If you look here: http://www.elenco.com/ They sell something called a "snap circuit" which looks like it would be OK for young kids (no soldering involved). Regards -- Adrian Hey
OT: Good EE books and project kits for little kids
Started by ●October 25, 2008
Reply by ●November 28, 20082008-11-28
Reply by ●November 28, 20082008-11-28
Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> writes:> [...] > There was another kit maker -- the name escapes me for now -- and I > earned a good bit of spending money by assembling their audio > amplifiers for a Hi-Fi dealer whose shop was in the basement floor of > the Thalia Theater in Manhattan.Was it Adcom? I think they used to have kits as well as pre-built stuff. -- % Randy Yates % "The dreamer, the unwoken fool - %% Fuquay-Varina, NC % in dreams, no pain will kiss the brow..." %%% 919-577-9882 % %%%% <yates@ieee.org> % 'Eldorado Overture', *Eldorado*, ELO http://www.digitalsignallabs.com
Reply by ●November 28, 20082008-11-28
Jerry Avins wrote: (snip)> I couldn't afford Heathkits early on. I learned electronics from the > ARRL Handbook and the back section of the RCA Receiving Tube Manual. > There was another kit maker -- the name escapes me for now -- and I > earned a good bit of spending money by assembling their audio amplifiers > for a Hi-Fi dealer whose shop was in the basement floor of the Thalia > Theater in Manhattan.I believe I had at least one Knight kit. That was a pair of walkie-talkies that never worked quite as well as one might think they should. -- glen
Reply by ●November 28, 20082008-11-28
Randy Yates wrote:> Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> writes: >> [...] >> There was another kit maker -- the name escapes me for now -- and I >> earned a good bit of spending money by assembling their audio >> amplifiers for a Hi-Fi dealer whose shop was in the basement floor of >> the Thalia Theater in Manhattan. > > Was it Adcom? I think they used to have kits as well as pre-built stuff.No. I just remembered: Knightkits. I broke into that business when I went to the movies with friends and saw that the store sold the assembled power amplifiers. I asked what he would pay for assembly and he named a price. I didn't think I could reasonably do it for that, but agreed to try one when he told me that several other assemblers found it worth while. He have me a kit to take home without checking the address or phone I had given him, which impressed me. I brought the finished amplifier back a week later and collected my fee. I declined to take another because it had taken me too long. Before I left, he turned it over for a look, then asked me how much I thought the work was worth. I told him just under double what he had paid for the first one and he agreed. When I returned with the second amplifier, I saw my first one in the display window, belly up. That was back before circuit boards, but the parts layout nearly looked like one. He thought it was good advertising. In fact, my chassis had measurably less hum than his typical ones, but only instruments showed the difference with woofers then typical. Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. �����������������������������������������������������������������������
Reply by ●November 29, 20082008-11-29
On Oct 28, 6:09�am, cincy...@gmail.com wrote:> On Oct 25, 3:38�pm, Vladimir Vassilevsky <antispam_bo...@hotmail.com> > wrote: > > > Can you suggest very basic EE tutorials, meccanos, project kits for > > little children? Something that should allow building and trying the > > simple circuits like amplifiers, oscillators, photosensors, logic gates, > > microprocessors etc. without soldering the parts; with an accompanying > > book explaining the operation. �Also, it would be great to have an entry > > level book on electronics for little kids. Can you recommend one? > > > Vladimir Vassilevsky > > DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultanthttp://www.abvolt.com > > SnapCircuits (http://www.snapcircuits.net) aren't too bad. I once > played with some at a children's museum; there was a decent variety of > components (R, C, L, BJTs, diodes, ...), but I think they're a little > light on the theory. It's more of the "put this here, put that there, > and watch the light blink" variety. Pretty easy to put together, > though, even for a small child. For my money, though, I'd probably > just use a simple breadboard: more connectivity and the freedom to use > a lot more types of parts. Then you're just in need of some project > ideas. > > JasonSnap Circuits is too simplistic for a 10 y/o in my experience. The spring and wire consoles are the next step. My 10 y/o only wants to play with junk parts and clip leads any more. He gets to use the soldering iron and Dremel tool on occasion too. John John
Reply by ●December 6, 20082008-12-06
On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 10:38:20 -0500, Ben Bradley <ben_nospam_bradley@frontiernet.net> wrote:>On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 05:40:38 -0700, Rick Lyons ><R.Lyons@_BOGUS_ieee.org> wrote: > >>On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 14:38:57 -0500, Vladimir Vassilevsky >><antispam_bogus@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>>Can you suggest very basic EE tutorials, meccanos, project kits for >>>little children? Something that should allow building and trying the >>>simple circuits like amplifiers, oscillators, photosensors, logic gates, >>>microprocessors etc. without soldering the parts; with an accompanying >>>book explaining the operation. Also, it would be great to have an entry >>>level book on electronics for little kids. Can you recommend one? >>> >>> >>>Vladimir Vassilevsky >>>DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant >>>http://www.abvolt.com >> >>Hi Vladimir, >> sorry but I can't offer you any advice. >> >>For all it's astounding progress over recent >>decades, the saddest story in the field of >>electronics is that you can't buy Heathkit kits >>any more. > > Yes, it's a shame, and it's all because of progress. Back when kit >companies started, it was a selling feature that you could save money >by buying kits and assembling them yourself versus buying a >factory-made unit at the store. Long story short, assembly automation >and other efficiencies of mass production were developed, and >factories were moved to third-world countries where labor costs are >much lower, so one of the biggest selling points for kits disappeared. > >>Those kits were the most wonderful >>way for a young kid to learn electronics. > > Perhaps the most valuable part of Heathkits for teaching >electronics was an "ancilliary" part of the manual that you never had >to read to make or operate the kit, called the "Circuit Description." >These were well-written and went through the schematic (also included >in the manual, of course) section by section, often telling why >specific components were there and describing their exact functions. I >built my first Heathkit at age 8 and didn't understand much of the >description, but sometime between there and the teenage years I read >through just about every Heathkit manual my father had. Also, the >first 100 or so pages of the ARRL Handbook was (and I think still is >in more current editions) a highly condensed electronics course. > > I was about to suggest robot kits such as Vex and Lego Mindstorms. >They're undoubtedly fun and to an extent educational, but they have >too many "black boxes" (microcontrollers and prebuilt I/O and motor >driver circuits) to really teach much about electronics. > > I remember Knight-Kits and perhaps some other kit makers too (I >recall Eico made much of their equiment available as kits, but my >father always bought them used or assembled new), but if any of those >manuals described the circuits, it was surely not nearly as in depth >as in the Heathkit manuals.Hi Ben, Good God!! I haven't seen the name "EICO" in over forty years. I recall having an EICO voltmeter as a teenager. It was about half the size of a toaster, AC powered, and I felt sooo "cool" having my own piece of electronic equipment. (Don't get the wrong idea. I wasn't a super geek. I played baseball and football with my pals, and caused my school teachers the same amount of heartache as the other guys.) I remember sittin' at the workbench in the basement measuring the resistance of old resistors that I cut out of old (damaged) televisions. That was kinda neat. Then I tried to measure the resistance of a large electrolytic capacitor. I was puzzled that the cap's resistance initially appeared to be a low value, but then quickly became a large resistance. The really weird part for me, at that time, was when I tried to measure the cap's resistance a second time, the resistance started out as a high resistance. Thanks to the "U.S. Navy Electronics Manual, Part I" (with the dark blue cover) I eventually learned what was happening when I tried to measure the resistance of an electrolytic capacitor. Sheece! Those were the good ol' days.> Unbuilt Heathkits are collectible and valuable nowadays (check them >out on eBay). I've wondered (for a very short moment, then I came to >my senses) if there's enough money in it make some "repro" Heathkit >kits. A lot of stuff would need to be worked out, such as getting >permission to reproduce the manuals (yes, there's still a vestige of >Heath left, as Heath Educational Systems, electronics and computer >courses aimed at adults).What a nice idea. Darn, I'd love to work on a project like that, but my initial guess is that such an effort is doomed from the beginning. I say that because I was recently forced to visit a family for three days at their vacation home during Thanksgiving. That family has two teenage boys. the boys rode their bikes for an hour or two in the morning, but spent their entire afternoons playing a video game. The game was fantastically violent, hectic, stressful, and entertaining to the boys. (The game was "Gear Wars", "War Gears", or something like that.) After dinner, they returned to the video game and played all evening, ... even beyond the time the parents went to bed. That went on for three straight days! I AM NOT JOKING, Ben. So how do you convince such boys to become interested in building a little four-transistor AM radio kit, or maybe an amplifier, or a volt-ohmmeter? I don't think it's possible in our current culture. (I suppose that situation partially explains why American-born student enrollment in engineering colleges has been in noticeable decline over recent years.) See Ya', [-Rick-]
Reply by ●December 7, 20082008-12-07
>On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 10:38:20 -0500, Ben Bradley ><ben_nospam_bradley@frontiernet.net> wrote: > >>On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 05:40:38 -0700, Rick Lyons >><R.Lyons@_BOGUS_ieee.org> wrote: >> >>>On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 14:38:57 -0500, Vladimir Vassilevsky >>><antispam_bogus@hotmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>Can you suggest very basic EE tutorials, meccanos, project kits for >>>>little children? Something that should allow building and trying the >>>>simple circuits like amplifiers, oscillators, photosensors, logicgates,>>>>microprocessors etc. without soldering the parts; with an accompanying>>>>book explaining the operation. Also, it would be great to have anentry>>>>level book on electronics for little kids. Can you recommend one? >>>> >>>> >>>>Vladimir Vassilevsky >>>>DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant >>>>http://www.abvolt.com >>> >>>Hi Vladimir, >>> sorry but I can't offer you any advice. >>> >>>For all it's astounding progress over recent >>>decades, the saddest story in the field of >>>electronics is that you can't buy Heathkit kits >>>any more. >> >> Yes, it's a shame, and it's all because of progress. Back when kit >>companies started, it was a selling feature that you could save money >>by buying kits and assembling them yourself versus buying a >>factory-made unit at the store. Long story short, assembly automation >>and other efficiencies of mass production were developed, and >>factories were moved to third-world countries where labor costs are >>much lower, so one of the biggest selling points for kits disappeared. >> >>>Those kits were the most wonderful >>>way for a young kid to learn electronics. >> >> Perhaps the most valuable part of Heathkits for teaching >>electronics was an "ancilliary" part of the manual that you never had >>to read to make or operate the kit, called the "Circuit Description." >>These were well-written and went through the schematic (also included >>in the manual, of course) section by section, often telling why >>specific components were there and describing their exact functions. I >>built my first Heathkit at age 8 and didn't understand much of the >>description, but sometime between there and the teenage years I read >>through just about every Heathkit manual my father had. Also, the >>first 100 or so pages of the ARRL Handbook was (and I think still is >>in more current editions) a highly condensed electronics course. >> >> I was about to suggest robot kits such as Vex and Lego Mindstorms. >>They're undoubtedly fun and to an extent educational, but they have >>too many "black boxes" (microcontrollers and prebuilt I/O and motor >>driver circuits) to really teach much about electronics. >> >> I remember Knight-Kits and perhaps some other kit makers too (I >>recall Eico made much of their equiment available as kits, but my >>father always bought them used or assembled new), but if any of those >>manuals described the circuits, it was surely not nearly as in depth >>as in the Heathkit manuals. > >Hi Ben, > Good God!! I haven't seen the name "EICO" in over forty >years. I recall having an EICO voltmeter as a teenager. >It was about half the size of a toaster, AC powered, and I >felt sooo "cool" having my own piece of electronic equipment. >(Don't get the wrong idea. I wasn't a super geek. I >played baseball and football with my pals, and caused my >school teachers the same amount of heartache as the >other guys.) > >I remember sittin' at the workbench in the basement measuring >the resistance of old resistors that I cut out of old (damaged) >televisions. That was kinda neat. Then I tried to measure >the resistance of a large electrolytic capacitor. I was puzzled >that the cap's resistance initially appeared to be a low value, >but then quickly became a large resistance. The really weird >part for me, at that time, was when I tried to measure the >cap's resistance a second time, the resistance started out as >a high resistance. > >Thanks to the "U.S. Navy Electronics Manual, Part I" >(with the dark blue cover) I eventually learned what was happening >when I tried to measure the resistance of an electrolytic >capacitor. Sheece! Those were the good ol' days. > >> Unbuilt Heathkits are collectible and valuable nowadays (check them >>out on eBay). I've wondered (for a very short moment, then I came to >>my senses) if there's enough money in it make some "repro" Heathkit >>kits. A lot of stuff would need to be worked out, such as getting >>permission to reproduce the manuals (yes, there's still a vestige of >>Heath left, as Heath Educational Systems, electronics and computer >>courses aimed at adults). > >What a nice idea. Darn, I'd love to work on a project like that, >but my initial guess is that such an effort is doomed from >the beginning. I say that because I was recently forced to >visit a family for three days at their vacation home during >Thanksgiving. That family has two teenage boys. the boys >rode their bikes for an hour or two in the morning, but >spent their entire afternoons playing a video game. >The game was fantastically violent, hectic, stressful, and >entertaining to the boys. (The game was "Gear Wars", >"War Gears", or something like that.) > >After dinner, they returned to the video game and played >all evening, ... even beyond the time the parents went to >bed. That went on for three straight days! >I AM NOT JOKING, Ben. > >So how do you convince such boys to become interested in >building a little four-transistor AM radio kit, or >maybe an amplifier, or a volt-ohmmeter? I don't >think it's possible in our current culture. >(I suppose that situation partially explains why >American-born student enrollment in engineering >colleges has been in noticeable decline over recent years.) > >See Ya', >[-Rick-] >Rick, In the past I have not participated much at this site, but I read it on a regular basis. Your post above inspired me to add my 2 cents. I am in my early thirties and was fortunate enough to just miss the really explosive video game, internet and cell phone boom that captured the generations just younger than me while they were still in junior high and high school. When I was a teenager my electronics lab in the basement was usually more interesting than the video games of the time. I became interested in Physics at an early age and went on to get a PhD in EE. Anyway, I have noticed a troubling decline in the interest level of young people (many in my age bracket also) when it comes to basic concepts of physics, math and engineering. Even among young graduates that I have interviewed I notice this trend. I also know that cheating has become more pervasive in our universities and schools. I own a Playstation 3 (use it for the blu-ray player) and I have rented a couple games in the past. I will admit that they are more graphically interesting than the old Atari games. However, they still cannot replace the feeling of satisfaction I get from learning a new concept or understanding a new algorithm (they actually make me car sick, but that is obviously not a problem for the kids that play them for many hours). The real concern with all of the “toys” available these days is that it makes it harder for young people to really concentrate for a useful period of time without being distracted. Since it often takes a typical mortal several hours of good concentration to grasp many fundamental concepts in math, physics, or engineering, there has to be a trade-off. For young people who spend hours and hours surfing the internet, texting and talking on cell phones, and playing video games, there will be a proportionate void of knowledge about fundamental concepts. I do not see a solution to this problem except for parents to be more involved with teaching their kids the joys of learning. Or, maybe I am just getting old and starting to complain about the “kids these days”. Dave P.S. Let me take this chance to tell you how much I appreciate your Understanding DSP book. It is well written and useful.
Reply by ●December 7, 20082008-12-07
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 23:44:55 -0600, "drohm" <d.ohm@comcast.net> wrote:>>On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 10:38:20 -0500, Ben Bradley >><ben_nospam_bradley@frontiernet.net> wrote: >> >>>On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 05:40:38 -0700, Rick Lyons >>><R.Lyons@_BOGUS_ieee.org> wrote: >>> >>>>On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 14:38:57 -0500, Vladimir Vassilevsky >>>><antispam_bogus@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>>Can you suggest very basic EE tutorials, meccanos, project kits for >>>>>little children? Something that should allow building and trying the >>>>>simple circuits like amplifiers, oscillators, photosensors, logic >gates, >>>>>microprocessors etc. without soldering the parts; with an accompanying > >>>>>book explaining the operation. Also, it would be great to have an >entry >>>>>level book on electronics for little kids. Can you recommend one? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Vladimir Vassilevsky >>>>>DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant >>>>>http://www.abvolt.com >>>> >>>>Hi Vladimir, >>>> sorry but I can't offer you any advice. >>>> >>>>For all it's astounding progress over recent >>>>decades, the saddest story in the field of >>>>electronics is that you can't buy Heathkit kits >>>>any more. >>> >>> Yes, it's a shame, and it's all because of progress. Back when kit >>>companies started, it was a selling feature that you could save money >>>by buying kits and assembling them yourself versus buying a >>>factory-made unit at the store. Long story short, assembly automation >>>and other efficiencies of mass production were developed, and >>>factories were moved to third-world countries where labor costs are >>>much lower, so one of the biggest selling points for kits disappeared. >>> >>>>Those kits were the most wonderful >>>>way for a young kid to learn electronics. >>> >>> Perhaps the most valuable part of Heathkits for teaching >>>electronics was an "ancilliary" part of the manual that you never had >>>to read to make or operate the kit, called the "Circuit Description." >>>These were well-written and went through the schematic (also included >>>in the manual, of course) section by section, often telling why >>>specific components were there and describing their exact functions. I >>>built my first Heathkit at age 8 and didn't understand much of the >>>description, but sometime between there and the teenage years I read >>>through just about every Heathkit manual my father had. Also, the >>>first 100 or so pages of the ARRL Handbook was (and I think still is >>>in more current editions) a highly condensed electronics course. >>> >>> I was about to suggest robot kits such as Vex and Lego Mindstorms. >>>They're undoubtedly fun and to an extent educational, but they have >>>too many "black boxes" (microcontrollers and prebuilt I/O and motor >>>driver circuits) to really teach much about electronics. >>> >>> I remember Knight-Kits and perhaps some other kit makers too (I >>>recall Eico made much of their equiment available as kits, but my >>>father always bought them used or assembled new), but if any of those >>>manuals described the circuits, it was surely not nearly as in depth >>>as in the Heathkit manuals. >> >>Hi Ben, >> Good God!! I haven't seen the name "EICO" in over forty >>years. I recall having an EICO voltmeter as a teenager. >>It was about half the size of a toaster, AC powered, and I >>felt sooo "cool" having my own piece of electronic equipment. >>(Don't get the wrong idea. I wasn't a super geek. I >>played baseball and football with my pals, and caused my >>school teachers the same amount of heartache as the >>other guys.) >> >>I remember sittin' at the workbench in the basement measuring >>the resistance of old resistors that I cut out of old (damaged) >>televisions. That was kinda neat. Then I tried to measure >>the resistance of a large electrolytic capacitor. I was puzzled >>that the cap's resistance initially appeared to be a low value, >>but then quickly became a large resistance. The really weird >>part for me, at that time, was when I tried to measure the >>cap's resistance a second time, the resistance started out as >>a high resistance. >> >>Thanks to the "U.S. Navy Electronics Manual, Part I" >>(with the dark blue cover) I eventually learned what was happening >>when I tried to measure the resistance of an electrolytic >>capacitor. Sheece! Those were the good ol' days. >> >>> Unbuilt Heathkits are collectible and valuable nowadays (check them >>>out on eBay). I've wondered (for a very short moment, then I came to >>>my senses) if there's enough money in it make some "repro" Heathkit >>>kits. A lot of stuff would need to be worked out, such as getting >>>permission to reproduce the manuals (yes, there's still a vestige of >>>Heath left, as Heath Educational Systems, electronics and computer >>>courses aimed at adults). >> >>What a nice idea. Darn, I'd love to work on a project like that, >>but my initial guess is that such an effort is doomed from >>the beginning. I say that because I was recently forced to >>visit a family for three days at their vacation home during >>Thanksgiving. That family has two teenage boys. the boys >>rode their bikes for an hour or two in the morning, but >>spent their entire afternoons playing a video game. >>The game was fantastically violent, hectic, stressful, and >>entertaining to the boys. (The game was "Gear Wars", >>"War Gears", or something like that.) >> >>After dinner, they returned to the video game and played >>all evening, ... even beyond the time the parents went to >>bed. That went on for three straight days! >>I AM NOT JOKING, Ben. >> >>So how do you convince such boys to become interested in >>building a little four-transistor AM radio kit, or >>maybe an amplifier, or a volt-ohmmeter? I don't >>think it's possible in our current culture. >>(I suppose that situation partially explains why >>American-born student enrollment in engineering >>colleges has been in noticeable decline over recent years.) >> >>See Ya', >>[-Rick-] >> > >Rick, > >In the past I have not participated much at this site, but I read it on a >regular basis. Your post above inspired me to add my 2 cents. I am in my >early thirties and was fortunate enough to just miss the really explosive >video game, internet and cell phone boom that captured the generations just >younger than me while they were still in junior high and high school. When >I was a teenager my electronics lab in the basement was usually more >interesting than the video games of the time. I became interested in >Physics at an early age and went on to get a PhD in EE. Anyway, I have >noticed a troubling decline in the interest level of young people (many in >my age bracket also) when it comes to basic concepts of physics, math and >engineering. Even among young graduates that I have interviewed I notice >this trend.Somewhere along the way it became uncool to be a nerd or to be brainy or interested in stuff like that. I don't know how pervasive or how big of an effect that has had, but it seems to be real. I'm especially concerned by the reduction in budgets to music/art/science curricula as well. That's got to be hurting our future.> I also know that cheating has become more pervasive in our >universities and schools. I own a Playstation 3 (use it for the blu-ray >player) and I have rented a couple games in the past. I will admit that >they are more graphically interesting than the old Atari games. However, >they still cannot replace the feeling of satisfaction I get from learning a >new concept or understanding a new algorithm (they actually make me car >sick, but that is obviously not a problem for the kids that play them for >many hours). The real concern with all of the “toys�? available these >days is that it makes it harder for young people to really concentrate for >a useful period of time without being distracted. Since it often takes a >typical mortal several hours of good concentration to grasp many >fundamental concepts in math, physics, or engineering, there has to be a >trade-off. For young people who spend hours and hours surfing the internet, >texting and talking on cell phones, and playing video games, there will be >a proportionate void of knowledge about fundamental concepts. I do not see >a solution to this problem except for parents to be more involved with >teaching their kids the joys of learning. Or, maybe I am just getting old >and starting to complain about the “kids these days�?. > >DaveMy PhD sister was going on about this at Thanksgiving, and I mentioned that I thought it was really no different than people saying the same things about our generation and TV. It was a foregone conclusion 30-40 years ago that we'd all grow up to be the ruin of society because we watched TV instead of playing outside or sweating over homework. I'm actually kinda glad that kids' attentions are now on games to the detriment of the TV, since at least they're interacting with something (and often someone else) rather than just sponging in front of the glowing box like we did. The one constant seems to be that every generation disdains the next because of the cultural differences. The "flappers" of the roaring twenties were the scourge of the day because they spent their time driving cars from club to club. The horrors. ;) That's not to say there isn't a problem, I'm not just sure it's as bad as we think. Eric Jacobsen Minister of Algorithms Abineau Communications http://www.ericjacobsen.org Blog: http://www.dsprelated.com/blogs-1/hf/Eric_Jacobsen.php
Reply by ●December 8, 20082008-12-08
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 16:13:02 -0800, Rick Lyons <R.Lyons@_BOGUS_ieee.org> wrote:> On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 10:38:20 -0500, Ben Bradley ><ben_nospam_bradley@frontiernet.net> wrote: >>On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 05:40:38 -0700, Rick Lyons >><R.Lyons@_BOGUS_ieee.org> wrote:On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 16:13:02 -0800, Rick Lyons <R.Lyons@_BOGUS_ieee.org> wrote:> On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 10:38:20 -0500, Ben Bradley ><ben_nospam_bradley@frontiernet.net> wrote: >>On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 05:40:38 -0700, Rick Lyons >><R.Lyons@_BOGUS_ieee.org> wrote: >> >>>On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 14:38:57 -0500, Vladimir Vassilevsky >>><antispam_bogus@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>Can you suggest very basic EE tutorials, meccanos, project kits for >>>>little children? Something that should allow building and trying the >>>>simple circuits like amplifiers, oscillators, photosensors, logic gates, >>>>microprocessors etc. without soldering the parts; with an accompanying >>>>book explaining the operation. Also, it would be great to have an entry >>>>level book on electronics for little kids. Can you recommend one?--snip-- [Description of boys preoccupied with playing video games snipped]> So how do you convince such boys to become interested in > building a little four-transistor AM radio kit, or > maybe an amplifier, or a volt-ohmmeter? I don't > think it's possible in our current culture.In my case, I'm pretty sure that having a father who was an EE helped. It wasn't that he spent hours teaching the five of us all about how resistors and tubes worked, I think, so much as seeing him (someone) who could Make Things, and being surrounded with all the "neat stuff" like dry cells, street light photo-controls, the odd kilowatt-hour meter, and a seemingly infinite variety of small parts that, even if I didn't fully understand what they did (yet), were fascinating in their own right. I learned to solder (and more important, how to recognize a bad solder joint <grin!>) assisting him with Heathkits. I helped him in his move into semiconductors building a Mohican shortwave radio with !!Six!! (Count 'Em) !!Six !! transistors, and my little sister (now an EE/ME in her own right) got to help him build and align what, at the time, was The Grand Prize of Kits: a Heath color TV set. Getting back to your question, I don't think that my friends, my school, or my neighborhood did much to specifically encourage or discourage my learning about electronics. I was fortunate in finding a local Radio-TV repair shop whose owner (WA4GMV?) didn't mind my hanging around after school, and there were books of electronic experiments, and Popular Electronics, Radio-TV Experimenter, and, of course, the ARRL Handbook. I don't think I built more than 1% of what I read about, but I did enjoy following along the circuits and trying to understand what I was seeing. I'd see an interesting goal ("Build An Electronic Lock"), and I'd be curious about How They Did It. I can't speak for other schools, but there was no particular advantage in being "brainy", at least as far as girls were concerned; sort of a "don't ask, don't tell" attitude. <grin!> So what's missing today? (He asks, but not rhetorically.) There are at least as many books available, and magazines like Circuit Cellar, Nuts&Volts, SERVO, Robot, EPI, and Elektor Electronics. Oh, and the quarterly MAKE magazine. Kits? Ramsey puts out a large printed catalog of mostly kit stuff that keeps getting larger with each issue, and they're far from being the only source of kits. You even can get kits with SMT parts; I'm using a few of these to practice SMT soldering. I take all this as sign that _someone_ is building _something_ these days. Video games do present competition, though. They encourage (require) the same kind of intense concentration that you need to study circuit diagrams. Most of them compete with social interaction and, like books, should be banned from the dinner table. <grin!> But kids (and adults) have always been attracted by flashing lights; video games are just more complex and interactive. And one can simply sit and watch Das BlikenLights, in whatever form they take, or one can try to figure out how they work and invent new ones. And I think that's the attitude you feel we aren't properly developing in the upcoming generation. One possibility is a lack of Bad Examples. I don't know whether today's kids aren't being properly exposed to Evil Mad Scientists like my generation were, but I have to think that they were an incentive to pursuing a career in the sciences. Even if the Handsome Hero defeated him in the end, your typical Mad Scientist was able to destroy _most_ of his enemies in very satisfying ways, and as I recall he also got to spend more time with the Beautiful Maiden that the HH ever got. <grin!>> (I suppose that situation partially explains why > American-born student enrollment in engineering > colleges has been in noticeable decline over recent years.)Low enrollment could be a result of an unencouraging job market, the high cost of an engineering school, peer counterpressure, or a preoccupation with grades (or with Getting Some Kind Of Degree) to the point where it becomes avoidance of classes that are perceived as "difficult". I suspect there are other possible causes; what I don't know is how one would go about distinguishing them clearly or figuring out which one(s) were major contributors to the situation. Wish I did. Frank McKenney -- Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is to not stop questioning. -- Albert Einstein -- Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887 Munged E-mail: frank uscore mckenney ayut mined spring dawt cahm (y'all)
