Hi, Friends! Does anyone read Mr. Fredric Harris's book "Multirate signal processing for communication systems" ? I think it's a good book for engineering, but some descriptions make me confused. On page 53, Chapter 3 "For a specific example, the filter presented in Figure 3.20 designed for 60dB side-lobe levels is used in a 32-to-1 down sampling application. If the side-lobes are equiripple at 60-dB the integrated side-lobe level is -36.1dB which, when distributed over the remaining bandwidth of 1/32 (-15.1 dB) of input sample rate, results in an effective alias side-lobe suppression of -51 .2dB, equivalent." Who knows the "integrated side-lobe level"'s meaning? And why it's "-36.1dB "? It's a pity that Mr.Harris may does not receive my Email and doesn't reply. Who can give me a help for this question? --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---
Does Anyone read Mr.Harris's book "Multirate signal processing for communication systems"
Started by ●May 18, 2010
Reply by ●May 18, 20102010-05-18
On May 18, 1:26�am, "Zhi.Shen" <zhi.m.s...@gmail.com> wrote:> Hi, Friends! > > �Does anyone read Mr. Fredric Harris's book > "Multirate signal processing for communication systems" ? > > �I think it's a good book for engineering, > but some descriptions make me confused. > > On page 53, Chapter 3 > "For a specific example, the filter presented in Figure 3.20 designed for > 60dB side-lobe levels is used in a 32-to-1 down sampling application. If the > side-lobes are equiripple at 60-dB the integrated side-lobe level is -36.1dB > which, when distributed over the remaining bandwidth of 1/32 (-15.1 dB) of > input sample rate, results in an effective alias side-lobe suppression > of -51 .2dB, equivalent." > > Who knows the "integrated side-lobe level"'s meaning?That's the name of the integral of the filter response across all the sidelobes in the stopband.> And why it's "-36.1dB "?That's the calculation of the integral of the filter response across all the sidelobes in the stopband.>...Dale B. Dalrymple
Reply by ●May 18, 20102010-05-18
On 5/18/2010 4:26 AM, Zhi.Shen wrote:> Hi, Friends! > > Does anyone read Mr. Fredric Harris's book > "Multirate signal processing for communication systems" ? > > I think it's a good book for engineering, > but some descriptions make me confused. > > On page 53, Chapter 3 > "For a specific example, the filter presented in Figure 3.20 designed for > 60dB side-lobe levels is used in a 32-to-1 down sampling application. If the > side-lobes are equiripple at 60-dB the integrated side-lobe level is -36.1dB > which, when distributed over the remaining bandwidth of 1/32 (-15.1 dB) of > input sample rate, results in an effective alias side-lobe suppression > of -51 .2dB, equivalent." > > Who knows the "integrated side-lobe level"'s meaning? > And why it's "-36.1dB "? > It's a pity that Mr.Harris may does not receive my Email and doesn't reply. > Who can give me a help for this question?http://www.google.com/search?q=integrated+sidelobe+level&spell http://electrical.sdsu.edu/faculty/frederick_harris.html Jerry -- "I view the progress of science as ... the slow erosion of the tendency to dichotomize." --Barbara Smuts, U. Mich. �����������������������������������������������������������������������
Reply by ●May 18, 20102010-05-18
On 5/18/2010 11:29 AM, dbd wrote:> On May 18, 1:26 am, "Zhi.Shen"<zhi.m.s...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Hi, Friends! >> >> Does anyone read Mr. Fredric Harris's book >> "Multirate signal processing for communication systems" ? >> >> I think it's a good book for engineering, >> but some descriptions make me confused. >> >> On page 53, Chapter 3 >> "For a specific example, the filter presented in Figure 3.20 designed for >> 60dB side-lobe levels is used in a 32-to-1 down sampling application. If the >> side-lobes are equiripple at 60-dB the integrated side-lobe level is -36.1dB >> which, when distributed over the remaining bandwidth of 1/32 (-15.1 dB) of >> input sample rate, results in an effective alias side-lobe suppression >> of -51 .2dB, equivalent." >> >> Who knows the "integrated side-lobe level"'s meaning? > > That's the name of the integral of the filter response across all the > sidelobes in the stopband. > >> And why it's "-36.1dB "? > > That's the calculation of the integral of the filter response across > all the sidelobes in the stopband.Of course, it's power that one integrates, not voltage gain. Jerry -- "I view the progress of science as ... the slow erosion of the tendency to dichotomize." --Barbara Smuts, U. Mich. �����������������������������������������������������������������������
Reply by ●May 19, 20102010-05-19
On Tue, 18 May 2010 08:29:59 -0700 (PDT), dbd <dbd@ieee.org> wrote:>On May 18, 1:26�am, "Zhi.Shen" <zhi.m.s...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Hi, Friends! >> >> �Does anyone read Mr. Fredric Harris's book >> "Multirate signal processing for communication systems" ? >> >> �I think it's a good book for engineering, >> but some descriptions make me confused. >> >> On page 53, Chapter 3 >> "For a specific example, the filter presented in Figure 3.20 designed for >> 60dB side-lobe levels is used in a 32-to-1 down sampling application. If the >> side-lobes are equiripple at 60-dB the integrated side-lobe level is -36.1dB >> which, when distributed over the remaining bandwidth of 1/32 (-15.1 dB) of >> input sample rate, results in an effective alias side-lobe suppression >> of -51 .2dB, equivalent." >> >> Who knows the "integrated side-lobe level"'s meaning? > >That's the name of the integral of the filter response across all the >sidelobes in the stopband. > >> And why it's "-36.1dB "? > >That's the calculation of the integral of the filter response across >all the sidelobes in the stopband. > >>... > >Dale B. DalrympleHi Mr. Dalrymple, Thank you for your post. I would also like to understand the origin of the -36.1 dB value. A "dB" measurement is "X db = 10*log10(P1/P2)". In this case, will you please tell what are the values of P1 and P2, and how P1 and P2 are computed (determined), in that -36.1 dB measurement? Thank you very much. Capt. Convolution
Reply by ●May 19, 20102010-05-19
On May 19, 1:09�pm, Capt. Convolution <C.Convolut...@aol.com> wrote:> ... > > Hi Mr. Dalrymple, > � �Thank you for your post. �I would also like to understand the > origin of the -36.1 dB value. � > > A "dB" measurement is "X db = 10*log10(P1/P2)". �In this case, will > you please tell what are the values of P1 and P2, and how P1 and P2 > are computed (determined), in that -36.1 dB measurement? > > Thank you very much. > Capt. ConvolutionP2, the reference for the dB expression, is the peak of the response in the passband. P1 is "the calculation of the integral of the filter response across all the sidelobes in the stopband." The "response" is the magnitude squared. Dale B. Dalrymple
Reply by ●May 19, 20102010-05-19
Thank you ALL! Friends! I have known the meaning of "integrated side-lobe level" But who can provide a simple example for the calculation process of integrated side-lobe level? If it's the process of Harris's -36.1dB, the Better!> > --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ------ news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---
Reply by ●May 19, 20102010-05-19
Hi, I have found a paper to descript the "integrated side-lobe level" exactly. http://ams.confex.com/ams/pdfpapers/123417.pdf ISL's(integrated side-lobe level) definition is also appeared in some others' book, such as Hamish Meikle's book: "Modern radar systems", page 316 http://books.google.com.hk/books?id=mGSE_tmA_HQC&pg=PA316&lpg=PA316&dq=%22integrated+sidelobe+level%22&source=bl&ots=sO1Ej2YtcI&sig=OKqTRf81j4ak5iL8X3ITCo4DqkE&hl=zh-CN&ei=GaD0S7DJB8qOkQXPytzACA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CBwQ6AEwBDgK#v=onepage&q=%22integrated%20sidelobe%20level%22&f=false --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---
Reply by ●May 20, 20102010-05-20
On May 19, 7:40�pm, "Zhi.Shen" <zhi.m.s...@gmail.com> wrote:> Thank you ALL! Friends! > � I have known the meaning of "integrated side-lobe level" > But who can provide a simple example for the calculation process of > integrated side-lobe level? > � ...What have you tried? Dale B. Dalrymple
Reply by ●May 20, 20102010-05-20
On Thu, 20 May 2010 10:54:15 +0800, "Zhi.Shen" <zhi.m.shen@gmail.com> wrote:>Hi,Hello Mr. Shen.Zhi,> I have found a paper to descript the "integrated side-lobe level" exactly. >http://ams.confex.com/ams/pdfpapers/123417.pdfThe definition, on page 2, of "integrated side-lobe level" in that PDF file is written in such a vague way that i was not able to understand it. When the author kept referring to a "mainlobe" I could not tell if the author was referring to the spectrum of a filter output signal, or the frequency response of the filter.>ISL's(integrated side-lobe level) definition is also appeared in some >others' book, such as > >Hamish Meikle's book: "Modern radar systems", page 316 >http://books.google.com.hk/books?id=mGSE_tmA_HQC&pg=PA316&lpg=PA316&dq=%22integrated+sidelobe+level%22&source=bl&ots=sO1Ej2YtcI&sig=OKqTRf81j4ak5iL8X3ITCo4DqkE&hl=zh-CN&ei=GaD0S7DJB8qOkQXPytzACA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CBwQ6AEwBDgK#v=onepage&q=%22integrated%20sidelobe%20level%22&f=falseThat web site appears to be strickly some Asian language. I tried examining the Amazon English version of the book but was unable to learn anything about "integrated side-lobe level". Capt. Convolution
