http://www.kuee.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~kitano/paper/slp2/slp2.pdf They appear to get an output before there is an input! Surely some mistake... Hardy
Negative Group Delay Circuit
Started by ●July 8, 2011
Reply by ●July 8, 20112011-07-08
HardySpicer wrote:> http://www.kuee.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~kitano/paper/slp2/slp2.pdf > > They appear to get an output before there is an input! Surely some > mistake...Unfortunately they found it had already been reported in last month's journal. ;) I once wasted an entire day trying to do that (back when I was 21 or so). These guys don't seem to have got the memo about causality. Love to see them build one that works. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 845-480-2058 email: hobbs (atsign) electrooptical (period) net http://electrooptical.net
Reply by ●July 8, 20112011-07-08
On Jul 8, 9:30�pm, HardySpicer <gyansor...@gmail.com> wrote:> http://www.kuee.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~kitano/paper/slp2/slp2.pdf > > They appear to get an output before there is an input! Surely some > mistake...No mistake. They really do appear to advance the signal. They don't actually advance it, but they do appear to. Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
Reply by ●July 8, 20112011-07-08
> HardySpicer wrote: >> http://www.kuee.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~kitano/paper/slp2/slp2.pdf >> >> They appear to get an output before there is an input! Surely some >> mistake... >>The real input is when the switch is closed. As the article itself points out, neither signal is actually delayed at all. Both appear as soon as the switch is closed. The apparent advancement of the output pulse arises because the observer is attaching an inappropriate significance to its shape. Now, you might think you could put a switch after the signal labelled input, and thereby achieve a reverse causality. But it wouldn't work as you expect. You'd see a discontinuity in the output signal that occurs at the time you open the switch, but not before. Sylvia.
Reply by ●July 8, 20112011-07-08
"HardySpicer" <gyansorova@gmail.com> wrote in message news:f66954fb-a6b5-4f36-9e4b-cc4140803426@x16g2000yqg.googlegroups.com... | http://www.kuee.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~kitano/paper/slp2/slp2.pdf | | They appear to get an output before there is an input! Surely some | mistake... | | | | Hardy OMG! Current leads voltage in a capacitor! Who'd a thunk it? Fig 7 shows a square wave input, but fig 8 is not square and therefore not the input as claimed. Fig. 6 has two resistors both labelled R1 and two capacitors both labelled C1, those guys must have had too much saki.
Reply by ●July 8, 20112011-07-08
On Fri, 08 Jul 2011 20:45:35 -0700, Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> wrote:>HardySpicer wrote: >> http://www.kuee.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~kitano/paper/slp2/slp2.pdf >> >> They appear to get an output before there is an input! Surely some >> mistake...I've read about something very similar, and it's not good: http://www.concatenation.org/futures/whatsexpected.pdf>> >> >> >> Hardy > >Things are causal >This I know >'Cause the Second tells me so...Why didn't I learn THAT one at age 5 in Sunday School?
Reply by ●July 9, 20112011-07-09
On Jul 8, 10:50�pm, Ben Bradley <ben_u_brad...@etcmail.com> wrote:> On Fri, 08 Jul 2011 20:45:35 -0700, Les Cargill >...> >Things are causal > >This I know > >'Cause the Second tells me so... > > � �Why didn't I learn THAT one at age 5 in Sunday School?:-)
Reply by ●July 9, 20112011-07-09
On Fri, 08 Jul 2011 21:34:26 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:>HardySpicer wrote: >> http://www.kuee.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~kitano/paper/slp2/slp2.pdf >> >> They appear to get an output before there is an input! Surely some >> mistake... > > >Unfortunately they found it had already been reported in last month's >journal. ;) > >I once wasted an entire day trying to do that (back when I was 21 or >so). These guys don't seem to have got the memo about causality. > >Love to see them build one that works. > >Cheers > >Phil Hobbshttp://www.edn.com/article/517407-Anticipator_circuit_speeds_signal_settling_to_a_final_value.php John
Reply by ●July 9, 20112011-07-09
On Jul 8, 10:50�pm, Ben Bradley <ben_u_brad...@etcmail.com> wrote:> On Fri, 08 Jul 2011 20:45:35 -0700, Les Cargill > > <lcargil...@comcast.com> wrote: > >HardySpicer wrote: > >>http://www.kuee.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~kitano/paper/slp2/slp2.pdf > > >> They appear to get an output before there is an input! Surely some > >> mistake... > > � �I've read about something very similar, and it's not good: > > http://www.concatenation.org/futures/whatsexpected.pdfThat's old hat. All it takes is a dollop of thiotimoline. (Google The Endochronic Properties of Thiotimoline et seq.) ...> � �Why didn't I learn THAT one at age 5 in Sunday School?Unless you're older than I guess, it was old hat then too. Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
Reply by ●July 9, 20112011-07-09
John Larkin wrote:> On Fri, 08 Jul 2011 21:34:26 -0400, Phil Hobbs > <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: > >> HardySpicer wrote: >>> http://www.kuee.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~kitano/paper/slp2/slp2.pdf >>> >>> They appear to get an output before there is an input! Surely some >>> mistake... >> >> >> Unfortunately they found it had already been reported in last month's >> journal. ;) >> >> I once wasted an entire day trying to do that (back when I was 21 or >> so). These guys don't seem to have got the memo about causality. >> >> Love to see them build one that works. >> >> Cheers >> >> Phil Hobbs > > > http://www.edn.com/article/517407-Anticipator_circuit_speeds_signal_settling_to_a_final_value.php > > > John >Okay, four months ago. Must be a better time machine than I thought. ;) (That's the one we ripped up here a few weeks ago, I remember--or is it just deja vu? Time machines are so confusing.) Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 845-480-2058 email: hobbs (atsign) electrooptical (period) net http://electrooptical.net
