation circuitry from the DSP;
> i.e. it can't be directly on the same board as the DSP. Does anyone know
> if that's correct?
That is not correct correct, Jeff.

There are a few vendors that offer "on board emulation" - most of the ones
that I am aware of are PCI cards. They are very high $$ boards with
multiple c62, c67, c64, or c64+ devicesthat function as "DSP farms, mostly
for specific applications like digital radio. I have seen advertisements for
USB products with "on board" emulators from GAOtek.

The license agreements that I have seen appear to allow the lisensee to
develop emulator products without regard to "on board" or separate
emulators. This, of course, could be changed by TI at any time [although I
can not think of why they would want to change it].

NOTE:
The following statement represents a personal opinion based on my awareness
and assessment of the market and is accurate to the best of my ability.
The main reason that we do not see such boards relates back to TI. The basic
source code that one gets with a TI license [this is for an XDS510 class
emulator - not XDS560] is designed to communicate with a TI SN74ACT8990 JTAG
bus controller. This part was used on the original XDS510 that uses 10+
year old technology with 5v I/O, is not "lead free", and was over priced the
last time that I checked. Designers must surround the part with an FPGA [or
discrete logic] to protect everything else from the 5v signals. This pretty
much discourages new emulator designs [either 'on board' or 'separate' ] for
TI products unless a company has considerable resources and JTAG expertise.
Currently Lauterbach, Signum, and SD are the only non-TI companies that I am
aware of that provide TI DSP emulators that are based on a different JTAG
scan controller.

mikedunn

-Jeff
>
> >> To: c...@hotmail.com
> >> CC: c...
> >> From: j...@signalogic.com
> >> Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 07:56:20 -0500
> >> Subject: RE: [c6x] Lyrtech PADK
> >>
> >> Christophe-
> >>
> >> > On TIK platforms, it is possible to debug with USB, but you need to
> install
> >> > a specific driver for CCS for that.
> >> > It is not clear from lyrtech online documentation that they allow
> that.
> >> > did you contact their support?
> >>
> >> What's a "TIK" platform? I don't see any reference to this on TI's
> site. Do you mean a Spectrum Digital board,
> >> which
> >> have USB interface and onboard JTAG emulation circuitry?
> >>
> >> -Jeff
> >>
> >> >> To: c...
> >> >> From: d...@yahoo.com
> >> >> Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 23:56:51 +0000
> >> >> Subject: [c6x] Lyrtech PADK
> >> >>
> >> >> I bought a Lyrtech PADK and have some question I cannot get
> answered.
> >> >> Lyrtech's documentation does not say.
> >> >>
> >> >> Can I single-step (debug) my code from within the CCStudio via the
> USB?
> >> >> If yes, how do I do that?
> >> >> Or DO I need to spend another $1500 for a JTAG emulator.
> >> >> (I also have a $500 board with a 6713, which got a JTAG emulator
> >> >> onboard.)
> >> >>
> >> >> To be sure, the board does runs the demo programs when I download
> them
> >> >> with the Lyrtech UsbLoader.exe program (not part of CCStudio).
> >> >> Example: UsbGpio.prj
> >> >>
> >> >> AJS
>

--
www.dsprelated.com/blogs-1/nf/Mike_Dunn.php
I did not have a look to schematics, but since JTAG and USB are serial links I believe there is a way to connect them or to convert USB to JTAG and vice versa.
but on the PADK design, it seems USB is connected to EMIF then I would say it is maybe not possible and there is a need for a proper JTAG emulator to debug applications.

To: j...@signalogic.com
CC: c...@hotmail.com; c...
From: m...@gmail.com
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 11:49:20 -0500
Subject: Re: [c6x] Lyrtech PADK

Jeff,
On 5/5/08, Jeff Brower wrote:

Christophe-

> sorry I meant TI platform the K was a ripp on the keyboard.

Ok. I don't know any boards out there besides Spectrum Digital that contain onboard emulation allowing a direct USB

connection to CCS. If that's true, then Lyrtech wouldn't have it either.

Does anyone know of any other boards that do what Spectrum Digital does? Maybe SEED in Shenzhen?

My understanding is that in order to provide CCS compatibility, an emulator vendor must obtain an "emulation license

agreement" from TI, and this includes certain restrictions, including separating emulation circuitry from the DSP;
i.e. it can't be directly on the same board as the DSP. Does anyone know if that's correct?

That is not correct correct, Jeff.

There are a few vendors that offer "on board emulation" - most of the ones that I am aware of are PCI cards. They are very high $$ boards with multiple c62, c67, c64, or c64+ devicesthat function as "DSP farms, mostly for specific applications like digital radio. I have seen advertisements for USB products with "on board" emulators from GAOtek.

The license agreements that I have seen appear to allow the lisensee to develop emulator products without regard to "on board" or separate emulators. This, of course, could be changed by TI at any time [although I can not think of why they would want to change it].

NOTE:
The following statement represents a personal opinion based on my awareness and assessment of the market and is accurate to the best of my ability.
The main reason that we do not see such boards relates back to TI. The basic source code that one gets with a TI license [this is for an XDS510 class emulator - not XDS560] is designed to communicate with a TI SN74ACT8990 JTAG bus controller. This part was used on the original XDS510 that uses 10+ year old technology with 5v I/O, is not "lead free", and was over priced the last time that I checked. Designers must surround the part with an FPGA [or discrete logic] to protect everything else from the 5v signals. This pretty much discourages new emulator designs [either 'on board' or 'separate' ] for TI products unless a company has considerable resources and JTAG expertise. Currently Lauterbach, Signum, and SD are the only non-TI companies that I am aware of that provide TI DSP emulators that are based on a different JTAG scan controller.

mikedunn

-Jeff
>> To: c...@hotmail.com

>> CC: c...
>> From: j...@signalogic.com

>> Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 07:56:20 -0500
>> Subject: RE: [c6x] Lyrtech PADK
>>
>> Christophe-
>>
>> > On TIK platforms, it is possible to debug with USB, but you need to install

>> > a specific driver for CCS for that.
>> > It is not clear from lyrtech online documentation that they allow that.
>> > did you contact their support?
>>
>> What's a "TIK" platform? I don't see any reference to this on TI's site. Do you mean a Spectrum Digital board,

>> which
>> have USB interface and onboard JTAG emulation circuitry?
>>
>> -Jeff
>>
>> >> To: c...

>> >> From: d...@yahoo.com
>> >> Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 23:56:51 +0000

>> >> Subject: [c6x] Lyrtech PADK
>> >>
>> >> I bought a Lyrtech PADK and have some question I cannot get answered.
>> >> Lyrtech's documentation does not say.

>> >>
>> >> Can I single-step (debug) my code from within the CCStudio via the USB?
>> >> If yes, how do I do that?
>> >> Or DO I need to spend another $1500 for a JTAG emulator.

>> >> (I also have a $500 board with a 6713, which got a JTAG emulator
>> >> onboard.)
>> >>
>> >> To be sure, the board does runs the demo programs when I download them

>> >> with the Lyrtech UsbLoader.exe program (not part of CCStudio).
>> >> Example: UsbGpio.prj
>> >>
>> >> AJS

--
www.dsprelated.com/blogs-1/nf/Mike_Dunn.php
Mike-
> On 5/5/08, Jeff Brower wrote:
>
> Christophe-
>
> > sorry I meant TI platform the K was a ripp on the keyboard.
>
> Ok. I don't know any boards out there besides Spectrum Digital that
> contain onboard emulation allowing a direct USB
> connection to CCS. If that's true, then Lyrtech wouldn't have it either.
>
> Does anyone know of any other boards that do what Spectrum Digital does?
> Maybe SEED in Shenzhen?
>
> My understanding is that in order to provide CCS compatibility, an
> emulator vendor must obtain an "emulation license
> agreement" from TI, and this includes certain restrictions, including
> separating emulation circuitry from the DSP;
> i.e. it can't be directly on the same board as the DSP. Does anyone know
> if that's correct?
> That is not correct correct, Jeff. There are a few vendors that offer "on board
> emulation" - most of the ones that I am aware of are PCI cards. They are very high
> $$ boards with multiple c62, c67, c64, or c64+ devicesthat function as "DSP farms,
> mostly for specific applications like digital radio. I have seen advertisements for
> USB products with "on board" emulators from GAOtek. The license agreements that I
> have seen appear to allow the lisensee to develop emulator products without regard
> to "on board" or separate emulators. This, of course, could be changed by TI at any
> time [although I can not think of why they would want to change it]. NOTE:The
> following statement represents a personal opinion based on my awareness and
> assessment of the market and is accurate to the best of my ability.The main reason
> that we do not see such boards relates back to TI. The basic source code that one
> gets with a TI license [this is for an XDS510 class emulator - not XDS560] is
> designed to communicate with a TI SN74ACT8990 JTAG bus controller. This part was
> used on the original XDS510 that uses 10+ year old technology with 5v I/O, is not
> "lead free", and was over priced the last time that I checked. Designers must
> surround the part with an FPGA [or discrete logic] to protect everything else from
> the 5v signals. This pretty much discourages new emulator designs [either 'on
> board' or 'separate' ] for TI products unless a company has considerable resources
> and JTAG expertise. Currently Lauterbach, Signum, and SD are the only non-TI
> companies that I am aware of that provide TI DSP emulators that are based on a
> different JTAG scan controller.

What you are saying is that in order to make a DSK type of board there are
engineering, board space, and cost challenges. I can buy into that, but it still
doesn't answer the CCS + DSK question. Your scenario assumes the customer has paid
USD 3600 or approx for a full JTAG emulation version of CCS. My questions come from
the DSK perspective (sorry if I wasn't making it clear before). If a vendor builds a
DSK type of board intended to work with the "DSK version" of CCS, then again, my
understanding is the vendor faces TI license agreement obstacles.

Otherwise we would see alternatives to Spectrum Digital, but we don't. For example
DSK boards that are smaller, have more/different analog I/O, high-speed host
interface, network interface, FPGA coprocessor, etc. Lots of things that SD could do
but they don't, either for marketing reasons or lack of board design expertise.

Also can you point me to one of the GAOtek links? I searched their site but couldn't
find anything that mentions or implies onboard emulation. Thanks.

-Jeff
> On 5/5/08, Jeff Brower wrote:
>
> Christophe-
>
> > sorry I meant TI platform the K was a ripp on the keyboard.
>
> Ok. I don't know any boards out there besides Spectrum Digital that
> contain onboard emulation allowing a direct USB
> connection to CCS. If that's true, then Lyrtech wouldn't have it either.
>
> Does anyone know of any other boards that do what Spectrum Digital does?
> Maybe SEED in Shenzhen?
>
> My understanding is that in order to provide CCS compatibility, an
> emulator vendor must obtain an "emulation license
> agreement" from TI, and this includes certain restrictions, including
> separating emulation circuitry from the DSP;
> i.e. it can't be directly on the same board as the DSP. Does anyone know
> if that's correct?
> That is not correct correct, Jeff. There are a few vendors that offer "on board
> emulation" - most of the ones that I am aware of are PCI cards. They are very high
> $$ boards with multiple c62, c67, c64, or c64+ devicesthat function as "DSP farms,
> mostly for specific applications like digital radio. I have seen advertisements for
> USB products with "on board" emulators from GAOtek. The license agreements that I
> have seen appear to allow the lisensee to develop emulator products without regard
> to "on board" or separate emulators. This, of course, could be changed by TI at any
> time [although I can not think of why they would want to change it]. NOTE:The
> following statement represents a personal opinion based on my awareness and
> assessment of the market and is accurate to the best of my ability.The main reason
> that we do not see such boards relates back to TI. The basic source code that one
> gets with a TI license [this is for an XDS510 class emulator - not XDS560] is
> designed to communicate with a TI SN74ACT8990 JTAG bus controller. This part was
> used on the original XDS510 that uses 10+ year old technology with 5v I/O, is not
> "lead free", and was over priced the last time that I checked. Designers must
> surround the part with an FPGA [or discrete logic] to protect everything else from
> the 5v signals. This pretty much discourages new emulator designs [either 'on
> board' or 'separate' ] for TI products unless a company has considerable resources
> and JTAG expertise. Currently Lauterbach, Signum, and SD are the only non-TI
> companies that I am aware of that provide TI DSP emulators that are based on a
> different JTAG scan controller.
>
> mikedunn
>
> -Jeff
>
> >> To: c...@hotmail.com
> >> CC: c...
> >> From: j...@signalogic.com
> >> Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 07:56:20 -0500
> >> Subject: RE: [c6x] Lyrtech PADK
> >>
> >> Christophe-
> >>
> >> > On TIK platforms, it is possible to debug with USB, but you need to
> install
> >> > a specific driver for CCS for that.
> >> > It is not clear from lyrtech online documentation that they allow
> that.
> >> > did you contact their support?
> >>
> >> What's a "TIK" platform? I don't see any reference to this on TI's
> site. Do you mean a Spectrum Digital board,
> >> which
> >> have USB interface and onboard JTAG emulation circuitry?
> >>
> >> -Jeff
> >>
> >> >> To: c...
> >> >> From: d...@yahoo.com
> >> >> Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 23:56:51 +0000
> >> >> Subject: [c6x] Lyrtech PADK
> >> >>
> >> >> I bought a Lyrtech PADK and have some question I cannot get
> answered.
> >> >> Lyrtech's documentation does not say.
> >> >>
> >> >> Can I single-step (debug) my code from within the CCStudio via the
> USB?
> >> >> If yes, how do I do that?
> >> >> Or DO I need to spend another $1500 for a JTAG emulator.
> >> >> (I also have a $500 board with a 6713, which got a JTAG emulator
> >> >> onboard.)
> >> >>
> >> >> To be sure, the board does runs the demo programs when I download
> them
> >> >> with the Lyrtech UsbLoader.exe program (not part of CCStudio).
> >> >> Example: UsbGpio.prj
> >> >>
> >> >> AJS
Daniel-

> So the Lyrtech PADK is virtually useless without a JTAG emulator.
> The Lyrtech cost $1500 and is the only eval kit with a C6727 ???

I Googled for

EVM 6727

and it looks there are some other relatively low-cost 6727 boards out there.

> Spectrum Digital has an eval kit for ~$500 which has a built in
> JTAG (on the same board), but it does only have a C6713
> Spectrum Digital does not have a C6727 eval kit,... why not.

I don't know the answer to that.

-Jeff

> --- In c..., "Jeff Brower" wrote:
> >
> > Christophe-
> >
> > > sorry I meant TI platform the K was a ripp on the keyboard.
> >
> > Ok. I don't know any boards out there besides Spectrum Digital
> that contain onboard emulation allowing a direct USB
> > connection to CCS. If that's true, then Lyrtech wouldn't have it
> either.
> >
> > Does anyone know of any other boards that do what Spectrum Digital
> does? Maybe SEED in Shenzhen?
> >
> > My understanding is that in order to provide CCS compatibility, an
> emulator vendor must obtain an "emulation license
> > agreement" from TI, and this includes certain restrictions,
> including separating emulation circuitry from the DSP;
> > i.e. it can't be directly on the same board as the DSP. Does
> anyone know if that's correct?
> >
> > -Jeff
> >
> > >> To: christophe_blouet@...
> > >> CC: c...
> > >> From: jbrower@...
> > >> Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 07:56:20 -0500
> > >> Subject: RE: [c6x] Lyrtech PADK
> > >>
> > >> Christophe-
> > >>
> > >> > On TIK platforms, it is possible to debug with USB, but you
> need to install
> > >> > a specific driver for CCS for that.
> > >> > It is not clear from lyrtech online documentation that they
> allow that.
> > >> > did you contact their support?
> > >>
> > >> What's a "TIK" platform? I don't see any reference to this on
> TI's site. Do you mean a Spectrum Digital board,
> > >> which
> > >> have USB interface and onboard JTAG emulation circuitry?
> > >>
> > >> -Jeff
> > >>
> > >> >> To: c...
> > >> >> From: danielaqwe@...
> > >> >> Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 23:56:51 +0000
> > >> >> Subject: [c6x] Lyrtech PADK
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I bought a Lyrtech PADK and have some question I cannot get
> answered.
> > >> >> Lyrtech's documentation does not say.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Can I single-step (debug) my code from within the CCStudio
> via the USB?
> > >> >> If yes, how do I do that?
> > >> >> Or DO I need to spend another $1500 for a JTAG emulator.
> > >> >> (I also have a $500 board with a 6713, which got a JTAG
> emulator
> > >> >> onboard.)
> > >> >>
> > >> >> To be sure, the board does runs the demo programs when I
> download them
> > >> >> with the Lyrtech UsbLoader.exe program (not part of
> CCStudio).
> > >> >> Example: UsbGpio.prj
> > >> >>
> > >> >> AJS
> >