On 9 Jan, 16:24, Dave <dspg...@netscape.net> wrote:> Another comment is to get some of the IEEE people to cooperate with > the guys runnig the bibliographic database stuffGetting BibTeX entries for each article would be a great start in that direction! It takes ridiculous amounts of time writing manually what is already in the IEEE databases. Rune
Lyons needs your advice regarding the IEEE
Started by ●January 6, 2012
Reply by ●January 9, 20122012-01-09
Reply by ●January 9, 20122012-01-09
On 9.1.12 5:24 , Dave wrote:> On Jan 8, 10:29 pm, Rick Lyons<R.Lyons@_BOGUS_ieee.org> wrote: >> YOU GUYS ROCK!!! >> >> I was hopin' you'd volunteer some useful comments >> but, Wow, you really 'came through'. >> What a terrific set of comments/suggestions for >> the IEEE officers. >> >> Here's what I'll do: >> >> [1] Compile your comments under similar categories, such as: >> Cost of Membership >> Make Access to IEEE Papers More Affordable >> How Papers Are Written >> Make Publishing Affordable >> Copyrights >> Refereeing Process >> etc. >> >> [2] Add a few comments of my own, >> [3] Not change your words, that is unless I encounter >> some particularly vicious swear words. I'll have to >> think of replacement text for the term "WTF." Don't worry, >> I'll think of something. Perhaps, I'll replace "WTF" with >> "my goodness." The again, maybe I should just leave >> the "WTF" phrase as is. >> [4] Not bother forwarding the comments regarding >> Isaac Newton, planetary motion, and ellipses. >> [5] Forward our comments to the IEEE Sig. Proc. Society's >> president and tell him from where the comments >> came (i.e., comp.dsp). >> >> Thanks for your all your posts! >> [-Rick-] > > Hi Rick, > In terms of the access to papers it would be useful to have a preview > of the first couple of pages, before paying $35 for a paper that is > crap. If the cost was lowered then this isn't so much of an issue. I > have seen a few other journals do this. > > Another comment is to get some of the IEEE people to cooperate with > the guys runnig the bibliographic database stuff so that translators > are easily available e.g. Zotero, Endnote. Right now every time the > website changes someone has to reverse engineer a translator for it. > > Cheers, > DavidAnother vote for this. I used my association with the local technical university to load a promising article on digital radio, and the guts of the article was a simple analog transverter for converting a VHF radio to HF - a thing that is better described in any quite recent ARRL Handbook. -- Tauno Voipio
Reply by ●January 9, 20122012-01-09
On Mon, 09 Jan 2012 09:24:16 -0600, Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.please> wrote:>On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 19:29:38 -0800, Rick Lyons wrote: > >> YOU GUYS ROCK!!! >> >> I was hopin' you'd volunteer some useful comments but, Wow, you really >> 'came through'. >> What a terrific set of comments/suggestions for the IEEE officers. >> >> Here's what I'll do: >> >> [1] Compile your comments under similar categories, such as: >> Cost of Membership >> Make Access to IEEE Papers More Affordable How Papers Are Written >> Make Publishing Affordable >> Copyrights >> Refereeing Process >> etc. >> >> [2] Add a few comments of my own, >> [3] Not change your words, that is unless I encounter some particularly >> vicious swear words. I'll have to think of replacement text for the >> term "WTF." Don't worry, I'll think of something. Perhaps, I'll replace >> "WTF" with "my goodness." The again, maybe I should just leave the >> "WTF" phrase as is. >> [4] Not bother forwarding the comments regarding Isaac Newton, planetary >> motion, and ellipses. [5] Forward our comments to the IEEE Sig. Proc. >> Society's president and tell him from where the comments came (i.e., >> comp.dsp). >> >> Thanks for your all your posts! >> [-Rick-] > >Consider warning him about the informal language, and sending a link to >the thread on dsprelated.com. Then he can see for himself.I agree. They're adults, and any degree of censorship may create doubt among some. Getting the "actual" inputs, in all their raw glory, is probably best. Eric Jacobsen Anchor Hill Communications www.anchorhill.com
Reply by ●January 9, 20122012-01-09
Dave wrote:> In terms of the access to papers it would be useful to have a preview > of the first couple of pages, before paying $35 for a paper that is > crap. If the cost was lowered then this isn't so much of an issue. I > have seen a few other journals do this.That would help, but: a) The authors don't get paid and for many academic journals actually pay a fee to have their papers published. b) The reviewers and editors for many academic journals also do so for free. With the above in mind, why the hell does it cost $35 for a PDF file downloaded over the internet? Erik -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Erik de Castro Lopo http://www.mega-nerd.com/
Reply by ●January 9, 20122012-01-09
On 1/9/2012 8:24 AM, Dave wrote:> On Jan 8, 10:29 pm, Rick Lyons<R.Lyons@_BOGUS_ieee.org> wrote: >> YOU GUYS ROCK!!! >> >> I was hopin' you'd volunteer some useful comments >> but, Wow, you really 'came through'.[snip]>> >> Thanks for your all your posts! >> [-Rick-] > > Hi Rick, > In terms of the access to papers it would be useful to have a preview > of the first couple of pages, before paying $35 for a paper that is > crap. If the cost was lowered then this isn't so much of an issue. I > have seen a few other journals do this. > > Another comment is to get some of the IEEE people to cooperate with > the guys runnig the bibliographic database stuff so that translators > are easily available e.g. Zotero, Endnote. Right now every time the > website changes someone has to reverse engineer a translator for it. > > Cheers, > DavidWhen you order a book from Amazon.com you can read reviews and get some idea about what you're getting. Not so, IEEE papers. It's less risk to me to buy books than buy papers - even though the information is not so timely. But then again time is what provides the notion of relevance. Maybe some peer feedback mechanism would be appropriate. Comments like "This is the definitive paper on the design of multi-rate, multi-level digital thermo-throckles. Recommended", or "Don't bother. This just rehashes Jone's paper but assumes the special case of AGWN. Go read it." would be valuable. That feedback is one of the reasons I lurk this forum. Surely the authors aren't so thin skinned... Rob.
Reply by ●January 10, 20122012-01-10
On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 17:39:53 -0800, Rick Lyons wrote:> On 06 Jan 2012 14:12:42 GMT, Allan Herriman <allanherriman@hotmail.com> > wrote: > >>On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 04:05:37 -0800, Rick Lyons wrote: >> >> >>> It's because of that question that I now ask for advice from you guys >>> here on comp.dsp. What would you suggest to the IEEE with regard to >>> how they could be of more value to you? What services do you think >>> the IEEE should provide to guys like us? >> >>They could relax their copyright stance. Example, there are VHDL >>packages that were developed by the user community as part of a >>standardisation effort. Then the thing got published as an IEEE >>standard and the IEEE put their restrictive copyright conditions on it. >>They didn't even write any of it, FFS. Standardisation is meant to help >>designers, but the IEEE's actions do the opposite. >> >>Allan > > Hello Alan, > can you tell me what '"FFS" means?For F***'s Sake. Cheers, Allan
Reply by ●January 10, 20122012-01-10
On Jan 9, 6:02�pm, Erik de Castro Lopo <er...@mega-nerd.com> wrote:> Dave wrote: > > In terms of the access to papers it would be useful to have a preview > > of the first couple of pages, before paying $35 for a paper that is > > crap. If the cost was lowered then this isn't so much of an issue. I > > have seen a few other journals do this. > > That would help, but: > > � a) The authors don't get paid and for many academic journals actually > � � �pay a fee to have their papers published. > > � b) The reviewers and editors for many academic journals also do so > � � �for free. > > With the above in mind, why the hell does it cost $35 for a PDF file > downloaded over the internet? > > Erik > --The $35 / papers does seem expensive - you have to really want that paper for that price. You would think the IEEE would make more money at a cost of $5 or $10 i.e. more people would download the paper they wanted. I used to wait until I had a few papers I wanted and then go to the university library to get them. Currently your IEEE membership doesn't get you anything through IEEE Xplore (except for Spectrum magazine). A few years ago they had scheme where you could download a few papers a month - that atleast gave you something, but I don't think that was offered at the individual member level. At our office they don't get the printed versions anymore - we had limited room to store them, especially considering our susbscription goes back to the 70's. Cheers, David
Reply by ●January 10, 20122012-01-10
On 1/10/2012 5:35 AM, Dave wrote:> On Jan 9, 6:02 pm, Erik de Castro Lopo<er...@mega-nerd.com> wrote: >> Dave wrote: >>> In terms of the access to papers it would be useful to have a preview >>> of the first couple of pages, before paying $35 for a paper that is >>> crap. If the cost was lowered then this isn't so much of an issue. I >>> have seen a few other journals do this. >> >> That would help, but: >> >> a) The authors don't get paid and for many academic journals actually >> pay a fee to have their papers published. >> >> b) The reviewers and editors for many academic journals also do so >> for free. >> >> With the above in mind, why the hell does it cost $35 for a PDF file >> downloaded over the internet? >> >> Erik >> -- > > The $35 / papers does seem expensive - you have to really want that > paper for that price. You would think the IEEE would make more money > at a cost of $5 or $10 i.e. more people would download the paper they > wanted. I used to wait until I had a few papers I wanted and then go > to the university library to get them. > > Currently your IEEE membership doesn't get you anything through IEEE > Xplore (except for Spectrum magazine). A few years ago they had scheme > where you could download a few papers a month - that atleast gave you > something, but I don't think that was offered at the individual member > level. > > At our office they don't get the printed versions anymore - we had > limited room to store them, especially considering our susbscription > goes back to the 70's. > > Cheers, > David >David, No doubt it pays to remember that one of the E's in IEEE is "Engineers". It doesn't say anything about "marketing" or "business management". Still, I think there's a paid staff, no? ummm... just to be clear: I agree with your observation. :-) Fred
Reply by ●January 11, 20122012-01-11
Fred Marshall wrote:> On 1/10/2012 5:35 AM, Dave wrote: >> On Jan 9, 6:02 pm, Erik de Castro Lopo<er...@mega-nerd.com> wrote: >>> Dave wrote:<snip>>> The $35 / papers does seem expensive - you have to really want that >> paper for that price. You would think the IEEE would make more money >> at a cost of $5 or $10 i.e. more people would download the paper they >> wanted. I used to wait until I had a few papers I wanted and then go >> to the university library to get them. >> >> Currently your IEEE membership doesn't get you anything through IEEE >> Xplore (except for Spectrum magazine). A few years ago they had scheme >> where you could download a few papers a month - that atleast gave you >> something, but I don't think that was offered at the individual member >> level. >> >> At our office they don't get the printed versions anymore - we had >> limited room to store them, especially considering our susbscription >> goes back to the 70's.<snip>> No doubt it pays to remember that one of the E's in IEEE is "Engineers". > It doesn't say anything about "marketing" or "business management". > Still, I think there's a paid staff, no? > ummm... just to be clear: I agree with your observation.Actually that seems backwards to me. I don't think there's an engineer alive who thinks $35 makes any sense. The MBA's though seems to push the envelope of "what the market will bear". FWIW, it seems $35 is a pretty standard rate for papers for NON-members of some organizations. I haven't checked - what do we charge non-members?
Reply by ●January 12, 20122012-01-12
stan wrote:> Actually that seems backwards to me. I don't think there's an engineer > alive who thinks $35 makes any sense. The MBA's though seems to push > the envelope of "what the market will bear". > > FWIW, it seems $35 is a pretty standard rate for papers for > NON-members of some organizations. I haven't checked - what do we > charge non-members?That $35 is a figure arrived at when someone had to find the paper in a library of journals, photocopy it and then stuff it in an envelope. For that service, $35 seems pretty fair to me. However, for internet delivery of a document from a HTTP server, $35 is extortionate. All of the academic publishers need to revise their fees. Erik -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Erik de Castro Lopo http://www.mega-nerd.com/
