Forums

Anyone using TMS470 (ARM) toolset?

Started by Vladimir Vassilevsky June 21, 2010
Hello All,

I have to use a TMS470 C/C++ compiler (TMS470 == ARM). The toolset 
wasn't my choice. The more I use it, the more nonsense I discover and 
more doubts I have. Also, in theory there is TI DSP BIOS for ARM, but 
zero documentation.
I suspect those tools are kinda unloved by TI, and I am the only one who 
   had ever tried them, and the earlier I switch to something different, 
the better. Is that really so?


Vladimir Vassilevsky
DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant
http://www.abvolt.com
On 06/21/2010 03:16 PM, Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
> > Hello All, > > I have to use a TMS470 C/C++ compiler (TMS470 == ARM). The toolset > wasn't my choice. The more I use it, the more nonsense I discover and > more doubts I have. Also, in theory there is TI DSP BIOS for ARM, but > zero documentation. > I suspect those tools are kinda unloved by TI, and I am the only one who > had ever tried them, and the earlier I switch to something different, > the better. Is that really so?
Ouch. There are a bunch of nice ARM toolsets out there, I see no reason to be trapped into one that sucks. Maybe you should start annotating your bills: so many hours problem solving, so many hours designing, so many hours wrestling with stupid tools... -- Tim Wescott Control system and signal processing consulting www.wescottdesign.com
On Jun 22, 2:28=A0am, Tim Wescott <t...@seemywebsite.now> wrote:
> On 06/21/2010 03:16 PM, Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote: > > > > > Hello All, > > > I have to use a TMS470 C/C++ compiler (TMS470 =3D=3D ARM). The toolset > > wasn't my choice. The more I use it, the more nonsense I discover and > > more doubts I have.
Welcome to the club :-) (or the jungle?) If you just started with TI, you should be prepared to face in any field that they are involved industry-standard things (ARM, Linux, etc.) but done in unique "TI way". There is a lot of non-sense on many layers, which even TI field support in many cases fail to explain. But that's the reality, and their prices are good for most products (nonsense included).
>> Also, in theory there is TI DSP BIOS for ARM, but > > zero documentation.
I think that DSP/BIOS for ARM doesn't exist (at least I never heard about it existing for anything besides C3000/5000/6000 family). TI likes to focus on its core business and they see development of toolchains (like DSP C compiler) and OS (DSP/BIOS) as necessary evil. They introduced ARM-based DSPs for one of the main reasons the sake of taking advantage of Linux, GCC and other industry-standard tools and gradually phase out sales and support for own "side" software. However here the right hand doesn't know what the left hand does: in the mean time they have to support all the parts and provide interoperation between them; TI guys that do the work do it in their own way, and now we have what we have :-( Just a month or so ago TI and CodeSourcery announced that CS would port GCC to C6000 to replace TI's toolset. A good beginning but there are yet "miles to go before" we get it, and if it will not be abandoned in the middle. Sorry for long passage just to say at the end that we've got what we've got. There's a lot of "nonsense" in TI's infrastructure, but as long as there prices are good it's "take it or leave it" situation. If you absolutely can't get along with their tools then you may try some open-source support for their platform (my experience tells that in at least 95% of cases it will either not work at all or not do what is written on TI's product box) or switch to another vendor (not easy because TI's prices are tempting).
> > I suspect those tools are kinda unloved by TI, and I am the only one wh=
o
> > had ever tried them, and the earlier I switch to something different, > > the better. Is that really so?
If you switch to something different and stick to TMS470 you will lose TI support.
> Ouch. =A0There are a bunch of nice ARM toolsets out there, I see no reaso=
n
> to be trapped into one that sucks.
The one is only reason is that if you later complain to TI or Spectrum Digital that something doesn't work and tell them you're not using the "authentic" tools they will tell you "we have no idea what you're talking about".
> Maybe you should start annotating your bills: so many hours problem > solving, so many hours designing, so many hours wrestling with stupid > tools...
It won't work with TI. They are too big to care about any particular customer lost and they never claim that they do things in any way "sensible" to third-party judgement. OTOH their prices are usually too tempting to throw away their offer just because you can't fight stupid tools. Daniel
On 06/22/2010 12:57 AM, Stargazer wrote:
> On Jun 22, 2:28 am, Tim Wescott<t...@seemywebsite.now> wrote: >> On 06/21/2010 03:16 PM, Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
-- much whining and ranting snipped --
> It won't work with TI. They are too big to care about any particular > customer lost and they never claim that they do things in any way > "sensible" to third-party judgement. OTOH their prices are usually too > tempting to throw away their offer just because you can't fight stupid > tools.
There's a reason they named it "Code Composter". Too bad they misspelled the second word. -- Tim Wescott Control system and signal processing consulting www.wescottdesign.com
On 2010-06-22, Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.now> wrote:
> On 06/22/2010 12:57 AM, Stargazer wrote: >> On Jun 22, 2:28 am, Tim Wescott<t...@seemywebsite.now> wrote: >>> On 06/21/2010 03:16 PM, Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote: > > -- much whining and ranting snipped -- > >> It won't work with TI. They are too big to care about any particular >> customer lost and they never claim that they do things in any way >> "sensible" to third-party judgement. OTOH their prices are usually too >> tempting to throw away their offer just because you can't fight stupid >> tools. > > There's a reason they named it "Code Composter". Too bad they > misspelled the second word.
At the last MSP430 "event" I went to, the TI FAE openly discouraged anybody from using CC for the '430. The freebie demo kits they gave out contained an IAR demo toolchain. I did use CC for a TI DSP once, and though it basically worked, it wasn't nice. -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwards Yow! World War Three can at be averted by adherence gmail.com to a strictly enforced dress code!
On 06/22/2010 07:45 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2010-06-22, Tim Wescott<tim@seemywebsite.now> wrote: >> On 06/22/2010 12:57 AM, Stargazer wrote: >>> On Jun 22, 2:28 am, Tim Wescott<t...@seemywebsite.now> wrote: >>>> On 06/21/2010 03:16 PM, Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote: >> >> -- much whining and ranting snipped -- >> >>> It won't work with TI. They are too big to care about any particular >>> customer lost and they never claim that they do things in any way >>> "sensible" to third-party judgement. OTOH their prices are usually too >>> tempting to throw away their offer just because you can't fight stupid >>> tools. >> >> There's a reason they named it "Code Composter". Too bad they >> misspelled the second word. > > At the last MSP430 "event" I went to, the TI FAE openly discouraged > anybody from using CC for the '430. The freebie demo kits they gave > out contained an IAR demo toolchain. I did use CC for a TI DSP once, > and though it basically worked, it wasn't nice. >
AFAIK Code Composter is the only game in town for processors like the '2812. The compiler is OK, the debugger is far better than nothing*, but I've never used a captive IDE that I really liked. * But then, any debugger is far better than nothing. -- Tim Wescott Control system and signal processing consulting www.wescottdesign.com
Last time on comp.arch.embedded, Vladimir Vassilevsky
<nospam@nowhere.com> said:

> >Hello All, > >I have to use a TMS470 C/C++ compiler (TMS470 == ARM).
Which one? There are several (IAR, Rowley, Keil, gcc).
>Also, in theory there is TI DSP BIOS for ARM, but >zero documentation.
The TMS470 family doesn't have DSPs, so even if a DSP BIOS exists it isn't likely to do you much good.
>I suspect those tools are kinda unloved by TI, and I am the only one who > had ever tried them, and the earlier I switch to something different, >the better.
IAR EWARM in particular is well supported by TI, much more so than the others I have tried. IAR offers a KickStart version; it has a 32K code limitation, but the price is right.
Fred <fuque@hotmail.com> writes:
> [...] > IAR offers a KickStart version; it has a 32K code > limitation, but the price is right.
I used the IAR/Kickstart for a couple of MSP430 projects and found it to be a very good toolset/IDE. -- Randy Yates % "Maybe one day I'll feel her cold embrace, Digital Signal Labs % and kiss her interface, mailto://yates@ieee.org % til then, I'll leave her alone." http://www.digitalsignallabs.com % 'Yours Truly, 2095', *Time*, ELO