I am saddened that the tone of 'debate' here on comp.dsp is now so often rude and bullying. This makes it no longer worthwhile to participate. It also probably inhibits new people from joining in, either because they fear being ridiculed or because they do not want to join a forum that accepts bullying and personal rudeness in place of reasoned debate. comp.dsp used to be interesting, entertaining, and often amusing. Occassional heated debate tended to focus on argument rather than attacking the person. 'Flaming' did happen but I thought we dealt with it in a mature way that made it clear that verbal bullying and personal attacks were not welcome, so it died out. That has changed. Novices are regularly attacked in a way that I think is bullying, and that is a shame because it probably puts such people off joining in. Debate over technical questions gets turned into attacking people's supposed lack of competence or qualifications instead of addressing the argument. All of this makes comp.dsp now an unpleasant place, and not one I wish to be associated with. I have taken part in discussions here over many years, and I thank all those of you who have provided interesting, entertaining, thought- provoking, and amusing discussions here. Those who I have met in person, I hope we meet again but it will not be in comp.dsp because I will not be participating again. I am very sad that what was such a good forum has fallen so far, but I hope to maintain the many personal contacts that I first made here. Chris ==================================== Chris Bore BORES Signal Processing www.bores.com
Why it is no longer worth taking part in comp.dsp
Started by ●January 25, 2011
Reply by ●January 25, 20112011-01-25
On Jan 25, 4:22�am, Chris Bore <chris.b...@gmail.com> wrote:> I am saddened that the tone of 'debate' here on comp.dsp is now so > often rude and bullying. > > This makes it no longer worthwhile to participate. It also probably > inhibits new people from joining in, either because they fear being > ridiculed or because they do not want to join a forum that accepts > bullying and personal rudeness in place of reasoned debate. > > comp.dsp used to be interesting, entertaining, and often amusing. > Occassional heated debate tended to focus on argument rather than > attacking the person. 'Flaming' did happen but I thought we dealt with > it in a mature way that made it clear that verbal bullying and > personal attacks were not welcome, so it died out. That has changed. > Novices are regularly attacked in a way that I think is bullying, and > that is a shame because it probably puts such people off joining in. > Debate over technical questions gets turned into attacking people's > supposed lack of competence or qualifications instead of addressing > the argument. All of this makes comp.dsp now an unpleasant place, and > not one I wish to be associated with. > > I have taken part in discussions here over many years, and I thank all > those of you who have provided interesting, entertaining, thought- > provoking, and amusing discussions here. Those who I have met in > person, I hope we meet again but it will not be in comp.dsp because I > will not be participating again. I am very sad that what was such a > good forum has fallen so far, but I hope to maintain the many personal > contacts that I first made here. > > Chris > ==================================== > Chris Bore > BORES Signal Processingwww.bores.comYou are in a difficult position because your name and business and business reputation is attached to your postings here. If this is a business decision on your part then I certainly understand. If it is not a business decision then I would ask you to reconsider. You have clearly convinced the world that you are not some kind of bird parroting around information. I suspect that you, more than anyone on this forum has to field questions from all directions from highly skilled engineers and you have clearly not alienated your customer base due to your stupidity or inability to explain basic DSP concepts. Rune has developed a some kind of sonar detector that got an incredible 12 dB improvement in what was available at that time, and yet could not convince anyone to look at his idea. I find this to be incredible. If a 10 year old kid in a diaper approached me with such a claim I would have given him some time to explain what he was talking about (the benefit is so great), and yet Rune could not get anyone to let him pursue this. This is not necessarily a statement of how idiotic the people working with Rune were, this might be a proof that some people he worked with thought he was a bullshitter. Who knows.
Reply by ●January 25, 20112011-01-25
Chris Bore wrote:> > I am saddened that the tone of 'debate' here on comp.dsp is now so > often rude and bullying. > > This makes it no longer worthwhile to participate. It also probably > inhibits new people from joining in, either because they fear being > ridiculed or because they do not want to join a forum that accepts > bullying and personal rudeness in place of reasoned debate.I wouldn't take it so personal. From my casual reading of your exchange with Rune He came out of it looking like dick-head And you appeared to be reasonable. So that explains why he's all bent out of shape, but what reason do you have to be angry? -jim> > comp.dsp used to be interesting, entertaining, and often amusing. > Occassional heated debate tended to focus on argument rather than > attacking the person. 'Flaming' did happen but I thought we dealt with > it in a mature way that made it clear that verbal bullying and > personal attacks were not welcome, so it died out. That has changed. > Novices are regularly attacked in a way that I think is bullying, and > that is a shame because it probably puts such people off joining in. > Debate over technical questions gets turned into attacking people's > supposed lack of competence or qualifications instead of addressing > the argument. All of this makes comp.dsp now an unpleasant place, and > not one I wish to be associated with. > > I have taken part in discussions here over many years, and I thank all > those of you who have provided interesting, entertaining, thought- > provoking, and amusing discussions here. Those who I have met in > person, I hope we meet again but it will not be in comp.dsp because I > will not be participating again. I am very sad that what was such a > good forum has fallen so far, but I hope to maintain the many personal > contacts that I first made here. > > Chris > ==================================== > Chris Bore > BORES Signal Processing > www.bores.com
Reply by ●January 25, 20112011-01-25
On Jan 25, 4:22�am, Chris Bore <chris.b...@gmail.com> wrote:> I am saddened that the tone of 'debate' here on comp.dsp is now so > often rude and bullying. > > This makes it no longer worthwhile to participate. It also probably > inhibits new people from joining in, either because they fear being > ridiculed or because they do not want to join a forum that accepts > bullying and personal rudeness in place of reasoned debate. > > comp.dsp used to be interesting, entertaining, and often amusing. > Occassional heated debate tended to focus on argument rather than > attacking the person. 'Flaming' did happen but I thought we dealt with > it in a mature way that made it clear that verbal bullying and > personal attacks were not welcome, so it died out. That has changed. > Novices are regularly attacked in a way that I think is bullying, and > that is a shame because it probably puts such people off joining in. > Debate over technical questions gets turned into attacking people's > supposed lack of competence or qualifications instead of addressing > the argument. All of this makes comp.dsp now an unpleasant place, and > not one I wish to be associated with. > > I have taken part in discussions here over many years, and I thank all > those of you who have provided interesting, entertaining, thought- > provoking, and amusing discussions here. Those who I have met in > person, I hope we meet again but it will not be in comp.dsp because I > will not be participating again. I am very sad that what was such a > good forum has fallen so far, but I hope to maintain the many personal > contacts that I first made here. > > Chris > ==================================== > Chris Bore > BORES Signal Processingwww.bores.comChris, I do hope you reconsider. Your inputs are important. And your no longer being here would mean the average of the remaining is lowered. Clay
Reply by ●January 25, 20112011-01-25
On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 01:22:25 -0800 (PST), Chris Bore <chris.bore@gmail.com> wrote:>I am saddened that the tone of 'debate' here on comp.dsp is now so >often rude and bullying. > >This makes it no longer worthwhile to participate. It also probably >inhibits new people from joining in, either because they fear being >ridiculed or because they do not want to join a forum that accepts >bullying and personal rudeness in place of reasoned debate. > >comp.dsp used to be interesting, entertaining, and often amusing. >Occassional heated debate tended to focus on argument rather than >attacking the person. 'Flaming' did happen but I thought we dealt with >it in a mature way that made it clear that verbal bullying and >personal attacks were not welcome, so it died out. That has changed. >Novices are regularly attacked in a way that I think is bullying, and >that is a shame because it probably puts such people off joining in. >Debate over technical questions gets turned into attacking people's >supposed lack of competence or qualifications instead of addressing >the argument. All of this makes comp.dsp now an unpleasant place, and >not one I wish to be associated with. > >I have taken part in discussions here over many years, and I thank all >those of you who have provided interesting, entertaining, thought- >provoking, and amusing discussions here. Those who I have met in >person, I hope we meet again but it will not be in comp.dsp because I >will not be participating again. I am very sad that what was such a >good forum has fallen so far, but I hope to maintain the many personal >contacts that I first made here. > >Chris >==================================== >Chris Bore >BORES Signal Processing >www.bores.comChris, I share your concerns, and I suspect you're not talking about any one individual. There's been an unfortunate trend here, or maybe we're just more sensitive to it as we get older, I don't know. I'll echo the others in that I hope you reconsider. The internet in general is a pretty rude place, and in my experience requires being able to ignore a lot of things that wouldn't be acceptable in normal social situations. That doesn't excuse anybody, and it doesn't mean there's not a growing problem here, but I'm hoping it moves the bar far enough that people like you find it easier to stay. If you do go you will be missed by me and many others. I hope you find a way to hang around, or come back after a little while or something. Eric Jacobsen Minister of Algorithms Abineau Communications http://www.abineau.com
Reply by ●January 25, 20112011-01-25
Chris Bore wrote:> I am saddened that the tone of 'debate' here on comp.dsp is now so > often rude and bullying.I am saddened that the debate here in comp.dsp is so clueless, trivial and revolving many times around the same basic problems. The meaningless discussion about FFT happened at least four times in my memory. The participants and their argumentation was all the same; and everyone retained their opinion. Same with many other subjects.> This makes it no longer worthwhile to participate. It also probably > inhibits new people from joining in, either because they fear being > ridiculed or because they do not want to join a forum that accepts > bullying and personal rudeness in place of reasoned debate.There is a lot of good places where the old farts can preach trivial things to the younger generation of fools. Just for instance: msn.school.kids.homework.help alt.idiot.richard.the.stupid alt.dunderheaded.dolts> comp.dsp used to be interesting, entertaining, and often amusing. > Occassional heated debate tended to focus on argument rather than > attacking the person. 'Flaming' did happen but I thought we dealt with > it in a mature way that made it clear that verbal bullying and > personal attacks were not welcome, so it died out. That has changed.Rune is right. Idle talks and bla-bla-bla is neither interesting nor a scientific argument.> Novices are regularly attacked in a way that I think is bullying, and > that is a shame because it probably puts such people off joining in. > Debate over technical questions gets turned into attacking people's > supposed lack of competence or qualifications instead of addressing > the argument. All of this makes comp.dsp now an unpleasant place, and > not one I wish to be associated with. > > I have taken part in discussions here over many years, and I thank all > those of you who have provided interesting, entertaining, thought- > provoking, and amusing discussions here. Those who I have met in > person, I hope we meet again but it will not be in comp.dsp because I > will not be participating again. I am very sad that what was such a > good forum has fallen so far, but I hope to maintain the many personal > contacts that I first made here.Good bye and why would anyone care. Get out and quickly, do not hold. It's been a long while since you yourself posted anything interesting, new or entertaining. Vladimir Vassilevsky DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant http://www.abvolt.com
Reply by ●January 25, 20112011-01-25
On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 14:36:48 -0600, Vladimir Vassilevsky <nospam@nowhere.com> wrote:>Good bye and why would anyone care. Get out and quickly, do not hold. >It's been a long while since you yourself posted anything interesting, >new or entertaining. > >Vladimir Vassilevsky >DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant >http://www.abvolt.comI see this as identifying part of the problem. Eric Jacobsen Minister of Algorithms Abineau Communications http://www.abineau.com
Reply by ●January 25, 20112011-01-25
On 01/25/2011 04:22 AM, Chris Bore wrote:> I am saddened that the tone of 'debate' here on comp.dsp is now so > often rude and bullying. > > This makes it no longer worthwhile to participate. It also probably > inhibits new people from joining in, either because they fear being > ridiculed or because they do not want to join a forum that accepts > bullying and personal rudeness in place of reasoned debate. > > comp.dsp used to be interesting, entertaining, and often amusing. > Occassional heated debate tended to focus on argument rather than > attacking the person. 'Flaming' did happen but I thought we dealt with > it in a mature way that made it clear that verbal bullying and > personal attacks were not welcome, so it died out. That has changed. > Novices are regularly attacked in a way that I think is bullying, and > that is a shame because it probably puts such people off joining in. > Debate over technical questions gets turned into attacking people's > supposed lack of competence or qualifications instead of addressing > the argument. All of this makes comp.dsp now an unpleasant place, and > not one I wish to be associated with. > > I have taken part in discussions here over many years, and I thank all > those of you who have provided interesting, entertaining, thought- > provoking, and amusing discussions here. Those who I have met in > person, I hope we meet again but it will not be in comp.dsp because I > will not be participating again. I am very sad that what was such a > good forum has fallen so far, but I hope to maintain the many personal > contacts that I first made here.I've always enjoyed seeing your posts, Chris, and our one-time meeting (along with Rick and several others, I believe at an old DSPWorld conference) some decade ago was delightful. I am sorry you're leaving. --Randy> > Chris > ==================================== > Chris Bore > BORES Signal Processing > www.bores.com-- Randy Yates % "My Shangri-la has gone away, fading like Digital Signal Labs % the Beatles on 'Hey Jude'" yates@digitalsignallabs.com % http://www.digitalsignallabs.com % 'Shangri-La', *A New World Record*, ELO
Reply by ●January 25, 20112011-01-25
Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:> > There is a lot of good places where the old farts can preach trivial > things to the younger generation of fools. Just for instance: > > msn.school.kids.homework.help > alt.idiot.richard.the.stupid > alt.dunderheaded.dolts*LOL*
Reply by ●January 26, 20112011-01-26
On Jan 25, 2:37�pm, brent <buleg...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:> �I suspect that you, more than anyone on > this forum has to field questions from all directions from highly > skilled engineers and you have clearly not alienated your customer > base due to your stupidity or inability to explain basic DSP > concepts.The problem with such a view is that part of Chris' customer base is people who for some reason or another want to learn DSP, without taking the classes needed. That presents several problems, mine being that I occasionally have to interact with 'graduates' from such 'classes'. I have found that it is far better for me to handle total novices who are aware that they are layfolk. Once de facto layfolk start believeing they understand something they in fact don't, there is serious trouble ahead. So yes, you are right. Chris *should* worry about his livelihood. But no, he should not balme it on me. He should think carefully through what he is doing: Is he *really* educating people, as he seems to believe? Or does he merely peddle course credits?>�This is not necessarily a statement of > how idiotic the people working with Rune were, this might be a proof > that some people he worked with thought he was a bullshitter. �Who > knows.Certainly not people who are unable to make heads or tails of as simple a concept as the FT. Rune
