"Bob Masta" wrote in message news:4d74e322.1053728@news.eternal-september.org... On Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:12:38 -0500, "Tom Biasi" <tombiasi@optonline.net> wrote:> > >"Bob Masta" wrote in message >news:4d739750.969846@news.eternal-september.org... > >On Sun, 6 Mar 2011 13:18:14 +0800, "Tom Potter" ><tdp1001@yahoo.com> wrote: > ><snip> > >>For example, during WWII, >>the Germans trained pigeons to peck >>at a"joystick" to center aerial pictures of places in London, >>with the intension of using the pigeons as >>control mechanisms for rocket bombs. > >Do you have a citation for this? To the best of my >knowlege, the pigeon-as-guidance system was devised by B.F >Skinner in the USA. It was never deployed. (I can imagine >that no matter how well it might have worked, there would >have been a natural reluctance to entrust bomb targeting to >birds. Nobody in authority would have wanted to risk the >consequences to his career in event of a fiasco.) > >Best regards, > > >Bob Masta >>Just more folklore Bob, just like the RAF eating bilberries for better >night >vision. >If I'm wrong show me and I will apologize. >Not sure which you are referring to as folklore. I have found nothing regarding a German program, so that doesn't seem to have made the cut as folklore. The Skinner program is well known. Since he was such a famous (infamous?) scientist, whose later work in behaviorism made him the target of every wing nut in Congress, I expect that this part of his history has been pretty well scrutinized by now. Best regards, Bob Masta It's mentioned quite a lot, here is one article. http://books.google.com/books?id=C9NtR6t4NBYC&pg=PA36&lpg=PA36&dq=the+Germans+trained+pigeons+to&source=bl&ots=8ZCSgOfaog&sig=8abOEgpjtKm4DlUUfNVhrUQQ-Ic&hl=en&ei=sg52Tb2XDsTJgQf11KHDBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&sqi=2&ved=0CEcQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=the%20Germans%20trained%20pigeons%20to&f=false Tom
Transducer Directly Outputs Something Halfway Between Displacement & Velocity
Started by ●March 4, 2011
Reply by ●March 8, 20112011-03-08
Reply by ●March 8, 20112011-03-08
On Tue, 8 Mar 2011 06:14:12 -0500, "Tom Biasi" <tombiasi@optonline.net> wrote:> > >"Bob Masta" wrote in message >news:4d74e322.1053728@news.eternal-september.org... > >On Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:12:38 -0500, "Tom Biasi" ><tombiasi@optonline.net> wrote: > >> >> >>"Bob Masta" wrote in message >>news:4d739750.969846@news.eternal-september.org... >> >>On Sun, 6 Mar 2011 13:18:14 +0800, "Tom Potter" >><tdp1001@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >><snip> >> >>>For example, during WWII, >>>the Germans trained pigeons to peck >>>at a"joystick" to center aerial pictures of places in London, >>>with the intension of using the pigeons as >>>control mechanisms for rocket bombs. >> >>Do you have a citation for this? To the best of my >>knowlege, the pigeon-as-guidance system was devised by B.F >>Skinner in the USA. It was never deployed. (I can imagine >>that no matter how well it might have worked, there would >>have been a natural reluctance to entrust bomb targeting to >>birds. Nobody in authority would have wanted to risk the >>consequences to his career in event of a fiasco.) >> >>Best regards, >> >> >>Bob Masta >> > >>Just more folklore Bob, just like the RAF eating bilberries for better >>night >>vision. >>If I'm wrong show me and I will apologize. >> > >Not sure which you are referring to as folklore. I have >found nothing regarding a German program, so that doesn't >seem to have made the cut as folklore. The Skinner program >is well known. Since he was such a famous (infamous?) >scientist, whose later work in behaviorism made him the >target of every wing nut in Congress, I expect that this >part of his history has been pretty well scrutinized by now. > >Best regards, > > >Bob Masta > >It's mentioned quite a lot, here is one article. > >http://books.google.com/books?id=C9NtR6t4NBYC&pg=PA36&lpg=PA36&dq=the+Germans+trained+pigeons+to&source=bl&ots=8ZCSgOfaog&sig=8abOEgpjtKm4DlUUfNVhrUQQ-Ic&hl=en&ei=sg52Tb2XDsTJgQf11KHDBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&sqi=2&ved=0CEcQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=the%20Germans%20trained%20pigeons%20to&f=false > >Tom >I couldn't find anything in that reference about *Germans* training pigeons to guide bombs or missiles, but on page 37 there is a mention of the B.F. Skinner program... he was definitely not working for the Germans! Best regards, Bob Masta DAQARTA v6.00 Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis www.daqarta.com Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, Sound Level Meter Frequency Counter, FREE Signal Generator Pitch Track, Pitch-to-MIDI Science with your sound card!
Reply by ●March 8, 20112011-03-08
"Bob Masta" wrote in message news:4d762dc3.1455121@news.eternal-september.org... On Tue, 8 Mar 2011 06:14:12 -0500, "Tom Biasi" <tombiasi@optonline.net> wrote:> > >"Bob Masta" wrote in message >news:4d74e322.1053728@news.eternal-september.org... > >On Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:12:38 -0500, "Tom Biasi" ><tombiasi@optonline.net> wrote: > >> >> >>"Bob Masta" wrote in message >>news:4d739750.969846@news.eternal-september.org... >> >>On Sun, 6 Mar 2011 13:18:14 +0800, "Tom Potter" >><tdp1001@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >><snip> >> >>>For example, during WWII, >>>the Germans trained pigeons to peck >>>at a"joystick" to center aerial pictures of places in London, >>>with the intension of using the pigeons as >>>control mechanisms for rocket bombs. >> >>Do you have a citation for this? To the best of my >>knowlege, the pigeon-as-guidance system was devised by B.F >>Skinner in the USA. It was never deployed. (I can imagine >>that no matter how well it might have worked, there would >>have been a natural reluctance to entrust bomb targeting to >>birds. Nobody in authority would have wanted to risk the >>consequences to his career in event of a fiasco.) >> >>Best regards, >> >> >>Bob Masta >> > >>Just more folklore Bob, just like the RAF eating bilberries for better >>night >>vision. >>If I'm wrong show me and I will apologize. >> > >Not sure which you are referring to as folklore. I have >found nothing regarding a German program, so that doesn't >seem to have made the cut as folklore. The Skinner program >is well known. Since he was such a famous (infamous?) >scientist, whose later work in behaviorism made him the >target of every wing nut in Congress, I expect that this >part of his history has been pretty well scrutinized by now. > >Best regards, > > >Bob Masta > >It's mentioned quite a lot, here is one article. > >http://books.google.com/books?id=C9NtR6t4NBYC&pg=PA36&lpg=PA36&dq=the+Germans+trained+pigeons+to&source=bl&ots=8ZCSgOfaog&sig=8abOEgpjtKm4DlUUfNVhrUQQ-Ic&hl=en&ei=sg52Tb2XDsTJgQf11KHDBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&sqi=2&ved=0CEcQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=the%20Germans%20trained%20pigeons%20to&f=false > >Tom >I couldn't find anything in that reference about *Germans* training pigeons to guide bombs or missiles, but on page 37 there is a mention of the B.F. Skinner program... he was definitely not working for the Germans! Best regards, Bob Masta I'm not sure what part if any the Germans played in this but BF was involved. The idea really existed but was not actually done in practice. Tom
Reply by ●March 9, 20112011-03-09
"Bob Masta" <N0Spam@daqarta.com> wrote in message news:4d739750.969846@news.eternal-september.org...> On Sun, 6 Mar 2011 13:18:14 +0800, "Tom Potter" > <tdp1001@yahoo.com> wrote: > > <snip> > >>For example, during WWII, >>the Germans trained pigeons to peck >>at a"joystick" to center aerial pictures of places in London, >>with the intension of using the pigeons as >>control mechanisms for rocket bombs. > > Do you have a citation for this? To the best of my > knowlege, the pigeon-as-guidance system was devised by B.F > Skinner in the USA. It was never deployed. (I can imagine > that no matter how well it might have worked, there would > have been a natural reluctance to entrust bomb targeting to > birds. Nobody in authority would have wanted to risk the > consequences to his career in event of a fiasco.) > > Best regards, > > > Bob MastaI have a distinct memory about reading an article in a controls magazine about 1960, about Germany's missile program that covered control systems in the missiles, magnetic amplifiers, the "pigeon control idea", etc. but I could find no reference to Germany's experiments with using pigeon's to control the V1's and V2's, so I must have a glitch in my memory, or as the saying goes "History is written by the victors." and as I say "History is re written by people motivate by race and religion." And considering that in the minds of the masses history is what is fed to them by the Mass Media, and by Google hits, and considering that Google has a race/religion bias and "cooks the books" and feeds you what they want you to see, and hides what they don't want you to see, and censors folks who express facts and opinions that Google does not want the public exposed to, I suggest that folks interested in facts, should NEVER click on "I'm feeling lucky." Which is Google's way of determining when they have a mind under their control. -- Tom Potter ----------------- http://www.prioritize.biz/ http://voices.yuku.com/forums/66 http://tdp1001.wiki.zoho.com/siteindex.zhtml http://xrl.in/63g4 http://www.tompotter.us http://tdp1001.wiki.zoho.com
Reply by ●March 9, 20112011-03-09
Reply by ●March 9, 20112011-03-09
I doubt that Antarctic waters conform to this overall acidification; tons of gravel-flour are scoured by the glaciers.
Reply by ●March 10, 20112011-03-10
On 03/04/2011 06:44 PM, Bret Cahill wrote:> This particular output is already possible -- the units would be meter/ > second^1/2 -- simply by taking the -1/2 order derivative of a > speedometer or by taking the +1/2 order derivative of the output of a > displacement transducer. > > The question here is, can you build a transducer that outputs this > quantity directly? > > A half-way-between-charge-and-current sensor may also be possible. > > Supposing partial transducers turned out to be cheaper, had better > linearity or were enough smaller so that it was cost effective to > replace conventional sensors with even with the additional necessary > step of taking fractional derivatives or fractional anti-derivatives?Like a watt meter?
Reply by ●March 12, 20112011-03-12
"Sam Wormley" <swormley1@gmail.com> wrote in message news:P9OdnYHwt7zLC-rQnZ2dnUVZ_h2dnZ2d@mchsi.com...> On 3/9/11 1:17 AM, Tom Potter wrote: >> >> I must have a glitch in my memory...Thanks to my pal Sammy for pointing out that I am honest and forthright. -- Tom Potter ----------------- http://www.prioritize.biz/ http://voices.yuku.com/forums/66 http://tdp1001.wiki.zoho.com/siteindex.zhtml http://xrl.in/63g4 http://www.tompotter.us http://tdp1001.wiki.zoho.com
Reply by ●March 12, 20112011-03-12
On 3/12/11 2:06 AM, Tom Potter wrote:> > "Sam Wormley" <swormley1@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:P9OdnYHwt7zLC-rQnZ2dnUVZ_h2dnZ2d@mchsi.com... >> On 3/9/11 1:17 AM, Tom Potter wrote: >>> >>> I must have a glitch in my memory... > > Thanks to my pal Sammy for pointing out that I am honest and forthright. >I doubt that your Pappy would agree, Potter.
Reply by ●March 13, 20112011-03-13
"Sam Wormley" <swormley1@gmail.com> wrote in message news:teidncGy759tHubQnZ2dnUVZ_hoAAAAA@mchsi.com...> On 3/12/11 2:06 AM, Tom Potter wrote: >> >> "Sam Wormley" <swormley1@gmail.com> wrote in message >> news:P9OdnYHwt7zLC-rQnZ2dnUVZ_h2dnZ2d@mchsi.com... >>> On 3/9/11 1:17 AM, Tom Potter wrote: >>>> >>>> I must have a glitch in my memory... >> >> Thanks to my pal Sammy for pointing out that I am honest and forthright. > > I doubt that your Pappy would agree, Potter.It appear to me that my pal Sam Wormley is suggesting that he has no "glitches" in his memory, and I trust that he will explain why, when I first posted many years ago that General Relativity was a "Tower of Babel" that he confused the ""Tower of Babel" with the "Towers of Hanoi". Was that a "glitch" in Sammy's memory, or was he ignorant of the "Tower of Babel"? Maybe Sammy will explain. -- Tom Potter ----------------- http://www.prioritize.biz/ http://voices.yuku.com/forums/66 http://tdp1001.wiki.zoho.com/siteindex.zhtml http://xrl.in/63g4 http://www.tompotter.us http://tdp1001.wiki.zoho.com
