HW newbie: Laptop PC and DSP cards

Hi all. 

I've just got this nifty laptop PC and I want to start playing 
with it for DSP purposes. The thing does not have any particular 
DSP-related features except what comes as standard (mic in, audio
and S-video out, some built-in sound card of unknown spec).

What it does have, is a slot for extra cards. I don't remember 
the acronym for the format, but the slot accepts "multimedia cards"
that are very similar to credit cards in physical size.

The idea is to refresh long lost assembly skills as well as
perhaps gain some new DSP programming skills. This would be just for 
fun and with no particular purpose, which means that I can't spend 
a lot of time and money getting such a project started.

So all you HW gurus out there, what potential is there for getting 
such and leisurely activity up and going? Can I use the DSP presumeably 
on the sound card? How do I go about finding out what DSP HW is there?
Is there any chance of finding free/affordable programming tools to 
exploit it (I know, this would probably be brand/vendor specific, 
but still...)? Is there any point trying to find a dedicated DSP card 
to go into the extra slot, or would that type of HW format be overly 
expensive? How do my naive ideas compare with using one of the DSP 
eval boards that are dicussed here from time to time? Any pros and 
cons with either solution?

As you can tell, at this stage I don't even know what questions are 
(ir)relevant, so please be patient with me... 

Thanks in advance for any opinions and comments.

Rune

Rune Allnor wrote:
> What it does have, is a slot for extra cards. I don't remember 
> the acronym for the format, but the slot accepts "multimedia cards"
> that are very similar to credit cards in physical size.

The acronym used to be PCMCIA (People Can't Memorize Computer Industry 
Acronyms), but now days they're called PC Cards.


-- 
Jim Thomas            Principal Applications Engineer  Bittware, Inc
jthomas@bittware.com  http://www.bittware.com          (703) 779-7770
The secret to enjoying your job is to have a hobby that's even worse
   - Calvin's Dad

Rune Allnor wrote: Is there any point trying to find a dedicated DSP card
> to go into the extra slot, or would that type of HW format be overly 
> expensive? How do my naive ideas compare with using one of the DSP 
> eval boards that are dicussed here from time to time? Any pros and 
> cons with either solution?

Hi Rune,

I don't know of any general purpose PCMCIA DSP cards.  You might find a 
modem card with a DSP on it though.

Have you considered interfacing to a stand-alone card via USB?  ADI has 
at least one eval card (for the ADSP21161) that interfaces to the host 
via USB.  It has a built-in emulator too.

-- 
Jim Thomas            Principal Applications Engineer  Bittware, Inc
jthomas@bittware.com  http://www.bittware.com          (703) 779-7770
The secret to enjoying your job is to have a hobby that's even worse
   - Calvin's Dad

Jim Thomas <jthomas@bittware.com> wrote in news:104udbp38qjnl04
@corp.supernews.com:

> Rune Allnor wrote: Is there any point trying to find a dedicated DSP 
card
>> to go into the extra slot, or would that type of HW format be overly 
>> expensive? How do my naive ideas compare with using one of the DSP 
>> eval boards that are dicussed here from time to time? Any pros and 
>> cons with either solution?
> 
> Hi Rune,
> 
> I don't know of any general purpose PCMCIA DSP cards.  You might find a 
> modem card with a DSP on it though.
> 
> Have you considered interfacing to a stand-alone card via USB?  ADI has 
> at least one eval card (for the ADSP21161) that interfaces to the host 
> via USB.  It has a built-in emulator too.
> 

Our dspstaks can connect to a PC via USB or RS-232. You can download 
programs with these interfaces or use the ports for your own purposes.

We have a dspstak 21161sx and a dspstak 21262sx. The ADSP-21262S is a 
next generation SHARC that is largely code compatible with the 21161 and 
better in most respects. It is currently the processor of choice at 
Danville.

Details are on our web site.




-- 
Al Clark
Danville Signal Processing, Inc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Purveyors of Fine DSP Hardware and other Cool Stuff
Available at http://www.danvillesignal.com

"Rune Allnor" <allnor@tele.ntnu.no> wrote in message
news:f56893ae.0403100146.10e4f02e@posting.google.com...
> Hi all.
>
> The idea is to refresh long lost assembly skills as well as
> perhaps gain some new DSP programming skills. This would be just for
> fun and with no particular purpose, which means that I can't spend
> a lot of time and money getting such a project started.
>
> So all you HW gurus out there, what potential is there for getting
> such and leisurely activity up and going? Can I use the DSP presumeably
> on the sound card? How do I go about finding out what DSP HW is there?
> Is there any chance of finding free/affordable programming tools to
> exploit it (I know, this would probably be brand/vendor specific,
> but still...)? Is there any point trying to find a dedicated DSP card
> to go into the extra slot, or would that type of HW format be overly
> expensive?

I don't know of any DSP hardware that actually comes on a PC card.  My guess
is that form factor is a bit small for most high-performance DSPs today.

I'd say there is little chance of controlling any processing running on the
HW sound card.  The easiest thing is to run the DSP on the main processor.
You can interface to the sound card I/O that way.  But if that doesn't
satisfy your needs, then an eval board would be the ticket.

In the world of the PC, "DSP" is "Digital Sound Processor"
and not "Digital Signal Processor" as you might have hoped.

"Rune Allnor" <allnor@tele.ntnu.no> wrote in message
news:f56893ae.0403100146.10e4f02e@posting.google.com...
> I've just got this nifty laptop PC and I want to start playing
> with it for DSP purposes. The thing does not have any particular
> DSP-related features except what comes as standard (mic in, audio
> and S-video out, some built-in sound card of unknown spec).

Jim Thomas <jthomas@bittware.com> wrote in message news:<104udbp38qjnl04@corp.supernews.com>...
> Rune Allnor wrote: Is there any point trying to find a dedicated DSP card
> > to go into the extra slot, or would that type of HW format be overly 
> > expensive? How do my naive ideas compare with using one of the DSP 
> > eval boards that are dicussed here from time to time? Any pros and 
> > cons with either solution?
> 
> Hi Rune,
> 
> I don't know of any general purpose PCMCIA DSP cards.  You might find a 
> modem card with a DSP on it though.

Hi Rune, Jim, and all.

Yes, there is a PCMCIA card completely based on a Blackfin processor,
namely the ADSP-21535 (or ADSP-BF535, name it as you want). Their page
in ADI's 3rd Party Collaborative Network:

http://dspcollaborative.analog.com/developers/DSP_CompanyListing.asp?c_id=275

The product is named PDE535, I quote from their website:

"Developers can now enjoy the freedom of creating a complete system
with the convenience of a laptop PC using the escape PDE 535 PCMCIA
card. Blackfin DSP development has never been easier with this
portable development tool".

Also be aware of this disclaimer:

"Driver support currently available for WindowsXP only" (Although I
think that won't be a problem).

The link is: http://www.rmiproducts.com/escapePDE535.htm

Besides that, almost all of the current ADI's EzKits are USB based and
have emulation features. It includes the EzKits for 21160, 21161 (as
Jim mentioned), 21262S, 2191, 21992, BF535, BF533, BF561, TS101S and
TS201. Other (older) kits have a debugging monitor based on RS-232 +
UART: 2181, 2189, 21061 and 21065L. So you can also use them with a
laptop (and probably a USB-to-RS232 adaptor).

So you have many choices, I think!

Regards,

JaaC

> 
> Have you considered interfacing to a stand-alone card via USB?  ADI has 
> at least one eval card (for the ADSP21161) that interfaces to the host 
> via USB.  It has a built-in emulator too.

"Jaime Andres Aranguren Cardona" <jaime.aranguren@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:14a86f87.0403101647.7bd17619@posting.google.com...
> Jim Thomas <jthomas@bittware.com> wrote in message
news:<104udbp38qjnl04@corp.supernews.com>...
> > Rune Allnor wrote: Is there any point trying to find a dedicated DSP
card
> > > to go into the extra slot, or would that type of HW format be overly
> > > expensive? How do my naive ideas compare with using one of the DSP
> > > eval boards that are dicussed here from time to time? Any pros and
> > > cons with either solution?
> >
> > Hi Rune,
> >
> > I don't know of any general purpose PCMCIA DSP cards.  You might find a
> > modem card with a DSP on it though.
>
> Yes, there is a PCMCIA card completely based on a Blackfin processor,
> namely the ADSP-21535 (or ADSP-BF535, name it as you want). Their page
> in ADI's 3rd Party Collaborative Network:
>
>
http://dspcollaborative.analog.com/developers/DSP_CompanyListing.asp?c_id=275
>
> The product is named PDE535, I quote from their website:
>
> "Developers can now enjoy the freedom of creating a complete system
> with the convenience of a laptop PC using the escape PDE 535 PCMCIA
> card. Blackfin DSP development has never been easier with this
> portable development tool".

That's pretty cool!  If I'm understanding it, you'd have to make your own
I/O, though (e.g. analog audio), so it probably would be simpler to use a
development board if you need "real world" I/O.

X-No-Archive: Yes

allnor@tele.ntnu.no (Rune Allnor) wrote:

>but still...)? Is there any point trying to find a dedicated DSP card 
>to go into the extra slot, or would that type of HW format be overly 
>expensive? How do my naive ideas compare with using one of the DSP 
>eval boards that are dicussed here from time to time? Any pros and 
>cons with either solution?

Several ( or maybe most ) of the DSP eval boards are connected via
parallel port or USB, so doesn't matter if you have PC or laptop.  Of
course, that involves a bit of a purchase.  I heard there is a ADI
blackfin kit for $99 US, which is a deal.  But still not free.

Regards,

Robert

www.gldsp.com

( modify address for return email )

www.numbersusa.com
www.americanpatrol.com

"Airy R. Bean" <airy.r.bean@lycos.co.uk> wrote in message news:<c2nt22$1vl0md$1@ID-217727.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> In the world of the PC, "DSP" is "Digital Sound Processor"
> and not "Digital Signal Processor" as you might have hoped.

That's OK. I'm interested in processing sounds. Although not audio.

Rune