advice on course of action - a techie's retribution

Hi,

I just gave a talk to a mixed audience comprised of what they term
"high level" and "low level" people on what I've been developing over
the past 3 years.

I'd thought initially - judging from the immediate response I got from
the "low level" people - that things went down well. Now I've just
discovered to my dismay (understatement) that the "high level" people
who hold sway over my bread think otherwise. And although they liked
what I'm proposing, they take on me my "lack of clarity" in explaining
shit for them. Consequently, they stated that "we don't give jobs to
people who lack clarity."

What has conspired is that I found myself arguing for something
potentially doable on top of what I've already delivered on and they
kept not getting what I was alluding to. That has - according to my
supervisor - screwed up the natural momentum/karma/shit of the talk
and left behind only lasting dissatisfaction.

I'm not pissed off like hell and contemplating one of the below:
(1) keep my mouth shut, turn the other cheek, and pray for better
days.
(2) take my time to plan an exist strategy from my current work and
keep my mouth shut until then.
(3) be my father's son and give everybody the finger and quit.
(4) REALLY be my father's son, give everybody the finger, burn down
everything I've developed, and quite.
(5) REALLY REALLY be my father's son, give everybody the finger, burn
down everything I've developed, disappear under the guise of the
night, and go do it all over in Asia. One way ticket to Asia clearly
making the my case that if you failing to understand in 20 minutes
what I've been saddled with for the past three years and holding me
responsible for scratch my ego.

Any thoughts before it's too late are highly appreciated.

-Momo

On Jul 29, 6:38&#4294967295;pm, Manny <mlou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Any thoughts before it's too late are highly appreciated.

i can identify with the feeling of not being sufficiently appreciated
by people who never should have been bestowed the power they have.

without more specific information, i can't advise.  it might be that
if you burn down everything you've developed, that the "high level"
folks wouldn't notice because they don't give a shit.  and, if all of
your files are backed up in the organization's server, you can't burn
it all down anyway.

i guess you need to find someone else who does "get it" and see if
they'll hire you to (re)develop it.  and hope that your old
organization does not feel they've been robbed (of something they
don't value either).

r b-j

Manny,

All whining in the world is not going to change anything not by one 
millimeter.

VLV


Manny wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I just gave a talk to a mixed audience comprised of what they term
> "high level" and "low level" people on what I've been developing over
> the past 3 years.
> 
> I'd thought initially - judging from the immediate response I got from
> the "low level" people - that things went down well. Now I've just
> discovered to my dismay (understatement) that the "high level" people
> who hold sway over my bread think otherwise. And although they liked
> what I'm proposing, they take on me my "lack of clarity" in explaining
> shit for them. Consequently, they stated that "we don't give jobs to
> people who lack clarity."
> 
> What has conspired is that I found myself arguing for something
> potentially doable on top of what I've already delivered on and they
> kept not getting what I was alluding to. That has - according to my
> supervisor - screwed up the natural momentum/karma/shit of the talk
> and left behind only lasting dissatisfaction.
> 
> I'm not pissed off like hell and contemplating one of the below:
> (1) keep my mouth shut, turn the other cheek, and pray for better
> days.
> (2) take my time to plan an exist strategy from my current work and
> keep my mouth shut until then.
> (3) be my father's son and give everybody the finger and quit.
> (4) REALLY be my father's son, give everybody the finger, burn down
> everything I've developed, and quite.
> (5) REALLY REALLY be my father's son, give everybody the finger, burn
> down everything I've developed, disappear under the guise of the
> night, and go do it all over in Asia. One way ticket to Asia clearly
> making the my case that if you failing to understand in 20 minutes
> what I've been saddled with for the past three years and holding me
> responsible for scratch my ego.
> 
> Any thoughts before it's too late are highly appreciated.
> 
> -Momo

On Jul 29, 6:38&#4294967295;pm, Manny <mlou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I just gave a talk to a mixed audience comprised of what they term
> "high level" and "low level" people on what I've been developing over
> the past 3 years.
>
> I'd thought initially - judging from the immediate response I got from
> the "low level" people - that things went down well. Now I've just
> discovered to my dismay (understatement) that the "high level" people
> who hold sway over my bread think otherwise. And although they liked
> what I'm proposing, they take on me my "lack of clarity" in explaining
> shit for them. Consequently, they stated that "we don't give jobs to
> people who lack clarity."
>
> What has conspired is that I found myself arguing for something
> potentially doable on top of what I've already delivered on and they
> kept not getting what I was alluding to. That has - according to my
> supervisor - screwed up the natural momentum/karma/shit of the talk
> and left behind only lasting dissatisfaction.
>
> I'm not pissed off like hell and contemplating one of the below:
> (1) keep my mouth shut, turn the other cheek, and pray for better
> days.
> (2) take my time to plan an exist strategy from my current work and
> keep my mouth shut until then.
> (3) be my father's son and give everybody the finger and quit.
> (4) REALLY be my father's son, give everybody the finger, burn down
> everything I've developed, and quite.
> (5) REALLY REALLY be my father's son, give everybody the finger, burn
> down everything I've developed, disappear under the guise of the
> night, and go do it all over in Asia. One way ticket to Asia clearly
> making the my case that if you failing to understand in 20 minutes
> what I've been saddled with for the past three years and holding me
> responsible for scratch my ego.
>
> Any thoughts before it's too late are highly appreciated.
>
> -Momo

My advice is to write a real clear and thoughful paper about what it
is that you want to do and give it to the people who are complaining
that you lack clarity.  Nothing will probably come of it, but there is
a difference between those who talk and those who take the time to
write out their proposals.  The talkers are always crying in the
corner and the writers are getting to do what they want (but usually
not right away)
Be patient.

I always tell my kids that fairness in life is a very long integral,
not an instantaneous function to be looked at every day.

On Jul 29, 6:38&#4294967295;pm, Manny <mlou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I just gave a talk to a mixed audience comprised of what they term
> "high level" and "low level" people on what I've been developing over
> the past 3 years.
>
> I'd thought initially - judging from the immediate response I got from
> the "low level" people - that things went down well. Now I've just
> discovered to my dismay (understatement) that the "high level" people
> who hold sway over my bread think otherwise. And although they liked
> what I'm proposing, they take on me my "lack of clarity" in explaining
> shit for them. Consequently, they stated that "we don't give jobs to
> people who lack clarity."
>
> What has conspired is that I found myself arguing for something
> potentially doable on top of what I've already delivered on and they
> kept not getting what I was alluding to. That has - according to my
> supervisor - screwed up the natural momentum/karma/shit of the talk
> and left behind only lasting dissatisfaction.
>
> I'm not pissed off like hell and contemplating one of the below:
> (1) keep my mouth shut, turn the other cheek, and pray for better
> days.
> (2) take my time to plan an exist strategy from my current work and
> keep my mouth shut until then.
> (3) be my father's son and give everybody the finger and quit.
> (4) REALLY be my father's son, give everybody the finger, burn down
> everything I've developed, and quite.
> (5) REALLY REALLY be my father's son, give everybody the finger, burn
> down everything I've developed, disappear under the guise of the
> night, and go do it all over in Asia. One way ticket to Asia clearly
> making the my case that if you failing to understand in 20 minutes
> what I've been saddled with for the past three years and holding me
> responsible for scratch my ego.
>
> Any thoughts before it's too late are highly appreciated.
>
> -Momo

I will add a little bit more.

I do not know how old you are, but I suspect that most engineers start
off doing a good job and being appreciated.  It is not too hard when
you first start out to meet expectations.

Then one day you wake up and you are not the whiz kid who can do no
wrong.  Or even worse you are in the middle of a crisis and the
feeling is that everyone wants to blame you.

You are not worth much until you weather  the storm of plugging along
even when you know you are in the dog house and people think you
suck.  Very few people get through life being the golden child their
entire career.

On Jul 30, 12:34&#4294967295;am, brent <buleg...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
> On Jul 29, 6:38&#4294967295;pm, Manny <mlou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> > I just gave a talk to a mixed audience comprised of what they term
> > "high level" and "low level" people on what I've been developing over
> > the past 3 years.
>
> > I'd thought initially - judging from the immediate response I got from
> > the "low level" people - that things went down well. Now I've just
> > discovered to my dismay (understatement) that the "high level" people
> > who hold sway over my bread think otherwise. And although they liked
> > what I'm proposing, they take on me my "lack of clarity" in explaining
> > shit for them. Consequently, they stated that "we don't give jobs to
> > people who lack clarity."
>
> > What has conspired is that I found myself arguing for something
> > potentially doable on top of what I've already delivered on and they
> > kept not getting what I was alluding to. That has - according to my
> > supervisor - screwed up the natural momentum/karma/shit of the talk
> > and left behind only lasting dissatisfaction.
>
> > I'm not pissed off like hell and contemplating one of the below:
> > (1) keep my mouth shut, turn the other cheek, and pray for better
> > days.
> > (2) take my time to plan an exist strategy from my current work and
> > keep my mouth shut until then.
> > (3) be my father's son and give everybody the finger and quit.
> > (4) REALLY be my father's son, give everybody the finger, burn down
> > everything I've developed, and quite.
> > (5) REALLY REALLY be my father's son, give everybody the finger, burn
> > down everything I've developed, disappear under the guise of the
> > night, and go do it all over in Asia. One way ticket to Asia clearly
> > making the my case that if you failing to understand in 20 minutes
> > what I've been saddled with for the past three years and holding me
> > responsible for scratch my ego.
>
> > Any thoughts before it's too late are highly appreciated.
>
> > -Momo
>
> I will add a little bit more.
>
> I do not know how old you are, but I suspect that most engineers start
> off doing a good job and being appreciated. &#4294967295;It is not too hard when
> you first start out to meet expectations.
>
> Then one day you wake up and you are not the whiz kid who can do no
> wrong. &#4294967295;Or even worse you are in the middle of a crisis and the
> feeling is that everyone wants to blame you.
>
> You are not worth much until you weather &#4294967295;the storm of plugging along
> even when you know you are in the dog house and people think you
> suck. &#4294967295;Very few people get through life being the golden child their
> entire career.

Agreed.

I'm still under 30. And I've delivered on something I and others think
is quite fresh and interesting. I've gambled everything I have on this
and would've totally kept my mouth shut if I came short. And while
people and enjoying the fruition of their mediocrity, I'm being
whipped under the "clarity pretext." I would've perfectly been content
had they said: "that's all cool but we don't have anything to match
what you can do for us, go away." But now it's a different story.

On the other hand, I don't know what to do with these rage genes I
have. Went earlier and worked out like hell, still blood is boiling. I
need some pills, or puffs.

Sometimes you think that by virtue of birth, there'r certain things
that are off the limits.

Anyway, probably should sleep on it for now, and stop working hard for
now that's for sure.

At any rate, thanks for the input.

-Momo

On Jul 29, 7:47&#4294967295;pm, Manny <mlou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 30, 12:34&#4294967295;am, brent <buleg...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 29, 6:38&#4294967295;pm, Manny <mlou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Hi,
>
> > > I just gave a talk to a mixed audience comprised of what they term
> > > "high level" and "low level" people on what I've been developing over
> > > the past 3 years.
>
> > > I'd thought initially - judging from the immediate response I got from
> > > the "low level" people - that things went down well. Now I've just
> > > discovered to my dismay (understatement) that the "high level" people
> > > who hold sway over my bread think otherwise. And although they liked
> > > what I'm proposing, they take on me my "lack of clarity" in explaining
> > > shit for them. Consequently, they stated that "we don't give jobs to
> > > people who lack clarity."
>
> > > What has conspired is that I found myself arguing for something
> > > potentially doable on top of what I've already delivered on and they
> > > kept not getting what I was alluding to. That has - according to my
> > > supervisor - screwed up the natural momentum/karma/shit of the talk
> > > and left behind only lasting dissatisfaction.
>
> > > I'm not pissed off like hell and contemplating one of the below:
> > > (1) keep my mouth shut, turn the other cheek, and pray for better
> > > days.
> > > (2) take my time to plan an exist strategy from my current work and
> > > keep my mouth shut until then.
> > > (3) be my father's son and give everybody the finger and quit.
> > > (4) REALLY be my father's son, give everybody the finger, burn down
> > > everything I've developed, and quite.
> > > (5) REALLY REALLY be my father's son, give everybody the finger, burn
> > > down everything I've developed, disappear under the guise of the
> > > night, and go do it all over in Asia. One way ticket to Asia clearly
> > > making the my case that if you failing to understand in 20 minutes
> > > what I've been saddled with for the past three years and holding me
> > > responsible for scratch my ego.
>
> > > Any thoughts before it's too late are highly appreciated.
>
> > > -Momo
>
> > I will add a little bit more.
>
> > I do not know how old you are, but I suspect that most engineers start
> > off doing a good job and being appreciated. &#4294967295;It is not too hard when
> > you first start out to meet expectations.
>
> > Then one day you wake up and you are not the whiz kid who can do no
> > wrong. &#4294967295;Or even worse you are in the middle of a crisis and the
> > feeling is that everyone wants to blame you.
>
> > You are not worth much until you weather &#4294967295;the storm of plugging along
> > even when you know you are in the dog house and people think you
> > suck. &#4294967295;Very few people get through life being the golden child their
> > entire career.
>
> Agreed.
>
> I'm still under 30. And I've delivered on something I and others think
> is quite fresh and interesting. I've gambled everything I have on this
> and would've totally kept my mouth shut if I came short. And while
> people and enjoying the fruition of their mediocrity, I'm being
> whipped under the "clarity pretext." I would've perfectly been content
> had they said: "that's all cool but we don't have anything to match
> what you can do for us, go away." But now it's a different story.
>
> On the other hand, I don't know what to do with these rage genes I
> have. Went earlier and worked out like hell, still blood is boiling. I
> need some pills, or puffs.
>
> Sometimes you think that by virtue of birth, there'r certain things
> that are off the limits.
>
> Anyway, probably should sleep on it for now, and stop working hard for
> now that's for sure.
>
> At any rate, thanks for the input.
>
> -Momo

This is a true story for me.  I used to really try to get people to
buy into my ideas and I worked real hard and constantly was trying to
get the company to do new stuff.  I would go home and think about new
products and everything.  I was kind of uptight.  Then I noticed the
party crowd.  Constantly yucking it up, constantly having meeting to
discuss the best processes to use .  Lunches, pizzas, hands behind
their necks pontificating about the meaning of corporate life.

Finally I said screw this.  I am going to try the "fun" route.  And I
got my best raises in my whole career and my work ethic has never
fully recovered from this, but the Dilbert cartoon is kind of accurate.

On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:38:39 -0700 (PDT), Manny <mloulah@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I'd thought initially - judging from the immediate response I got from
>the "low level" people - that things went down well. Now I've just
>discovered to my dismay (understatement) that the "high level" people
>who hold sway over my bread think otherwise. And although they liked
>what I'm proposing, they take on me my "lack of clarity" in explaining
>shit for them. Consequently, they stated that "we don't give jobs to
>people who lack clarity."

(snip)

>I'm not pissed off like hell and contemplating one of the below:
>(1) keep my mouth shut, turn the other cheek, and pray for better
>days.
>(2) take my time to plan an exist strategy from my current work and
>keep my mouth shut until then.
>(3) be my father's son and give everybody the finger and quit.
>(4) REALLY be my father's son, give everybody the finger, burn down
>everything I've developed, and quite.
>(5) REALLY REALLY be my father's son, give everybody the finger, burn
>down everything I've developed, disappear under the guise of the
>night, and go do it all over in Asia. One way ticket to Asia clearly
>making the my case that if you failing to understand in 20 minutes
>what I've been saddled with for the past three years and holding me
>responsible for scratch my ego.
>
>Any thoughts before it's too late are highly appreciated.

(6) Accept the idea that you actually lack clarity.  You wouldn't be the first
engineer who did.  So find an advocate among the "low level" people who
understands what you're proposing, and try to use your advocate as a translator
between what you say and what you mean.  If what you've done in the past is as
good as you think, then the "high level" people will be receptive to your
proposal once it's expressed in ways that they understand.  If not, then
consider that what you've done in the past wasn't quite as impressive as you
thought.

If option (6) doesn't work for you, then go with (1) or (2) -- always leave on
good terms, even if you were mistreated.  You never know when one of those "low
level" people will become a "high level" person and ask you back.

Options (3), (4), and (5) are unprofessional, immature, unethical, and even
illegal.  People don't forget this kind of behavior.  And they can get back at
you just by telling the truth about you.

Greg

> (6) Accept the idea that you actually lack clarity. �You wouldn't be the first
> engineer who did. �So find an advocate among the "low level" people who
> understands what you're proposing, and try to use your advocate as a translator
> between what you say and what you mean. �If what you've done in the past is as
> good as you think, then the "high level" people will be receptive to your
> proposal once it's expressed in ways that they understand. �If not, then
> consider that what you've done in the past wasn't quite as impressive as you
> thought.
I above all know this and constantly tell people that I cann't explain
something inherently complex in lay terms. What I'm pissed about is
that this "low level" dude is something of a heavy weight that people
fear and revere. And if the "high level" dude chose to override the
"low level" dude's judgement, it tells you a thing or two, doesn't it?

> If option (6) doesn't work for you, then go with (1) or (2) -- always leave on
> good terms, even if you were mistreated. �You never know when one of those "low
> level" people will become a "high level" person and ask you back.
>
> Options (3), (4), and (5) are unprofessional, immature, unethical, and even
> illegal. �People don't forget this kind of behavior. �And they can get back at
> you just by telling the truth about you.
Those who know me know my dry sense of humour---I oftentimes tell my
supervisor that if he were to attempt to pull off the things I
regularly brief him on on his own, this is what I'd do. As much as I
like to do this, I know I can't do it. Still I like to go around
telling people what deep inside I fancy doing. That said, there are
certain things that I could stall and go and do with the Asians while
completely operating within the law and the professional code of
conduct.

-Momo

On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 17:23:33 -0700 (PDT), Manny <mloulah@hotmail.com> wrote:

>And if the "high level" dude chose to override the
>"low level" dude's judgement, it tells you a thing or two, doesn't it?

Yes.  It tells me that you need to re-read the final sentence in my description
of option (6).

>That said, there are
>certain things that I could stall and go and do with the Asians while
>completely operating within the law and the professional code of
>conduct.

I can only conclude that you don't "get it".

Greg