This post contains unpleasant material and I apologize in advance to the
members of the group. Unfortunately, it has become necessary- steve.
Rune,
Let me start by answering some of the disparaging remarks you have
recently made about me:
Rune wrote: "... DSP was a peripheral subject to something you did for
your degree..."
No, I studied DSP for 3 years under Tom Stockham, the same professor that
taught Oppenheim and Schafer, and I graduated at the top of my class. My
DSP book has been at the top of Amazon.com for ten years, a distinction I
proudly share with Rick Lyons’ fine book. Analog Devices bought 20,000
copies and sent one to every person on their marketing list. If you want
to see some of my work, Google "Digital Signal Processing." I own the
second and third spots, out of 2.9 Million. The top spot goes to
Wikipedia.
Rune wrote: "Let me guess - if you are at all affiliated with DSP, you are
in a managerial, sales type position."
No, I’m the president of a $14M company I founded ten years ago,
developing new types of imaging systems based on DSP. Half my time is
spent in product development and half in business.
Rune wrote: "I wouldn't be the least surprised if you sell these insane
projects and then complain about "it's impossible to get skilled staff"
when (not if) they crash and burn."
No, I’ve invented and successfully commercialized over a dozen new
technologies in the last 20 years. I’ve supervised 80 engineers and have
half a dozen working for me at present.
Rune wrote: "You would never present (your ideas) as you do if you had the
slightest experience with 'physical' data analysis..."
How can you profess to be an expert in DSP, but have no knowledge of those
that are the most active in the field? Google “Digital Signal
Processing” or look at my book reviews on Amazon.com.
Rune wrote: "You would never present (your ideas)...if you had ...anything
of even the slightest value ... at stake."
How is this for putting value at stake: I funded the first ventures in my
company by matching external investments with a $500,000 mortgage on my
home.
Rune wrote: “Whimp"
I was a police officer for 5 years before graduate school and have been
called a lot of nasty things. "Whimp" doesn't even make the top 100.
Now, if you think I am trying to impress you, you’re wrong; I’m trying
to educate you. I want you to understand exactly who I am, what my
motivation is, and what my capabilities are. This isn’t personal; its
business. I make money by promoting the free distribution of DSP material
and advice on the internet, as do several other people. Six months ago I
was in negotiations with another major provider of these services for a
planned merger. The deal broke down because we could not agree on how to
handle the problems in comp.DSP. How can you solicit advertising from
companies like Analog Devices and Texas Instruments with a website that
contains abusive posts? My solution was to initiate a new discussion group
and push comp.DSP out of the market space. The only reason we didn’t
execute this business plan was disagreement over intellectual property.
That’s how close the few bad actors on comp.DSP have come to shutting
down the group as it exists today. If I don’t do it, some other
businessman eventually will.
Rune, you aren’t the worst offender in the history of comp.DSP; not by a
long shot. But you are the worst one at present, and the one I have chosen
to make an example of. So I’m putting you on notice. Your rude posts are
interfering with my business and it’s going to stop. Stage 1 is my
tracking your posts and calling you on ones that are unacceptable. If that
doesn’t work, I’ll go to stage 2, where I rally support from the other
posters to isolate you from participation. If you still want to fight me,
I’ll go to stage 3. That’s when I call up my internet marketing
manager and give him whatever budget he needs to solve the problem.
Now I’ll give you one last opportunity to say all of the nasty things
you want. Then it stops.
Steve Smith
P.S. For those involved in comp.DSP that welcome my actions, I appreciate
your support. To the few that don’t like what I’m doing, consider it a
hostile takeover. Sorry, this happens in business. No, I’m not kidding.
Open letter to Rune Allnor
Started by ●November 25, 2008
Reply by ●November 25, 20082008-11-25
On 26 Nov, 02:32, "SteveSmith" <Steve.Smi...@SpectrumSDI.com> wrote:> This post contains unpleasant material and I apologize in advance to the > members of the group. � Unfortunately, it has become necessary- steve. > > Rune, > > Let me start by answering some of the disparaging remarks you have > recently made about me: � > > Rune wrote: "... DSP was a peripheral subject to something you did for > > your degree..." > > No, I studied DSP for 3 years under Tom Stockham, the same professor that > taught Oppenheim and Schafer, and I graduated at the top of my class. � My > DSP book has been at the top of Amazon.com for ten years, a distinction I > proudly share with Rick Lyons� fine book. �Analog Devices bought 20,000 > copies and sent one to every person on their marketing list. �If you want > to see some of my work, Google "Digital Signal Processing." � I own the > second and third spots, out of 2.9 Million. �The top spot goes to > Wikipedia. �Looks good on the resume, for sure. But what did you actually *do* when you worked for these people? Program DSP chips? Derive mathematical formulas? Design working system? Analyze data?> Rune wrote: "Let me guess - if you are at all affiliated with DSP, you are > > in a managerial, sales type position." > > No, I�m the president of a $14M company I founded ten years ago,Managerial for sure.> developing new types of imaging systems based on DSP. �Half my time is > spent in product development and half in business.Right. When did you last turn down a project proposal? When did you last 'stretch' the terminology to get a contract? You don't need to answer - no one admits to those things, but I have never seen a project where those sorts of things didn't happen.> Rune wrote: "I wouldn't be the least surprised if you sell these insane > > projects and then complain about "it's impossible to get skilled staff" > when (not if) they crash and burn." > > No, I�ve invented and successfully commercialized over a dozen new > technologies in the last 20 years. �I�ve supervised 80 engineers and have > half a dozen working for me at present. �How many of these are troublemakers? How many times do your company's projects get into trouble? [If you say 'never' I don't believe you ] Either on time or to achieve your goals? How many of your employees foresaw those problems? [If you say 'none' you confirm my prejudice against you]> Rune wrote: "You would never present (your ideas) as you do if you had the > > slightest experience with 'physical' data analysis..." > > How can you profess to be an expert in DSP, but have no knowledge of those > that are the most active in the field? � Google �Digital Signal > Processing� or look at my book reviews on Amazon.com.There is a differece between writing books and doing real-life work. I used to work in the oil business, developing analysis methods for the petroleum exploration business. The kind of thing that earns $200 Bn/year in national revenues. The particular project I worked on attracted some interst from the oil drillers. This was just after the Piper Alpha and West Vanguard incidents. The rig West Vanguard had hit a pocket of shallow gas, and narrowly escaped a fire. Image here: http://www.pinnacleoiltools.ca/ What you see beside the rig is not a jacuzzi. It's methane. People were scared senseless because of what happened to Piper Alpha a few years earlier, (image here at http://www.kanadaria.de/wasserreporter/index.php?/archives/77-Die-Explosion-der-Piper-Alpha.html ) where 166 people died. Every single person who survived had jumped ship from 60 meters. That's the equivalent of jumping from a 15-story building. People asked me "can your method detect the gas?" I could have said "yes" and got plenty of $$$ to pursue my ideas, but since I knew my method can not detect the gas - and thus that the guys working at sea would risk a fire if they used any device I made - I declined any further work. Then I worked for the Navy, to find ways to detect submarines. To give you an idea what was at stake, check out the sinking of the "General Belgrano" during the Falklands war. The "Belgrano" was sunk by a British submarine. The immediate effect was that hundreds of sailors died. The strategic effect was that Argentina all of a sudden had tens of thousands of soldiers at the Falkland islands, with no means to reinforce or supply them, without risking substantial parts of their navy. So they could play for a draw (it was by no means certain that the brits would win, at that time) or risk loosing more of their navy to the subs. If you read the history you will find that the Argentinian navy never came back out of natinal waters for the duration of the war. That one submarine attack lost the war for the Argentinians. If I made a mistake in the methods I worked with, I would jeopardize the National Security in similar ways. In fact, I resigned over a project where I was asked to do exactly that - compromise the National Security if it was ever implemented. They wanted a computer which automatically detected certain features from the data they measured, much the same way whoever wanted to detect some particular source of sound in a recording. What they wanted could not be done. I would technically (if not legally) be guilty of treason if I accepted the job. I did, however, find a different way to substantially improve certain aspects the data analysis. But not what they asked for. My next job was a project where the objective was to monitor chemical munitions dumped near fishing fields at sea. Make one mistake there and some fisherman risks getting 50 kg of mustard gas in his trawl.> Rune wrote: "You would never present (your ideas)...if you had ...anything > > of even the slightest value ... at stake." > > How is this for putting value at stake: I funded the first ventures in my > company by matching external investments with a $500,000 mortgage on my > home. �Ok.> Rune wrote: �Whimp" > > I was a police officer for 5 years before graduate school and have been > called a lot of nasty things. �"Whimp" doesn't even make the top 100. �That was not my point.> Now, if you think I am trying to impress you, you�re wrong; I�m trying > to educate you. �I want you to understand exactly who I am, what my > motivation is, and what my capabilities are. �Writing a book?> This isn�t personal; its business.Agreed.>�I make money by promoting the free distribution of DSP material > and advice on the internet, as do several other people. �Six months ago I > was in negotiations with another major provider of these services for a > planned merger. �The deal broke down because we could not agree on how to > handle the problems in comp.DSP. � How can you solicit advertising from > companies like Analog Devices and Texas Instruments with a website that > contains abusive posts? �My solution was to initiate a new discussion group > and push comp.DSP out of the market space. � The only reason we didn�t > execute this business plan was disagreement over intellectual property. > That�s how close the few bad actors on comp.DSP have come to shutting > down the group as it exists today. �If I don�t do it, some other > businessman eventually will. � �So you have the power to prevent students and researchers from discussing freely in a usenet forum?> Rune, you aren�t the worst offender in the history of comp.DSP; not by a > long shot. �But you are the worst one at present, and the one I have chosen > to make an example of. So I�m putting you on notice. �Your rude posts are > interfering with my business and it�s going to stop. Stage 1 is my > tracking your posts and calling you on ones that are unacceptable. If that > doesn�t work, I�ll go to stage 2, where I rally support from the other > posters to isolate you from participation. �If you still want to fight me, > I�ll go to stage 3. �That�s when I call up my internet marketing > manager and give him whatever budget he needs to solve the problem. � �Well, I've been posting here for a few years now. With the exception of the recent thread I don't go personal with people. I am aware that I might have crossed the line with you, and for that I apologize. Frankly, I was disappointed that somebody with such apparent stature could make such a mistake. I might not be the most polite person around, but when people are wrong I tell them. When students need to read up on the basics, I tell them. I expect the same courtesy in return. I am grateful for the efforts you have taken to write this post, and for that you have my respect. I have been in too many bad projects to let apparently innocent remarks go unchecked. As I indicated above, I come from a world where tens, if not hundreds, of lifes are at stake. I have been involved in projects where I would have risked indightment for manslaughter and worse, if I had followed the orders from my bosses. I got into those situations because said bosses did not pay attention to detail, much as our disagreement in the thread in question. If I have a project with comp.dsp, it's to make people aware what is at stake in the real world. I don't want my worst enemy to get even remotely close to the kind of stuff I've been doing for too long. My project is to make people stop and think. Some times it doesn't take more than an argument. Other times it takes a bit of provocation. I don't care what people think about me personally. I want people to think twice about what they do. If they think things over and still proceed with what they first had in mind - OK, then they do it based on an informed decision and not on a whim.> Now I�ll give you one last opportunity to say all of the nasty things > you want. � Then it stops. � > > Steve Smith > > P.S. �For those involved in comp.DSP that welcome my actions, I appreciate > your support. �To the few that don�t like what I�m doing, consider it a > hostile takeover. �Sorry, this happens in business. �No, I�m not kidding.I'm sure you're not. Rune
Reply by ●November 25, 20082008-11-25
On Nov 25, 8:32�pm, "SteveSmith" <Steve.Smi...@SpectrumSDI.com> wrote:> �My solution was to initiate a new discussion group > and push comp.DSP out of the market space.Steve, comp.dsp is an unmoderated USENET group which Google Groups rates as having "high" activity. nobody really owns it (and has authority to shut it down). the newsservers that carry the comp.* hierarchy will continue to carry it and it will likely continue to be high user activity. i dunno how successful you'll be at pushing it out.> � The only reason we didn�t > execute this business plan was disagreement over intellectual property. > That�s how close the few bad actors on comp.DSP have come to shutting > down the group as it exists today. �If I don�t do it, some other > businessman eventually will. � �is there something (like the "Tri-lateral Commission") that has a secret ability to control this USENET medium? unless some businessman can get the admins of dozens of newsservers (normally in academic settings) to kill comp.dsp, i dunno how a few bad actors on any newsgroup will cause it to shut down. if the S/N ratio gets to low, it will die a death of disuse and irrelevance. but you're not going to shut it down. you can't.> Rune, you aren�t the worst offender in the history of comp.DSP; not by a > long shot.oh geez, i don't even think he comes close. besides Beanie and eBob, i can't think of the others (zxform? who can you remember, can you Jerry? oh, there's that Gary Sokolich that came here from the audio/ acoustics stalking Bob Cain - what happened to Bob?). not a big deal. it's the cheap knock-off watch spammers from China that are currently the enemies of the newsgroup now.> �But you are the worst one at present, and the one I have chosen > to make an example of.i think it's premature. i locked horns a couple of times with Rune, too, but i generally tried to keep it on a technical basis. i think he's okay, but i hadn't read or even looked at every post of his, so maybe there's something i missed, but i sorta doubt it. Lord knows (as do the other long timers here) that i can get *really* nasty about some things (usually had to do with that "T" factor missing in most textbooks treatment of the sampling theorem or the dimension of the dependent variable of the dirac delta function - this is now about a decade old), so i hope that i don't transgress your sensibilities, Steve (i have respect for you and for Rune), but if i do, i don't tread here unarmed. peace... love... drugs, man. r b-j
Reply by ●November 25, 20082008-11-25
> > > �My solution was to initiate a new discussion group > > and push comp.DSP out of the market space. > > Steve, comp.dsp is an unmoderated USENET group which Google Groups > rates as having "high" activity. �nobody really owns it (and has > authority to shut it down). �the newsservers that carry the comp.* > hierarchy will continue to carry it and it will likely continue to be > high user activity. >that was my thought exactly, what the heck is this talk about a market space? comp.dsp is a USENET group. Mark
Reply by ●November 25, 20082008-11-25
On Nov 25, 9:51�pm, robert bristow-johnson <r...@audioimagination.com> wrote:> On Nov 25, 8:32�pm, "SteveSmith" <Steve.Smi...@SpectrumSDI.com> wrote: > > > �My solution was to initiate a new discussion group > > and push comp.DSP out of the market space. > > Steve, comp.dsp is an unmoderated USENET group which Google Groups > rates as having "high" activity. �nobody really owns it (and has > authority to shut it down). �the newsservers that carry the comp.* > hierarchy will continue to carry it and it will likely continue to be > high user activity. > > i dunno how successful you'll be at pushing it out. > > > � The only reason we didn�t > > execute this business plan was disagreement over intellectual property. > > That�s how close the few bad actors on comp.DSP have come to shutting > > down the group as it exists today. �If I don�t do it, some other > > businessman eventually will. � � > > is there something (like the "Tri-lateral Commission") that has a > secret ability to control this USENET medium? �unless some businessman > can get the admins of dozens of newsservers (normally in academic > settings) to kill comp.dsp, i dunno how a few bad actors on any > newsgroup will cause it to shut down. �if the S/N ratio gets to low, > it will die a death of disuse and irrelevance. �but you're not going > to shut it down. �you can't. > > > Rune, you aren�t the worst offender in the history of comp.DSP; not by a > > long shot. > > oh geez, i don't even think he comes close. �besides Beanie and eBob, > i can't think of the others (zxform? �who can you remember, can you > Jerry? �oh, there's that Gary Sokolich that came here from the audio/ > acoustics stalking Bob Cain - what happened to Bob?). �not a big > deal. �it's the cheap knock-off watch spammers from China that are > currently the enemies of the newsgroup now. > > > �But you are the worst one at present, and the one I have chosen > > to make an example of. > > i think it's premature. �i locked horns a couple of times with Rune, > too, but i generally tried to keep it on a technical basis. �i think > he's okay, but i hadn't read or even looked at every post of his, so > maybe there's something i missed, but i sorta doubt it. > > Lord knows (as do the other long timers here) that i can get *really* > nasty about some things (usually had to do with that "T" factor > missing in most textbooks treatment of the sampling theorem or the > dimension of the dependent variable of the dirac delta function - this > is now about a decade old), so i hope that i don't transgress your > sensibilities, Steve (i have respect for you and for Rune), but if i > do, i don't tread here unarmed. > > peace... love... drugs, man. > > r b-jrbj, and Steve I certainly respect the works of Steve Smith. His work in educating people in DSP has been very beneficial to me personally and I sincerely appreciate his efforts. However, to come onto an unmoderated newsgroup and somehow blame this unmoderated newsgroup for a deal gone bad and to make threats to shut it down.... Unacceptable. Take your thuggary somewhere else.
Reply by ●November 26, 20082008-11-26
It pains me greatly to see two folks who have enjoyed my respect here on comp.dsp get into an exchange of insults and threats. And, it offends me. That said, I have all the confidence in the world that you can get past it. And, I surely hope you do. Heaven knows I've been harsh or abrupt or .... whatever .... at times here. Thanks to those who were tolerant. Let's move on. Fred
Reply by ●November 26, 20082008-11-26
SteveSmith wrote:> This post contains unpleasant material [..]You sure are right about this. I haven't followed any discussion recently which could explain this posting so I cannot say anything about it, but ...> [..] I make money by promoting the free distribution of DSP material > and advice on the internet, as do several other people. Six months ago I > was in negotiations with another major provider of these services for a > planned merger. The deal broke down because we could not agree on how to > handle the problems in comp.DSP. How can you solicit advertising from > companies like Analog Devices and Texas Instruments with a website that > contains abusive posts?... you probably do not fully understand what an unmoderated usenet newsgroup is, neither do your business partners.> My solution was to initiate a new discussion > group and push comp.DSP out of the market space.There is no such market space for a usenet group. In fact the charta of most usenet groups explicitely forbid any commercial advertising, and posters who do not apply to this rule may be banned.> [..] The only reason we didn't > execute this business plan was disagreement over intellectual property. > That's how close the few bad actors on comp.DSP have come to shutting > down the group as it exists today.No one is going to shut down comp.DSP, nor is one single person or organisation able to do so. The users of comp.DSP worldwide are the ones who keep it running, or who let it fall into ruins, whatever. If you have problems with a poster in a usenet group you must handle them personally. Starting a flame war is not a good way, and to threaten someone in public is even worse - ask your lawyer about possible consequences. bye Andreas -- Andreas H�nnebeck | email: acmh@gmx.de ----- privat ---- | www : http://www.huennebeck-online.de Fax/Anrufbeantworter: 0721/151-284301 GPG-Key: http://www.huennebeck-online.de/public_keys/andreas.asc PGP-Key: http://www.huennebeck-online.de/public_keys/pgp_andreas.asc
Reply by ●November 26, 20082008-11-26
SteveSmith wrote:>... How can you solicit advertising from > companies like Analog Devices and Texas Instruments with a website that > contains abusive posts?Tell them to ignore usenet groups? They should worry! What about all those hidden groups (e.g. masquerading as rec.alt.pets.cats) slagging off all dsp gurus such as yourself for claiming we really did go to the moon, when all the evidence shows it was a con! To say nothing of the evidence on alt.alt.xxx.binaries that you are actually an alien from the planet Zarg. If it's in the National Enquirer, it must be true. Much bigger problem than comp.dsp. If you build it, they will come. Richard Dobson
Reply by ●November 26, 20082008-11-26
Hi Steve, On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 19:32:46 -0600, SteveSmith wrote:> Let me start by answering some of the disparaging remarks you have > recently made about me:Sorry, I haven't been following any threads that you're obliquely referring to, but in my experience Rune has been a knowledgeable and helpful contributor to comp.dsp of long standing. If he has seemed to disparage you, perhaps you deserved it.> No, I studied DSP for 3 years under Tom Stockham, the same professor > that taught Oppenheim and Schafer, and I graduated at the top of my > class. My DSP book has been at the top of Amazon.com for ten years, a > distinction I proudly share with Rick Lyons’ fine book. Analog Devices > bought 20,000 copies and sent one to every person on their marketing > list. If you want to see some of my work, Google "Digital Signal > Processing." I own the second and third spots, out of 2.9 Million. > The top spot goes to Wikipedia.That may be true, but you are clearly new to usenet. You might be interested to know that usenet pre-dates wikipedia, the world-wide web *and* the internet. It's not going anywhere (although the SNR has been on a downwards trend for a while...)> Now, if you think I am trying to impress you, you’re wrong; I’m trying > to educate you. I want you to understand exactly who I am, what my > motivation is, and what my capabilities are. This isn’t personal; its > business.You may well have business interests in DSP -- most here do -- but business has no business on usenet (mostly). This is the international water-cooler conversation. Contribute, lurk or don't. Noone else will care: only active contribution will encourage others to think well of you, if that's what you want. Teaching is one of the best ways to learn, so your contributions will help everyone.> Six > months ago I was in negotiations with another major provider of these > services for a planned merger. The deal broke down because we could not > agree on how to handle the problems in comp.DSP.You should do your research, then. There's nothing to be done about comp.dsp. Contribute, listen, or ignore: those are your options.> How can you solicit > advertising from companies like Analog Devices and Texas Instruments > with a website that contains abusive posts?There is no advertising in comp.dsp.> My solution was to initiate > a new discussion group and push comp.DSP out of the market space.People start new DSP discussion groups on yahoo or google or wherever all the time. The comp.dsp archives (also hosted on google, who acquired them from dejanews) are littered with the announcements. Maybe some of these thrive. I couldn't judge that, but it's never seemed to me that they've had any significant impact on the popularity (or lack thereof) of comp.dsp, and I've been reading it for twenty years or so...> P.S. For those involved in comp.DSP that welcome my actionsI, for one, expect to be amused by the conniptions of our business overlords. Keep up the good work :-)> consider it a hostile takeover. Sorry, this happens in business. No, > I’m not kidding.Could'a fooled me. Cheers, -- Andrew
Reply by ●November 26, 20082008-11-26
Andrew Reilly <andrew-newspost@areilly.bpc-users.org> writes:> [...] > People start new DSP discussion groups on yahoo or google or wherever all > the time. The comp.dsp archives (also hosted on google, who acquired > them from dejanews) are littered with the announcements. Maybe some of > these thrive. I couldn't judge that, but it's never seemed to me that > they've had any significant impact on the popularity (or lack thereof) of > comp.dsp, and I've been reading it for twenty years or so...Wow. You predate me by about 5 years - I started reading comp.dsp in 1993 when I first got access to the newsgroups via my account at USF. Cool. -- % Randy Yates % "Rollin' and riding and slippin' and %% Fuquay-Varina, NC % sliding, it's magic." %%% 919-577-9882 % %%%% <yates@ieee.org> % 'Living' Thing', *A New World Record*, ELO http://www.digitalsignallabs.com
