Hi, Please suggest some good references for the Math involved in Direct Covnersion Receivers. I am interested in Math and not circuitry. Thanks
Suggest good references to understand the Math of Direct Coversion Receivers
Started by ●May 31, 2011
Reply by ●May 31, 20112011-05-31
On 05/31/2011 09:18 AM, johnlovestohate wrote:> Hi, > Please suggest some good references for the Math involved in Direct > Covnersion Receivers. I am interested in Math and not circuitry.What's your math background so far? Any basic Signals & Systems book should have the math you need. Get a copy of the ARRL handbook for a discussion of the math as it pertains specifically to DC receivers. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com Do you need to implement control loops in software? "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you. See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html
Reply by ●May 31, 20112011-05-31
Tim Wescott wrote:> On 05/31/2011 09:18 AM, johnlovestohate wrote: >> Hi, >> Please suggest some good references for the Math involved in Direct >> Covnersion Receivers. I am interested in Math and not circuitry. > > What's your math background so far? Any basic Signals & Systems book > should have the math you need. Get a copy of the ARRL handbook for a > discussion of the math as it pertains specifically to DC receivers. >A good next step will be Rick Lyons' book. -- Tauno Voipio, OH2UG
Reply by ●May 31, 20112011-05-31
On Tue, 31 May 2011 11:18:15 -0500, "johnlovestohate" <aliatolemiss@n_o_s_p_a_m.gmail.com> wrote:>Hi, >Please suggest some good references for the Math involved in Direct >Covnersion Receivers. I am interested in Math and not circuitry. > >ThanksAs a struggling student I have found the section in the recent ARRL Radio Amateur's Handbook to be the easiest to grasp.
Reply by ●May 31, 20112011-05-31
On May 31, 2:19�pm, Tauno Voipio <tauno.voi...@notused.fi.invalid> wrote:> Tim Wescott wrote: > > On 05/31/2011 09:18 AM, johnlovestohate wrote: > >> Hi, > >> Please suggest some good references for the Math involved in Direct > >> Covnersion Receivers. I am interested in Math and not circuitry. > > > What's your math background so far? �Any basic Signals & Systems book > > should have the math you need. �Get a copy of the ARRL handbook for a > > discussion of the math as it pertains specifically to DC receivers. > > A good next step will be Rick Lyons' book. >duh, whatsa direct conversion receiver? r b-j
Reply by ●June 1, 20112011-06-01
On 05/31/2011 10:45 PM, robert bristow-johnson wrote:> On May 31, 2:19 pm, Tauno Voipio<tauno.voi...@notused.fi.invalid> > wrote: >> Tim Wescott wrote: >>> On 05/31/2011 09:18 AM, johnlovestohate wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> Please suggest some good references for the Math involved in Direct >>>> Covnersion Receivers. I am interested in Math and not circuitry. >> >>> What's your math background so far? Any basic Signals& Systems book >>> should have the math you need. Get a copy of the ARRL handbook for a >>> discussion of the math as it pertains specifically to DC receivers. >> >> A good next step will be Rick Lyons' book. >> > > duh, whatsa direct conversion receiver?I think that's a position/play often used by teams in the NFL... -- Randy Yates % "Watching all the days go by... Digital Signal Labs % Who are you and who am I?" mailto://yates@ieee.org % 'Mission (A World Record)', http://www.digitalsignallabs.com % *A New World Record*, ELO
Reply by ●June 1, 20112011-06-01
On 05/31/2011 11:02 PM, Randy Yates wrote:> On 05/31/2011 10:45 PM, robert bristow-johnson wrote: >> On May 31, 2:19 pm, Tauno Voipio<tauno.voi...@notused.fi.invalid> >> wrote: >>> Tim Wescott wrote: >>>> On 05/31/2011 09:18 AM, johnlovestohate wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> Please suggest some good references for the Math involved in Direct >>>>> Covnersion Receivers. I am interested in Math and not circuitry. >>> >>>> What's your math background so far? Any basic Signals& Systems book >>>> should have the math you need. Get a copy of the ARRL handbook for a >>>> discussion of the math as it pertains specifically to DC receivers. >>> >>> A good next step will be Rick Lyons' book. >>> >> >> duh, whatsa direct conversion receiver? > > I think that's a position/play often used by teams in the NFL...But seriously, folks.. It's a receiver that goes from RF to baseband in one swell foop, i.e., without an intervening IF stage. -- Randy Yates % "Watching all the days go by... Digital Signal Labs % Who are you and who am I?" mailto://yates@ieee.org % 'Mission (A World Record)', http://www.digitalsignallabs.com % *A New World Record*, ELO
Reply by ●June 1, 20112011-06-01
On 05/31/2011 07:45 PM, robert bristow-johnson wrote:> On May 31, 2:19 pm, Tauno Voipio<tauno.voi...@notused.fi.invalid> > wrote: >> Tim Wescott wrote: >>> On 05/31/2011 09:18 AM, johnlovestohate wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> Please suggest some good references for the Math involved in Direct >>>> Covnersion Receivers. I am interested in Math and not circuitry. >> >>> What's your math background so far? Any basic Signals& Systems book >>> should have the math you need. Get a copy of the ARRL handbook for a >>> discussion of the math as it pertains specifically to DC receivers. >> >> A good next step will be Rick Lyons' book. >> > > duh, whatsa direct conversion receiver?It's a receiver that multiplies the desired signal by sine and cosine waves at the carrier frequency, to bring the signal all the way down to baseband. In amateur radio usage it often just multiplies by the sine wave, to receive single sideband. AKA "I/Q downconversion", "downconvert to baseband", etc. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com Do you need to implement control loops in software? "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you. See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html
Reply by ●June 1, 20112011-06-01
On May 31, 11:03�pm, Randy Yates <ya...@ieee.org> wrote:> On 05/31/2011 11:02 PM, Randy Yates wrote: > > > > > On 05/31/2011 10:45 PM, robert bristow-johnson wrote: > >> On May 31, 2:19 pm, Tauno Voipio<tauno.voi...@notused.fi.invalid> > >> wrote: > >>> Tim Wescott wrote: > >>>> On 05/31/2011 09:18 AM, johnlovestohate wrote: > >>>>> Hi, > >>>>> Please suggest some good references for the Math involved in Direct > >>>>> Covnersion Receivers. I am interested in Math and not circuitry. > > >>>> What's your math background so far? Any basic Signals& Systems book > >>>> should have the math you need. Get a copy of the ARRL handbook for a > >>>> discussion of the math as it pertains specifically to DC receivers. > > >>> A good next step will be Rick Lyons' book. > > >> duh, whatsa direct conversion receiver? > > > I think that's a position/play often used by teams in the NFL... > > But seriously, folks.. > > It's a receiver that goes from RF to baseband in one swell foop, > i.e., without an intervening IF stage.i thought maybe. but wanted to make sure. still more questions: is there any analog signal processing between the antenna terminals (or the transmission line from the antenna) and the A/D converter? is a broadband amplifier allowed in there? if yes, is there any compelling reason that this amplifier cannot be less broad banded? anyway, there is no reason why a lickity-split fast A/D and DSP can't tune and bump it down to an internal quadrature IF and demodulate from that. i am still not sure that it would be cost effective against bumping it down to a non-quadrature IF in the analog domain in a single tank circuit with the initial amplifier. about 45 years ago i had a short wave radio kit (from Knight-Kit, part of Allied Radio Electronics) called the "Star Roamer". it was a cheapie little kit that you could hook a simple long-wire antenna to. and the signal from the antenna went directly into the mixer that bumped it down to IF (455 kHz, IIRC). no RF amplifier and the tuning was strictly done by what made it through the IF tank circuit. i think there was a front-panel cap in parallel that was for antenna matching that you would have to twist. so maybe that would make it inconvenient in comparison to DC. now that i think about it, i dunno how that Star Roamer SW radio was able, without *any* RF filtering, to keep the components at 910 kHz below the frequency of interest from interfering with the negative- frequency IF bandpass. somehow, you would have to knock that out before mixing, no? (and, by "mixer", i mean the radio meaning, not the audio meaning.) confusedly, r b-j
Reply by ●June 1, 20112011-06-01
On Jun 1, 5:03�am, Randy Yates <ya...@ieee.org> wrote:> On 05/31/2011 11:02 PM, Randy Yates wrote: > > > > > > > On 05/31/2011 10:45 PM, robert bristow-johnson wrote: > >> On May 31, 2:19 pm, Tauno Voipio<tauno.voi...@notused.fi.invalid> > >> wrote: > >>> Tim Wescott wrote: > >>>> On 05/31/2011 09:18 AM, johnlovestohate wrote: > >>>>> Hi, > >>>>> Please suggest some good references for the Math involved in Direct > >>>>> Covnersion Receivers. I am interested in Math and not circuitry. > > >>>> What's your math background so far? Any basic Signals& Systems book > >>>> should have the math you need. Get a copy of the ARRL handbook for a > >>>> discussion of the math as it pertains specifically to DC receivers. > > >>> A good next step will be Rick Lyons' book. > > >> duh, whatsa direct conversion receiver? > > > I think that's a position/play often used by teams in the NFL... > > But seriously, folks.. > > It's a receiver that goes from RF to baseband in one swell foop, > i.e., without an intervening IF stage.Hmm... in that case, the question as stated by the OP is equivalent 'what is the math of physics'. As far as I can tell, any comms modulation scheme might be configured as BB <-> RF, with no intermediate IF steps. Now, it might not be *wise* to do this in each and every case, but it *can* be done. Mathematically, at least, if not always practically. So the OP essentially asks for a reference to all the math pertinent to comm recievers. Rune
