On 10 Des, 20:35, HardySpicer <gyansor...@gmail.com> wrote:> On Dec 11, 4:22�am, Rune Allnor <all...@tele.ntnu.no> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi all. > > > These days the word 'rocket' is used to denote a flying > > missile, propelled by the rapid intrenal burning of some > > fuel, where the expelled exhaust gases provide the driving > > force. > > > Some 200years ago, Stephenson's first viable railroad > > locomotive, powered by a steam engine, was named > > 'The Rocket.' > > > So I am wondering if the term 'rocket' meant something > > else at that time? Or were rockets, in the presently > > accepted meaning of the term, known at the time? > > > Rune > > It's a kind of green used in salads.� Skjul sitert tekst � > > � Vis sitert tekst �Ah! So Stephenson used the name as PR directed towards grocery farmers, who would want to get their produce into town while it was still fresh! Rune
OT: What does 'rocket' mean?
Started by ●December 10, 2011
Reply by ●December 10, 20112011-12-10
Reply by ●December 10, 20112011-12-10
On 10/12/2011 18:20, Jerry Avins wrote: ..>> The OED has it from 1611 in English, to signify the firework. The word >> existed long before with other meanings (including the salad plant). >> Fireworks were of course brought back, along with the gunpowder they >> involved, from China and widely used, especially for grand celebrations >> (hence, G.F. Handel, "Music for the Royal Fireworks"). The alchemists >> probably got involved too, one way and another. According to the OED, >> the name "rocket" included squibs and other pyrotechnics, as well as >> rockets fired into the sky. The composer Stamitz (mid-18th Century) >> gained considerable fame composing symphonies for the orchestra at >> Mannheim including dramatic upward-rushing scale figures, popularly >> known thereafter as the "Mannheim Skyrocket". So we may surmise that the >> name was chosen by Stevenson as evoking an image of speed along with >> magic, shock and awe, plus no doubt the literal internal combustion >> aspect too. > > Tut tut, Richard! Stephenson's Rocket had a boiler, as I'm sureyou know. > > JerryWell yes, but it was burning ~something~, in a firebox, sort of internally...did you think I meant petrol? :-) Richard Dobson
Reply by ●December 10, 20112011-12-10
On 10/12/2011 19:35, HardySpicer wrote:>.. >> So I am wondering if the term 'rocket' meant something >> else at that time? Or were rockets, in the presently >> accepted meaning of the term, known at the time? >> >> Rune > > It's a kind of green used in salads.And quite strong/peppery in taste - sort of warming! Richard Dobson
Reply by ●December 10, 20112011-12-10
On 12/10/2011 3:21 PM, Richard Dobson wrote:> On 10/12/2011 18:20, Jerry Avins wrote: > .. >>> The OED has it from 1611 in English, to signify the firework. The word >>> existed long before with other meanings (including the salad plant). >>> Fireworks were of course brought back, along with the gunpowder they >>> involved, from China and widely used, especially for grand celebrations >>> (hence, G.F. Handel, "Music for the Royal Fireworks"). The alchemists >>> probably got involved too, one way and another. According to the OED, >>> the name "rocket" included squibs and other pyrotechnics, as well as >>> rockets fired into the sky. The composer Stamitz (mid-18th Century) >>> gained considerable fame composing symphonies for the orchestra at >>> Mannheim including dramatic upward-rushing scale figures, popularly >>> known thereafter as the "Mannheim Skyrocket". So we may surmise that the >>> name was chosen by Stevenson as evoking an image of speed along with >>> magic, shock and awe, plus no doubt the literal internal combustion >>> aspect too. >> >> Tut tut, Richard! Stephenson's Rocket had a boiler, as I'm sureyou know. >> >> Jerry > > Well yes, but it was burning ~something~, in a firebox, sort of > internally...did you think I meant petrol? :-)I knew you didn't mean that, but it is what you said. Otto and Diesel engines are called "internal combustion" engines because the combustion takes place in the working cylinder. I imagine jet engines are in the same category, but I've not heard them so called. "External combustion" describes most steam engines including turbines, and Stirling engines. Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. �����������������������������������������������������������������������
Reply by ●December 10, 20112011-12-10
On 12/10/2011 12:21 PM, Rune Allnor wrote:> On 10 Des, 20:35, HardySpicer<gyansor...@gmail.com> wrote: >> On Dec 11, 4:22 am, Rune Allnor<all...@tele.ntnu.no> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>> Hi all. >> >>> These days the word 'rocket' is used to denote a flying >>> missile, propelled by the rapid intrenal burning of some >>> fuel, where the expelled exhaust gases provide the driving >>> force. >> >>> Some 200years ago, Stephenson's first viable railroad >>> locomotive, powered by a steam engine, was named >>> 'The Rocket.' >> >>> So I am wondering if the term 'rocket' meant something >>> else at that time? Or were rockets, in the presently >>> accepted meaning of the term, known at the time? >> >>> Rune >>Lotta posts. Did anyone mention "rocket" as a verb? "Joe rocketed to the bar when he learned his girlfriend was there alone" rocketed past tense of: "rocket" meaning to move swiftly and powerfully, as a rocket. Fred
Reply by ●December 10, 20112011-12-10
Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> wrote: (snip)>> Well yes, but it was burning ~something~, in a firebox, sort of >> internally...did you think I meant petrol? :-)> I knew you didn't mean that, but it is what you said. Otto and Diesel > engines are called "internal combustion" engines because the combustion > takes place in the working cylinder. I imagine jet engines are in the > same category, but I've not heard them so called.I haven't thought about this for a while. I had thought that the distinction was that for internal combustion the oxygen supply is fixed before combustion starts. Maybe fuel, also. As combustion procedes, it does so at ever decreasing oxygen concentration.> "External combustion" describes most steam engines including > turbines, and Stirling engines.And also a continuous supply of fuel and oxidizer. That would seem to me to make them more similar to jet engines. (or the other way around.) -- glen
Reply by ●December 10, 20112011-12-10
On 12/10/2011 4:56 PM, glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:> Jerry Avins<jya@ieee.org> wrote: > > (snip) >>> Well yes, but it was burning ~something~, in a firebox, sort of >>> internally...did you think I meant petrol? :-) > >> I knew you didn't mean that, but it is what you said. Otto and Diesel >> engines are called "internal combustion" engines because the combustion >> takes place in the working cylinder. I imagine jet engines are in the >> same category, but I've not heard them so called. > > I haven't thought about this for a while. I had thought that the > distinction was that for internal combustion the oxygen supply is > fixed before combustion starts. Maybe fuel, also. As combustion > procedes, it does so at ever decreasing oxygen concentration. > >> "External combustion" describes most steam engines including >> turbines, and Stirling engines. > > And also a continuous supply of fuel and oxidizer. That would seem > to me to make them more similar to jet engines. (or the other > way around.)Wouldn't "continuous combustion" be a more apt description then? Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. �����������������������������������������������������������������������
Reply by ●December 11, 20112011-12-11
On 11 Des, 04:40, Jerry Avins <j...@ieee.org> wrote:> On 12/10/2011 4:56 PM, glen herrmannsfeldt wrote: > > > > > > > Jerry Avins<j...@ieee.org> �wrote: > > > (snip) > >>> Well yes, but it was burning ~something~, in a firebox, sort of > >>> internally...did you think I meant petrol? :-) > > >> I knew you didn't mean that, but it is what you said. Otto and Diesel > >> engines are called "internal combustion" engines because the combustion > >> takes place in the working cylinder. I imagine jet engines are in the > >> same category, but I've not heard them so called. > > > I haven't thought about this for a while. �I had thought that the > > distinction was that for internal combustion the oxygen supply is > > fixed before combustion starts. �Maybe fuel, also. �As combustion > > procedes, it does so at ever decreasing oxygen concentration. > > >> "External combustion" �describes most steam engines including > >> turbines, and Stirling engines. > > > And also a continuous supply of fuel and oxidizer. �That would seem > > to me to make them more similar to jet engines. (or the other > > way around.) > > Wouldn't "continuous combustion" be a more apt description then?For what? Both the biler in a steam engine and the combustion chamber of a jet engine would classify as 'continuous'. But the steam engine uses external combustion (the furnace (?) is external to the pressure chamber - pistons) while the jet engine combustion is internal - it generates the pressure that drives the rear fan. Rune
Reply by ●December 11, 20112011-12-11
On 11/12/2011 04:40, Rune Allnor wrote: ..>> Wouldn't "continuous combustion" be a more apt description then? > > For what? Both the biler in a steam engine and the > combustion chamber of a jet engine would classify > as 'continuous'. But the steam engine uses external > combustion (the furnace (?) is external to the > pressure chamber - pistons) while the jet engine > combustion is internal - it generates the pressure > that drives the rear fan. > > RuneThe thing is, "internal combustion" has a nice ring to it (it is also a good description of a curry (or a description of a good curry), btw). That makes it viable as a metaphor. At least I didn't call the thing a "quantum leap". But one cannot always predict what will lead to a cool discussion! Richard Dobson
Reply by ●December 11, 20112011-12-11
On 12/10/2011 11:40 PM, Rune Allnor wrote:> On 11 Des, 04:40, Jerry Avins<j...@ieee.org> wrote: >> On 12/10/2011 4:56 PM, glen herrmannsfeldt wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>> Jerry Avins<j...@ieee.org> wrote: >> >>> (snip) >>>>> Well yes, but it was burning ~something~, in a firebox, sort of >>>>> internally...did you think I meant petrol? :-) >> >>>> I knew you didn't mean that, but it is what you said. Otto and Diesel >>>> engines are called "internal combustion" engines because the combustion >>>> takes place in the working cylinder. I imagine jet engines are in the >>>> same category, but I've not heard them so called. >> >>> I haven't thought about this for a while. I had thought that the >>> distinction was that for internal combustion the oxygen supply is >>> fixed before combustion starts. Maybe fuel, also. As combustion >>> procedes, it does so at ever decreasing oxygen concentration. >> >>>> "External combustion" describes most steam engines including >>>> turbines, and Stirling engines. >> >>> And also a continuous supply of fuel and oxidizer. That would seem >>> to me to make them more similar to jet engines. (or the other >>> way around.) >> >> Wouldn't "continuous combustion" be a more apt description then? > > For what? Both the biler in a steam engine and the > combustion chamber of a jet engine would classify > as 'continuous'. But the steam engine uses external > combustion (the furnace (?) is external to the > pressure chamber - pistons) while the jet engine > combustion is internal - it generates the pressure > that drives the rear fan.Internal or external combustion is one division, while continuous or intermittent combustion is another. As far as I know, all external combustion engines are continuous, while internal combustion can be either. Typical jet engines -- Brayton cycle and ramjet -- are internal-continuous, but pulse jets are internal-intermittent, like Diesel and Otto engines. If we try, we could probably invent more classifications, but I'm content to stop here. Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. �����������������������������������������������������������������������
