>On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 11:22:45 -0500, Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> wrote: > >>On 1/17/2012 8:27 AM, Rick Lyons wrote: >>> On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 15:06:04 -0600, "Vl4ever" >>> <moikef@n_o_s_p_a_m.gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> [Snipped by Lyons] >>> >>> V14ever, >>> >>> you might help at: >>> >>>http://www.mathworks.com/products/signal/demos.html?file=/products/demos/shipping/signal/introfdatooldemo.html#10>> >>Rick, >> >>Youse is a good guy! Did you let Mathworks know about the bug you found? >> >>Jerry > >Hi Jer, > No I didn't. In the past when I thought I found >a bug in some commercial software it usually turned >to be my 'operator error' instead of a bug. > >Maybe I'll experiment further to se4e waht I can learn. > >See Ya', >[-Rick-] >Thank you all for your responses,but unfortunately you have shown me so far (except for almost complete 'G' vector description) things I have ran into before.SOS and G vectors still remain the same in any form you look at it ( whether in *.mat format or in workspace in Matlab.The question is still the same-having the layout on the following form : G = 0.0037 0.0037 0.0028 1.0000 SOS = 1.0000 0 -1.0000 1.0000 -1.9887 0.9971 1.0000 0 -1.0000 1.0000 -1.9901 0.9973 1.0000 0 -1.0000 1.0000 -1.9867 0.9945 I know now that first three values of G (counting from the top down) are multiplicators of its respective row in SOS matrix.The question is what is the last value is meant for exactly? Thank You, Michael.
using fdatool and cmsis
Started by ●January 14, 2012
Reply by ●January 28, 20122012-01-28
Reply by ●January 28, 20122012-01-28
On Jan 28, 3:21�pm, "Vl4ever" <moikef@n_o_s_p_a_m.gmail.com> wrote:> >On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 11:22:45 -0500, Jerry Avins <j...@ieee.org> wrote: > > >>On 1/17/2012 8:27 AM, Rick Lyons wrote: > >>> On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 15:06:04 -0600, "Vl4ever" > >>> <moikef@n_o_s_p_a_m.gmail.com> �wrote: > > >>> � � [Snipped by Lyons] > > >>> V14ever, > > >>> � �you might help at: > > http://www.mathworks.com/products/signal/demos.html?file=/products/de... > > > > > > > > >>Rick, > > >>Youse is a good guy! Did you let Mathworks know about the bug you found? > > >>Jerry > > >Hi Jer, > > �No I didn't. �In the past when I thought I found > >a bug in some commercial software it usually turned > >to be my 'operator error' instead of a bug. > > >Maybe I'll experiment further to se4e waht I can learn. > > >See Ya', > >[-Rick-] > > Thank you all for your responses,but unfortunately you have shown me so far > (except for almost complete 'G' vector description) things I have ran into > before.SOS and G vectors still remain the same in any form you look at it ( > whether in *.mat format or in workspace in Matlab.The question is still the > same-having the layout on the following form : > > G = > > � � 0.0037 > � � 0.0037 > � � 0.0028 > � � 1.0000 > > SOS = > > � � 1.0000 � � � � 0 � -1.0000 � �1.0000 � -1.9887 � �0.9971 > � � 1.0000 � � � � 0 � -1.0000 � �1.0000 � -1.9901 � �0.9973 > � � 1.0000 � � � � 0 � -1.0000 � �1.0000 � -1.9867 � �0.9945 > I know now that first three values of G (counting from the top down) are > multiplicators of its respective row in SOS matrix.The question is what is > the last value is meant for exactly? > Thank You, > � � � � � Michael.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -Return with us now to those early days of yester-year. Specifically, Jan. 16 where I wrote "The last row of the gain matrix is the gain applied to the over filter. It's all right there in the documentation." Well, let's be more detailed. You have all those sections with their gains, right? Well put all of those section in side a big box. This is now the overall filter. Thake the output of this filter and apply the gain of the last row of the gain vector. In other words, the gain is applied to the overall filter. Maurice Givens
Reply by ●January 28, 20122012-01-28
On 1/28/2012 5:00 PM, maury wrote:> On Jan 28, 3:21 pm, "Vl4ever"<moikef@n_o_s_p_a_m.gmail.com> wrote: >>> On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 11:22:45 -0500, Jerry Avins<j...@ieee.org> wrote: >> >>>> On 1/17/2012 8:27 AM, Rick Lyons wrote: >>>>> On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 15:06:04 -0600, "Vl4ever" >>>>> <moikef@n_o_s_p_a_m.gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>>> [Snipped by Lyons] >> >>>>> V14ever, >> >>>>> you might help at: >> >> http://www.mathworks.com/products/signal/demos.html?file=/products/de... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> Rick, >> >>>> Youse is a good guy! Did you let Mathworks know about the bug you found? >> >>>> Jerry >> >>> Hi Jer, >>> No I didn't. In the past when I thought I found >>> a bug in some commercial software it usually turned >>> to be my 'operator error' instead of a bug. >> >>> Maybe I'll experiment further to se4e waht I can learn. >> >>> See Ya', >>> [-Rick-] >> >> Thank you all for your responses,but unfortunately you have shown me so far >> (except for almost complete 'G' vector description) things I have ran into >> before.SOS and G vectors still remain the same in any form you look at it ( >> whether in *.mat format or in workspace in Matlab.The question is still the >> same-having the layout on the following form : >> >> G = >> >> 0.0037 >> 0.0037 >> 0.0028 >> 1.0000 >> >> SOS = >> >> 1.0000 0 -1.0000 1.0000 -1.9887 0.9971 >> 1.0000 0 -1.0000 1.0000 -1.9901 0.9973 >> 1.0000 0 -1.0000 1.0000 -1.9867 0.9945 >> I know now that first three values of G (counting from the top down) are >> multiplicators of its respective row in SOS matrix.The question is what is >> the last value is meant for exactly? >> Thank You, >> Michael.- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Return with us now to those early days of yester-year. Specifically, > Jan. 16 where I wrote > > "The last row of the gain matrix is the gain applied to the over > filter. It's all right there in the documentation." > > Well, let's be more detailed. You have all those sections with their > gains, right? Well put all of those section in side a big box. This is > now the overall filter. Thake the output of this filter and apply the > gain of the last row of the gain vector. In other words, the gain is > applied to the overall filter.So the last entry is the product of the first three? It doesn't look that way to me. What happened? Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. �����������������������������������������������������������������������
Reply by ●January 28, 20122012-01-28
On Jan 28, 5:18�pm, Jerry Avins <j...@ieee.org> wrote:> On 1/28/2012 5:00 PM, maury wrote: > > > > > > > On Jan 28, 3:21 pm, "Vl4ever"<moikef@n_o_s_p_a_m.gmail.com> �wrote: > >>> On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 11:22:45 -0500, Jerry Avins<j...@ieee.org> �wrote: > > >>>> On 1/17/2012 8:27 AM, Rick Lyons wrote: > >>>>> On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 15:06:04 -0600, "Vl4ever" > >>>>> <moikef@n_o_s_p_a_m.gmail.com> � �wrote: > > >>>>> � � �[Snipped by Lyons] > > >>>>> V14ever, > > >>>>> � � you might help at: > > >>http://www.mathworks.com/products/signal/demos.html?file=/products/de... > > >>>> Rick, > > >>>> Youse is a good guy! Did you let Mathworks know about the bug you found? > > >>>> Jerry > > >>> Hi Jer, > >>> � No I didn't. �In the past when I thought I found > >>> a bug in some commercial software it usually turned > >>> to be my 'operator error' instead of a bug. > > >>> Maybe I'll experiment further to se4e waht I can learn. > > >>> See Ya', > >>> [-Rick-] > > >> Thank you all for your responses,but unfortunately you have shown me so far > >> (except for almost complete 'G' vector description) things I have ran into > >> before.SOS and G vectors still remain the same in any form you look at it ( > >> whether in *.mat format or in workspace in Matlab.The question is still the > >> same-having the layout on the following form : > > >> G = > > >> � � �0.0037 > >> � � �0.0037 > >> � � �0.0028 > >> � � �1.0000 > > >> SOS = > > >> � � �1.0000 � � � � 0 � -1.0000 � �1.0000 � -1.9887 � �0.9971 > >> � � �1.0000 � � � � 0 � -1.0000 � �1.0000 � -1.9901 � �0.9973 > >> � � �1.0000 � � � � 0 � -1.0000 � �1.0000 � -1.9867 � �0.9945 > >> I know now that first three values of G (counting from the top down) are > >> multiplicators of its respective row in SOS matrix.The question is what is > >> the last value is meant for exactly? > >> Thank You, > >> � � � � � �Michael.- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > Return with us now to those early days of yester-year. Specifically, > > Jan. 16 where I wrote > > > "The last row of the gain matrix is the gain applied to the over > > filter. It's all right there in the documentation." > > > Well, let's be more detailed. You have all those sections with their > > gains, right? Well put all of those section in side a big box. This is > > now the overall filter. Thake the output of this filter and apply the > > gain of the last row of the gain vector. In other words, the gain is > > applied to the overall filter. > > So the last entry is the product of the first three? It doesn't look > that way to me. What happened? > > Jerry > > -- > Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. > �����������������������������������������������������������������������- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -No, Jerry. Let the gains be g1, g2, g3, g4 for each section. Let the overall gain be G. Let the sections be s1 ... Then the block dia would be s1 g1 ----> s2 g2----> s3 g3----> s4 g4----> G Whenever I've done IIR filters with fdatool, the overall gain has always been 1. Maurice
Reply by ●January 29, 20122012-01-29
On 1/28/2012 9:11 PM, maury wrote:> On Jan 28, 5:18 pm, Jerry Avins<j...@ieee.org> wrote: >> On 1/28/2012 5:00 PM, maury wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Jan 28, 3:21 pm, "Vl4ever"<moikef@n_o_s_p_a_m.gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 11:22:45 -0500, Jerry Avins<j...@ieee.org> wrote: >> >>>>>> On 1/17/2012 8:27 AM, Rick Lyons wrote: >>>>>>> On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 15:06:04 -0600, "Vl4ever" >>>>>>> <moikef@n_o_s_p_a_m.gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>>>>> [Snipped by Lyons] >> >>>>>>> V14ever, >> >>>>>>> you might help at: >> >>>> http://www.mathworks.com/products/signal/demos.html?file=/products/de... >> >>>>>> Rick, >> >>>>>> Youse is a good guy! Did you let Mathworks know about the bug you found? >> >>>>>> Jerry >> >>>>> Hi Jer, >>>>> No I didn't. In the past when I thought I found >>>>> a bug in some commercial software it usually turned >>>>> to be my 'operator error' instead of a bug. >> >>>>> Maybe I'll experiment further to se4e waht I can learn. >> >>>>> See Ya', >>>>> [-Rick-] >> >>>> Thank you all for your responses,but unfortunately you have shown me so far >>>> (except for almost complete 'G' vector description) things I have ran into >>>> before.SOS and G vectors still remain the same in any form you look at it ( >>>> whether in *.mat format or in workspace in Matlab.The question is still the >>>> same-having the layout on the following form : >> >>>> G = >> >>>> 0.0037 >>>> 0.0037 >>>> 0.0028 >>>> 1.0000 >> >>>> SOS = >> >>>> 1.0000 0 -1.0000 1.0000 -1.9887 0.9971 >>>> 1.0000 0 -1.0000 1.0000 -1.9901 0.9973 >>>> 1.0000 0 -1.0000 1.0000 -1.9867 0.9945 >>>> I know now that first three values of G (counting from the top down) are >>>> multiplicators of its respective row in SOS matrix.The question is what is >>>> the last value is meant for exactly? >>>> Thank You, >>>> Michael.- Hide quoted text - >> >>>> - Show quoted text - >> >>> Return with us now to those early days of yester-year. Specifically, >>> Jan. 16 where I wrote >> >>> "The last row of the gain matrix is the gain applied to the over >>> filter. It's all right there in the documentation." >> >>> Well, let's be more detailed. You have all those sections with their >>> gains, right? Well put all of those section in side a big box. This is >>> now the overall filter. Thake the output of this filter and apply the >>> gain of the last row of the gain vector. In other words, the gain is >>> applied to the overall filter. >> >> So the last entry is the product of the first three? It doesn't look >> that way to me. What happened? >> >> Jerry >> >> -- >> Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. >> �����������������������������������������������������������������������- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > No, Jerry. Let the gains be g1, g2, g3, g4 for each section. Let the > overall gain be G. Let the sections be s1 ... Then the block dia would > be > > s1 g1 ----> s2 g2----> s3 g3----> s4 g4----> G > > Whenever I've done IIR filters with fdatool, the overall gain has > always been 1. > > MauriceThanks, Maury, but I'm still confused. When cascading amplifiers and attenuators, the overall gain is the product of the individual sections. Also, filters usually have frequency-dependent gains, so what do the numbers really mean? Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. �����������������������������������������������������������������������
Reply by ●January 30, 20122012-01-30
On Jan 28, 10:11�pm, Jerry Avins <j...@ieee.org> wrote:> On 1/28/2012 9:11 PM, maury wrote: > > > > > > > On Jan 28, 5:18 pm, Jerry Avins<j...@ieee.org> �wrote: > >> On 1/28/2012 5:00 PM, maury wrote: > > >>> On Jan 28, 3:21 pm, "Vl4ever"<moikef@n_o_s_p_a_m.gmail.com> � �wrote: > >>>>> On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 11:22:45 -0500, Jerry Avins<j...@ieee.org> � �wrote: > > >>>>>> On 1/17/2012 8:27 AM, Rick Lyons wrote: > >>>>>>> On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 15:06:04 -0600, "Vl4ever" > >>>>>>> <moikef@n_o_s_p_a_m.gmail.com> � � �wrote: > > >>>>>>> � � � [Snipped by Lyons] > > >>>>>>> V14ever, > > >>>>>>> � � �you might help at: > > >>>>http://www.mathworks.com/products/signal/demos.html?file=/products/de... > > >>>>>> Rick, > > >>>>>> Youse is a good guy! Did you let Mathworks know about the bug you found? > > >>>>>> Jerry > > >>>>> Hi Jer, > >>>>> � �No I didn't. �In the past when I thought I found > >>>>> a bug in some commercial software it usually turned > >>>>> to be my 'operator error' instead of a bug. > > >>>>> Maybe I'll experiment further to se4e waht I can learn. > > >>>>> See Ya', > >>>>> [-Rick-] > > >>>> Thank you all for your responses,but unfortunately you have shown me so far > >>>> (except for almost complete 'G' vector description) things I have ran into > >>>> before.SOS and G vectors still remain the same in any form you look at it ( > >>>> whether in *.mat format or in workspace in Matlab.The question is still the > >>>> same-having the layout on the following form : > > >>>> G = > > >>>> � � � 0.0037 > >>>> � � � 0.0037 > >>>> � � � 0.0028 > >>>> � � � 1.0000 > > >>>> SOS = > > >>>> � � � 1.0000 � � � � 0 � -1.0000 � �1.0000 � -1.9887 � �0.9971 > >>>> � � � 1.0000 � � � � 0 � -1.0000 � �1.0000 � -1.9901 � �0.9973 > >>>> � � � 1.0000 � � � � 0 � -1.0000 � �1.0000 � -1.9867 � �0.9945 > >>>> I know now that first three values of G (counting from the top down) are > >>>> multiplicators of its respective row in SOS matrix.The question is what is > >>>> the last value is meant for exactly? > >>>> Thank You, > >>>> � � � � � � Michael.- Hide quoted text - > > >>>> - Show quoted text - > > >>> Return with us now to those early days of yester-year. Specifically, > >>> Jan. 16 where I wrote > > >>> "The last row of the gain matrix is the gain applied to the over > >>> filter. It's all right there in the documentation." > > >>> Well, let's be more detailed. You have all those sections with their > >>> gains, right? Well put all of those section in side a big box. This is > >>> now the overall filter. Thake the output of this filter and apply the > >>> gain of the last row of the gain vector. In other words, the gain is > >>> applied to the overall filter. > > >> So the last entry is the product of the first three? It doesn't look > >> that way to me. What happened? > > >> Jerry > > >> -- > >> Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. > >> �����������������������������������������������������������������������- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > No, Jerry. Let the gains be g1, g2, g3, g4 for each section. Let the > > overall gain be G. Let the sections be s1 ... Then the block dia would > > be > > > s1 g1 ----> �s2 g2----> �s3 g3----> �s4 g4----> �G > > > Whenever I've done IIR filters with fdatool, the overall gain has > > always been 1. > > > Maurice > > Thanks, Maury, but I'm still confused. When cascading amplifiers and > attenuators, the overall gain is the product of the individual sections. > Also, filters usually have frequency-dependent gains, so what do the > numbers really mean? > > Jerry > -- > Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. > �����������������������������������������������������������������������- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -As I understand it, this is a gain you would apply after going through all sections. I've always converted the fdatool sections into 1 section, especially since I'm usually doing the filtering in a processor.
