Just a heads-up / warning for the regulars who answer questions and provide other help here: The Norwegian Ministry of Education is abut to test examinations where students have access to internet: http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/Skeptiske-til--bruke-Internett-p-eksamen-6734506.html (Haven't found an English version yet; no doubt some will pop up as soon the international news stations pick up on this lunacy.) As for now, there is a non-vanishing chance that there might pop up questions from students who need answers not for homework or projects, but for exams. The idea is insane enough to actually spread to other parts of the world, so beware; the answers you give here might be what get your next colleague his or her diploma... Rune
Internet access during exams
Started by ●January 5, 2012
Reply by ●January 5, 20122012-01-05
On Thu, 5 Jan 2012 14:40:48 -0800 (PST), Rune Allnor <allnor@tele.ntnu.no> wrote:>Just a heads-up / warning for the regulars who answer >questions and provide other help here: > >The Norwegian Ministry of Education is abut to test >examinations where students have access to internet: > >http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/Skeptiske-til--bruke-Internett-p-eksamen-6734506.html > >(Haven't found an English version yet; no doubt some will >pop up as soon the international news stations pick up on >this lunacy.) > >As for now, there is a non-vanishing chance that there >might pop up questions from students who need answers >not for homework or projects, but for exams. The idea >is insane enough to actually spread to other parts of >the world, so beware; the answers you give here might >be what get your next colleague his or her diploma... > >RuneUsenet, and most internet q&a venues, isn't good for real-time answers, so I doubt it'll be much problem here. It's easily managed at an individual level by just looking at the post time and not responding unless a typical exam duration has passed. Eric Jacobsen Anchor Hill Communications www.anchorhill.com
Reply by ●January 5, 20122012-01-05
On 1/5/2012 5:52 PM, Eric Jacobsen wrote:> On Thu, 5 Jan 2012 14:40:48 -0800 (PST), Rune Allnor > <allnor@tele.ntnu.no> wrote: > >> Just a heads-up / warning for the regulars who answer >> questions and provide other help here: >> >> The Norwegian Ministry of Education is abut to test >> examinations where students have access to internet: >> >> http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/Skeptiske-til--bruke-Internett-p-eksamen-6734506.html >> >> (Haven't found an English version yet; no doubt some will >> pop up as soon the international news stations pick up on >> this lunacy.) >> >> As for now, there is a non-vanishing chance that there >> might pop up questions from students who need answers >> not for homework or projects, but for exams. The idea >> is insane enough to actually spread to other parts of >> the world, so beware; the answers you give here might >> be what get your next colleague his or her diploma... >> >> Rune > > Usenet, and most internet q&a venues, isn't good for real-time > answers, so I doubt it'll be much problem here. It's easily managed > at an individual level by just looking at the post time and not > responding unless a typical exam duration has passed.If access to newsgroups brings email with it, then there's another avenue of information transfer. Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. �����������������������������������������������������������������������
Reply by ●January 5, 20122012-01-05
On Thu, 05 Jan 2012 14:40:48 -0800, Rune Allnor wrote:> Just a heads-up / warning for the regulars who answer questions and > provide other help here: > > The Norwegian Ministry of Education is abut to test examinations where > students have access to internet: > > http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/Skeptiske-til--bruke-Internett-p-eksamen-6734506.html> > (Haven't found an English version yet; no doubt some will pop up as soon > the international news stations pick up on this lunacy.) > > As for now, there is a non-vanishing chance that there might pop up > questions from students who need answers not for homework or projects, > but for exams. The idea is insane enough to actually spread to other > parts of the world, so beware; the answers you give here might be what > get your next colleague his or her diploma...The answer is to design the exam so that having access to the Internet doesn't help. I don't know if that's _possible_, but that's the _answer_. -- My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook. My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook. Why am I not happy that they have found common ground? Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Software http://www.wescottdesign.com
Reply by ●January 5, 20122012-01-05
Rune Allnor wrote:> Just a heads-up / warning for the regulars who answer > questions and provide other help here: > > The Norwegian Ministry of Education is abut to test > examinations where students have access to internet: > > http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/Skeptiske-til--bruke-Internett-p-eksamen-6734506.html > > (Haven't found an English version yet; no doubt some will > pop up as soon the international news stations pick up on > this lunacy.) > > As for now, there is a non-vanishing chance that there > might pop up questions from students who need answers > not for homework or projects, but for exams. The idea > is insane enough to actually spread to other parts of > the world, so beware; the answers you give here might > be what get your next colleague his or her diploma... > > RuneUsenet is faaaaar too slow for that.... -- Les Cargill
Reply by ●January 5, 20122012-01-05
On Thu, 05 Jan 2012 17:53:34 -0600, Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.com> wrote:>On Thu, 05 Jan 2012 14:40:48 -0800, Rune Allnor wrote: > >> Just a heads-up / warning for the regulars who answer questions and >> provide other help here: >> >> The Norwegian Ministry of Education is abut to test examinations where >> students have access to internet: >> >> http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/Skeptiske-til--bruke-Internett- >p-eksamen-6734506.html >> >> (Haven't found an English version yet; no doubt some will pop up as soon >> the international news stations pick up on this lunacy.) >> >> As for now, there is a non-vanishing chance that there might pop up >> questions from students who need answers not for homework or projects, >> but for exams. The idea is insane enough to actually spread to other >> parts of the world, so beware; the answers you give here might be what >> get your next colleague his or her diploma... > >The answer is to design the exam so that having access to the Internet >doesn't help. > >I don't know if that's _possible_, but that's the _answer_.Or that you can detect that the internet was used. That'd probably be just as effective. Eric Jacobsen Anchor Hill Communications www.anchorhill.com
Reply by ●January 5, 20122012-01-05
>On Thu, 05 Jan 2012 17:53:34 -0600, Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.com> >wrote: > >>On Thu, 05 Jan 2012 14:40:48 -0800, Rune Allnor wrote: >> >>> Just a heads-up / warning for the regulars who answer questions and >>> provide other help here: >>> >>> The Norwegian Ministry of Education is abut to test examinations where >>> students have access to internet: >>> >>>http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/Skeptiske-til--bruke-Internett->>p-eksamen-6734506.html >>> >>> (Haven't found an English version yet; no doubt some will pop up assoon>>> the international news stations pick up on this lunacy.) >>> >>> As for now, there is a non-vanishing chance that there might pop up >>> questions from students who need answers not for homework or projects, >>> but for exams. The idea is insane enough to actually spread to other >>> parts of the world, so beware; the answers you give here might be what >>> get your next colleague his or her diploma... >> >>The answer is to design the exam so that having access to the Internet >>doesn't help. >> >>I don't know if that's _possible_, but that's the _answer_. > >Or that you can detect that the internet was used. That'd probably >be just as effective.If they are permitting access to the Internet, then presumably their goal is that the Internet *will* be used in some way. I guess this looked like a natural extension of open book exams to someone. Chances are that someone hasn't really thought through the difference between figuring stuff out by having access to a book, and simply asking some guy on the Internet for direct answers to direct question. Steve
Reply by ●January 6, 20122012-01-06
steveu wrote:>>On Thu, 05 Jan 2012 17:53:34 -0600, Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.com> >>wrote: >> >> >>>On Thu, 05 Jan 2012 14:40:48 -0800, Rune Allnor wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Just a heads-up / warning for the regulars who answer questions and >>>>provide other help here: >>>> >>>>The Norwegian Ministry of Education is abut to test examinations where >>>>students have access to internet: >>>> >>>> > > http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/Skeptiske-til--bruke-Internett- > >>>p-eksamen-6734506.html >>> >>>>(Haven't found an English version yet; no doubt some will pop up as > > soon > >>>>the international news stations pick up on this lunacy.) >>>> >>>>As for now, there is a non-vanishing chance that there might pop up >>>>questions from students who need answers not for homework or projects, >>>>but for exams. The idea is insane enough to actually spread to other >>>>parts of the world, so beware; the answers you give here might be what >>>>get your next colleague his or her diploma... >>> >>>The answer is to design the exam so that having access to the Internet >>>doesn't help. >>> >>>I don't know if that's _possible_, but that's the _answer_. >> >>Or that you can detect that the internet was used. That'd probably >>be just as effective. > > > If they are permitting access to the Internet, then presumably their goal > is that the Internet *will* be used in some way. I guess this looked like a > natural extension of open book exams to someone. Chances are that someone > hasn't really thought through the difference between figuring stuff out by > having access to a book, and simply asking some guy on the Internet for > direct answers to direct question.A professor could see immediately what is each student worth. An open book, a computer or internet won't deceive the examiner. If they allow for reasonable amount of subjectivism in grading, that internet practice wouldn't change anything. Vladimir Vassilevsky DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant http://www.abvolt.com
Reply by ●January 6, 20122012-01-06
In comp.dsp Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.com> wrote: (snip)> The answer is to design the exam so that having access to the Internet > doesn't help.> I don't know if that's _possible_, but that's the _answer_.I remember in college having "open calculator" exams when there were no numbers anywhere in any of the problems to calculate. Now that calculators can do symbolic algebra, maybe they would be more useful. Maybe you can't design an exam so that the Internet doesn't help, but maybe just not help enough. -- glen
Reply by ●January 6, 20122012-01-06
On 1/6/12 12:05 AM, Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:> >...> > A professor could see immediately what is each student worth. An open > book, a computer or internet won't deceive the examiner. If they allow > for reasonable amount of subjectivism in grading, that internet practice > wouldn't change anything.Vlad, how much subjective evaluation would be allowed. specifically, if the answer contains all the elements or nearly all the elements in it be be correct, including the brief two or three-word syntax between equations (that anyone could plausibly author), then if it smells strongly to the examiner that this guy lifted his answer from the internet, how much can the examiner affect the grade? all of it?: some student answers the question 99% correctly and gets zip because the examiner subjectively concluded that the student plagerized it? i think that for a diploma that is meant to be a credential (i think "credential" and "credibility" come from the same root word), there *has* to be some examination(s) where the subjects being examined can not easily cheat. it means proctored exams where there are monitored limits of access to interactive information. for regular college class exams, i've always thought that a two-part exam, the first is closed-everything (no open books, no calculator, no lap-top) to quiz on concepts, the second part with practical problems would be open book, open notes, and calculator (or internet-disabled laptop, perhaps you would allow MATLAB/Octave to be used). ever see the movie The Emperor's Club? -- r b-j rbj@audioimagination.com "Imagination is more important than knowledge."
