I know this is a subjective question but I've always found DSP interesting and have considered doing a career in it (it certainly beats business apps). Is the field growing, shrinking, or not changing? Is there much demand and are there many jobs available? What type of work do DSP engineers do? Do people do new things in DSP or is it kind of the same story where you have a signal, apply some well known filters or transformations, and then use the information as appropriate? How does the pay compare to other types of engineering? (such as say software engineering, or elec) One thing I personally like about dsp is that it seems like software engineers can actually solve the engineering problems rather than the client. It seems like for the most part as a software developer, someone else has already done the interesting math and they just want me to create a program that makes it's calculation a bit easier. With dsp, it seems like I might be able to do the program AND the math without having clients providing their own answers. Thanks so much for the info.
Is DSP a good field to have a career in?
Started by ●March 25, 2009
Reply by ●March 25, 20092009-03-25
On 25 Mar, 22:51, "noodle22" <jw970...@yahoo.com> wrote:> I know this is a subjective question but I've always found DSP interesting > and have considered doing a career in it (it certainly beats business > apps).First of all, make up your mind about what you want: An 'interesting' job or making a living.> Is the field growing, shrinking, or not changing? �Is there much demand > and are there many jobs available? > > What type of work do DSP engineers do?I'd say DSP is a transitionary discpline, like radio telegraphists used to be at sea in the first half of the 20th century: The operators were there and necessary when the field was new and worked with morse code. Once voiced radio was possible, the specialized skills of the radio operator were no longer necessary, as anyone could use a radio set. DSP is headed in the same direction.> Do people do new things in DSP or is it kind of the same story where you > have a signal, apply some well known filters or transformations, and then > use the information as appropriate?The side of DSP I know is data processing. In these applications there are lots of operators with little, if any, traning who work standardized procedures. Very little room for 'interesting' DSP. What little 'interesting' DSP occurs, is about troubleshooting, where somebody tries something that doesn't work, and I more often than not find out what was wrong with the idea. It is very, very seldom one actually works out something new or correct a problem. Since people make basic mistakes, solutions are correspondingly basic, so there is no $$$ in it even if you manage to fix something.> How does the pay compare to other types of engineering? �(such as say > software engineering, or elec)I have no idea. However, in these disciplines one produce actual results, so personal skills or project progress are easier to monitor and track. With huge implications for accountability, which ought to have *some* influence on carreer possibilities and maybe even pay. The other main benefit with these disciplines is that layfolk know they are layfolk. For some reason everybody and their brother have an opinion about what ought to be possible in DSP projects. Which is a main reason DSP apparently runs around in circles these days.> One thing I personally like about dsp is that it seems like software > engineers can actually solve the engineering problems rather than the > client.Maybe. But the client has more often than not strong opinions about what ought to be done, which is a major factor in tearing DSP apart as a profession.>�It seems like for the most part as a software developer, someone > else has already done the interesting math and they just want me to create > a program that makes it's calculation a bit easier.That can have a huge impact on the client's business - and thus on the software engineers paycheck.>�With dsp, it seems > like I might be able to do the program AND the math without having clients > providing their own answers.You're plain wrong on this. The clients for DSP out there have *either* seen every episode of Star Trek and every war movie out there, *or* is a 'technics analphabet'. In either case, the DSP engineer is basically screwed, since he has no chance in hell to come even remotely close to to what the client takes for granted, let alone expect. Rune
Reply by ●March 25, 20092009-03-25
On Mar 26, 5:51�am, "noodle22" <jw970...@yahoo.com> wrote:> I know this is a subjective question but I've always found DSP interesting > and have considered doing a career in it (it certainly beats business > apps). > > Is the field growing, shrinking, or not changing? �Is there much demand > and are there many jobs available? > > What type of work do DSP engineers do? > > Do people do new things in DSP or is it kind of the same story where you > have a signal, apply some well known filters or transformations, and then > use the information as appropriate? > > How does the pay compare to other types of engineering? �(such as say > software engineering, or elec) > > One thing I personally like about dsp is that it seems like software > engineers can actually solve the engineering problems rather than the > client. �It seems like for the most part as a software developer, someone > else has already done the interesting math and they just want me to create > a program that makes it's calculation a bit easier. �With dsp, it seems > like I might be able to do the program AND the math without having clients > providing their own answers. > > Thanks so much for the info.I've been doing DSP work for over 30 years, and I don't think I've ever had a career in DSP. At one time I had a career in sensor systems for weapons. At another I had a career in telecoms. I currently develop various measurement and monitoring things, with a big emphasis on power conservation. I've spent maybe 75% of this time doing DSP of one sort or another, but it has never been my career. If you look around the regular posters here you'll find audio experts, comms experts, sensing experts, and so on. I think for all of them DSP is just a tool of the trade. Its how they do what they do. Its not the centre of what they do. Steve
Reply by ●March 26, 20092009-03-26
On Mar 25, 5:51�pm, "noodle22" <jw970...@yahoo.com> wrote:> I know this is a subjective question but I've always found DSP interesting > and have considered doing a career in it (it certainly beats business > apps). > > Is the field growing, shrinking, or not changing? �Is there much demand > and are there many jobs available? > > What type of work do DSP engineers do? > > Do people do new things in DSP or is it kind of the same story where you > have a signal, apply some well known filters or transformations, and then > use the information as appropriate? > > How does the pay compare to other types of engineering? �(such as say > software engineering, or elec) > > One thing I personally like about dsp is that it seems like software > engineers can actually solve the engineering problems rather than the > client. �It seems like for the most part as a software developer, someone > else has already done the interesting math and they just want me to create > a program that makes it's calculation a bit easier. �With dsp, it seems > like I might be able to do the program AND the math without having clients > providing their own answers. > > Thanks so much for the info.I second Steve's notion about DSP not really being a career for many of us here. I use it as one of many tools to get things done. Certainly there will be some (academics, instructors, book writers, ic designers, etc) who will work purely in DSP, thus have a career in DSP. I don't think there are many purely DSP positions for an engineer in a company though. Clay
Reply by ●March 26, 20092009-03-26
What you say about DSP as a tool rather than a career makes sense. If you are using it 75% of the time, it is one of your main tools. So, to rephrase, what are good careers that involve some DSP? Do those careers remain interesting or do they become sort of cookie cutter problems where you don't really need to think all that much to solve them? I have a degree in engineering physics and I think my background gives me a fair bit of leeway as to which direction I take...of course, it is definitely not as good as actual work experience but I'm sure there is still a lot I can do. I have been working as a software developer for a number of years.
Reply by ●March 26, 20092009-03-26
noodle22 wrote:> What you say about DSP as a tool rather than a career makes sense.No. You missed the point entirely. It doesn't matter what you do if you are good at what you doing. In *any* kind of trade, there are masters and there are lamers. It is better to be the master of ditch digging then a lamer of rocket science.> If you > are using it 75% of the time, it is one of your main tools. So, to > rephrase, what are good careers that involve some DSP? Do those careers > remain interesting or do they become sort of cookie cutter problems where > you don't really need to think all that much to solve them?> I have a degree in engineering physics and I think my background gives me > a fair bit of leeway as to which direction I take...of course, it is > definitely not as good as actual work experience but I'm sure there is > still a lot I can do. I have been working as a software developer for a > number of years.You are very good at talking nonsense. Why not a career of a comedian or a politician? Vladimir Vassilevsky DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant http://www.abvolt.com
Reply by ●March 26, 20092009-03-26
> > >noodle22 wrote: > >> What you say about DSP as a tool rather than a career makes sense. > >No. You missed the point entirely. >It doesn't matter what you do if you are good at what you doing. >In *any* kind of trade, there are masters and there are lamers. It is >better to be the master of ditch digging then a lamer of rocket science. > >> If you >> are using it 75% of the time, it is one of your main tools. So, to >> rephrase, what are good careers that involve some DSP? Do thosecareers>> remain interesting or do they become sort of cookie cutter problemswhere>> you don't really need to think all that much to solve them? > >> I have a degree in engineering physics and I think my background givesme>> a fair bit of leeway as to which direction I take...of course, it is >> definitely not as good as actual work experience but I'm sure there is >> still a lot I can do. I have been working as a software developer fora>> number of years. > >You are very good at talking nonsense. Why not a career of a comedian or>a politician? > > >Vladimir Vassilevsky >DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant >http://www.abvolt.com >Vladimir, I think you must have misunderstood. I am not looking for just any kind of career, and the masters/lamers comment is quite obvious and irrelevant. What I am saying is that I enjoy doing the little bit of dsp that I have done in school and for fun and am interested in learning about careers where individuals do dsp. I'm not sure how I'm talking nonsense and I don't really care one way or the other. I am just looking for some information on dsp related careers and this seems to be the best spot to find dsp experts and amateurs alike. If I have not been stating my intent clearly enough, I hope this helps. Steve and Clay really helped me get a better idea of the questions I should be asking since I was definitely starting off with some wrong ideas. I really think you might be among the best suited to offer some actual career advice if you are interested since your signature states that you are a DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant.
Reply by ●March 26, 20092009-03-26
>> >> >>noodle22 wrote: >> >>> What you say about DSP as a tool rather than a career makes sense. >> >>No. You missed the point entirely. >>It doesn't matter what you do if you are good at what you doing. >>In *any* kind of trade, there are masters and there are lamers. It is >>better to be the master of ditch digging then a lamer of rocketscience.>> >>> If you >>> are using it 75% of the time, it is one of your main tools. So, to >>> rephrase, what are good careers that involve some DSP? Do those >careers >>> remain interesting or do they become sort of cookie cutter problems >where >>> you don't really need to think all that much to solve them? >> >>> I have a degree in engineering physics and I think my backgroundgives>me >>> a fair bit of leeway as to which direction I take...of course, it is >>> definitely not as good as actual work experience but I'm sure thereis>>> still a lot I can do. I have been working as a software developerfor>a >>> number of years. >> >>You are very good at talking nonsense. Why not a career of a comedianor> >>a politician? >> >> >>Vladimir Vassilevsky >>DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant >>http://www.abvolt.com >> > >Vladimir, I think you must have misunderstood. I am not looking forjust>any kind of career, and the masters/lamers comment is quite obvious and >irrelevant. What I am saying is that I enjoy doing the little bit ofdsp>that I have done in school and for fun and am interested in learningabout>careers where individuals do dsp. I'm not sure how I'm talking nonsense >and I don't really care one way or the other. I am just looking forsome>information on dsp related careers and this seems to be the best spot to >find dsp experts and amateurs alike. If I have not been stating myintent>clearly enough, I hope this helps. Steve and Clay really helped me geta>better idea of the questions I should be asking since I was definitely >starting off with some wrong ideas. > >I really think you might be among the best suited to offer some actual >career advice if you are interested since your signature states that you >are a DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant. > > >There are a fair number of DSP jobs in the world. You have probably also noticed that people who are skilled at DSP, or think they are skilled at DSP, can be arrogant at times. This is probably true in any field. I can also be a bit cocky some days. I did my undergraduate work in Physics so I tend to like students from related degrees. I started out as an optoelectonics hardware design engineer and then moved into signal processing and finished a MS and PhD in EE along the way. I am only telling you this because I think that it is important these days to get a MS degree (you can do this while working or go back to school) if you want to have more opportunities to do primarily signal processing work. In my opinion, some of the most interesting signal processing work is in the defense communities. There is also interesting work in other areas, but the problems will generally be different. By reading and asking questions you are on the right track. When you look for a job in DSP try to fnd a place where you can work with a good DSP mentor (or several mentors). Make that a serious criteria for your job selections. Although there are some good books, there is no substitute for good mentoring. Also, in addition to software skills I would recommend working on some general hardware skills. Good DSP people often need to be good systems engineers. Hey, DSP is fun! I like it because the connections between theory and practice are very close. As you keep progressing at it you will probably also find that it can provide a very nice living. It will take some time to become a "master" at DSP, so enjoy the journey...even if someone calls you a "lamer" some day. Take care! Dave
Reply by ●March 27, 20092009-03-27
On 26 Mar, 17:24, "noodle22" <jw970...@yahoo.com> wrote:>�I'm not sure how I'm talking nonsenseThe nonsense is that you expect to make a living from your technical skills and interest in DSP. You are clearly interested, you might have talent and for all I know you might even be good at what you do. Just don't base carreer choises on this. If you have technical skills and interests, get a well-paying job and find a hobby where you can use your skills. Build an RC plane from scratch, or something like that.> and I don't really care one way or the other.Oh, you should. The problem is that none of your skills or interests are sufficient to make *other* people hire or pay you. That's the difference between work and hobby: Hobbies are expenses; jobs provide income. Unless you get to work with people who are able to recognize your skills - which means these other people would need to have similar skills themselves - you will never be able to use them. Instead, you will be busy dodging Star Trek or James Bond type insanities, from people which lack even the slighets trace of knowledge or insight in DSP, but who are your bosses and superiors. Which will not be helpful if you want promotions in your job. Or you will do implementation work. Which people with your level of interest and dedication will not be interested in, for very long. As I said in my first post: Your choise stands between *either* getting an 'interesting' job *or* making a living. Rune
Reply by ●March 27, 20092009-03-27
On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 15:53:09 -0700, Rune Allnor wrote:> On 25 Mar, 22:51, "noodle22" <jw970...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> I know this is a subjective question but I've always found DSP >> interesting and have considered doing a career in it (it certainly >> beats business apps). > > First of all, make up your mind about what you want: An 'interesting' > job or making a living. > >> Is the field growing, shrinking, or not changing? Is there much demand >> and are there many jobs available? >> >> What type of work do DSP engineers do? > > I'd say DSP is a transitionary discpline, like radio telegraphists used > to be at sea in the first half of the 20th century: The operators were > there and necessary when the field was new and worked with morse code. > Once voiced radio was possible, the specialized skills of the radio > operator were no longer necessary, as anyone could use a radio set. > > DSP is headed in the same direction.(snip) I don't see it heading in that direction at all, at least not if you can do embedded software or FPGA work. Canned DSP routines for FPGAs and DSPs are crap, unless you happen to need one for one of the big applications. As long as there are people out there making products that do new things, there will be demand for other people who can make those products work. I _do_ think that if you want to get a job "doing DSP" you need to make sure you have circuits, embedded software, and/or FPGA skills, because you'll get hired into one of those positions. If your DSP skills get you hired at all, it'll be because you're getting hired to do one of the above three jobs, and your manager understands that DSP skills is a part of it. Getting a pure DSP job, however, is a very limited field, much like a pure control systems egghead job would be -- having just DSP theory is like having an engine with no car. Nice, but not useful. -- http://www.wescottdesign.com
