Forums

Elderly newbie DSP questions

Started by Richard Owlett December 15, 2003
I've been asking some elementary questions.
I've been accumulating links recommended to those asking "simple" 
questions.
I've also noticed that having available something like Scilab is 
"educational". [ such not available in my era --  60's ]

Anyone know of sites that build on having such as Scilab available as 
an experiment[s/al] platform?

Richard Owlett <rowlett@atlascomm.net> wrote in message
news:<vtsgco5vre1sb1@corp.supernews.com>...
> I've been asking some elementary questions. > I've been accumulating links recommended to those asking "simple" > questions. > I've also noticed that having available something like Scilab is > "educational". [ such not available in my era -- 60's ] > > Anyone know of sites that build on having such as Scilab available as > an experiment[s/al] platform?
Heh, coincidence has it that I found and ordered a book that attempts something like what you are after (using matlab, though, not scilab): McClellan, Burrus, Oppenheim, Parks and Scafer: "Computer-Based Exercises for Signal Processing Using MATLAB Ver.5", Prentice-Hall 1997. The synopsis from www.amazon.com: FEATURES: *Presents many computer-based problems that can be done in conjunction with a course in DSP theory. *Projects relate to practical systems and implementations so the reader can learn and understand how DSP is applied. *Includes projects and exercises, which make full use of the power of MATLAB v5 to explore conceptual, analytical, and computational issues in digital signal processing. *Many projects provide hints to introduce pitfalls, limitations and tricks for getting the most out of MATLAB v5. *Discusses both the power and limitations of MATLAB v5 functions and regularly explores the issue of using built-in functions versus developing code to solve problems. *Exercises consistently reinforce important problem solving behaviors, such as verifying results, experimenting with parameters as a means of building understanding and intuition, exploring the realism of formulations, comparing theoretical and numerical or measured results, and developing predictions and then comparing them to actual results. The author list certainly looks impressive. I don't think the matlab or matlab v5 issue should be taken too literally (at least I hope so!), as some of the reviewers at amazon.com complained that the book neither teaches DSP nor matlab. I haven't got my copy quite yet (according to amazon.com I may have it by the end of the week, christmas eve at the latest) but I'll post a review after I have browsed it. Rune
"Richard Owlett" <rowlett@atlascomm.net> wrote in message
news:vtsgco5vre1sb1@corp.supernews.com...
> I've been asking some elementary questions. > I've been accumulating links recommended to those asking "simple" > questions. > I've also noticed that having available something like Scilab is > "educational". [ such not available in my era -- 60's ] > > Anyone know of sites that build on having such as Scilab available as > an experiment[s/al] platform?
You might also consider Octave. It is more compatible with Matlab which is pretty prevalent. Fred
Rune Allnor wrote:
> Richard Owlett <rowlett@atlascomm.net> wrote in message
news:<vtsgco5vre1sb1@corp.supernews.com>...
> >>I've been asking some elementary questions. >>I've been accumulating links recommended to those asking "simple" >>questions. >>I've also noticed that having available something like Scilab is >>"educational". [ such not available in my era -- 60's ] >> >>Anyone know of sites that build on having such as Scilab available as >>an experiment[s/al] platform? > > > Heh, coincidence has it that I found and ordered a book that attempts > something like what you are after (using matlab, though, not scilab): > > McClellan, Burrus, Oppenheim, Parks and Scafer: "Computer-Based Exercises > for Signal Processing Using MATLAB Ver.5", Prentice-Hall 1997. > > [SNIP The synopsis from www.amazon.com:] > > The author list certainly looks impressive. I don't think the matlab > or matlab v5 issue should be taken too literally (at least I hope so!), > as some of the reviewers at amazon.com complained that the book neither > teaches DSP nor matlab. > > I haven't got my copy quite yet (according to amazon.com I may have it by > the end of the week, christmas eve at the latest) but I'll post a review > after I have browsed it. > > Rune
The posted reviews seem to indicate you love or hate the book. Merging all the reviews I gather the impression the target audience may be those wishing to hone DSP skills. I think I'm looking for book the might be a companion to a into DSP.
Richard Owlett <rowlett@atlascomm.net> wrote in message
news:<vtt81ajmiqt652@corp.supernews.com>...
> Rune Allnor wrote: > > Richard Owlett <rowlett@atlascomm.net> wrote in message
news:<vtsgco5vre1sb1@corp.supernews.com>...
> > > >>I've been asking some elementary questions. > >>I've been accumulating links recommended to those asking "simple" > >>questions. > >>I've also noticed that having available something like Scilab is > >>"educational". [ such not available in my era -- 60's ] > >> > >>Anyone know of sites that build on having such as Scilab available as > >>an experiment[s/al] platform? > > > > > > Heh, coincidence has it that I found and ordered a book that attempts > > something like what you are after (using matlab, though, not scilab): > > > > McClellan, Burrus, Oppenheim, Parks and Scafer: "Computer-Based Exercises > > for Signal Processing Using MATLAB Ver.5", Prentice-Hall 1997. > > > > [SNIP The synopsis from www.amazon.com:] > > > > The author list certainly looks impressive. I don't think the matlab > > or matlab v5 issue should be taken too literally (at least I hope so!), > > as some of the reviewers at amazon.com complained that the book neither > > teaches DSP nor matlab. > > > > I haven't got my copy quite yet (according to amazon.com I may have it by > > the end of the week, christmas eve at the latest) but I'll post a review > > after I have browsed it. > > > > Rune > > The posted reviews seem to indicate you love or hate the book. > Merging all the reviews I gather the impression the target audience > may be those wishing to hone DSP skills. I think I'm looking for book > the might be a companion to a into DSP.
You're right. The book does not appear to be a very good entry-level text. There is one other book, though, apparently along the same lines, Buck et al: "Computer Explorations in Signals and Systems Using MATLAB" Prentice-Hall, 1996 that appears to be directed towards the entry levels. There are, unfortunately, no customer reviews available on www.amazon.com so it's not easy to get an impression of this book. Does anyone know the Buck book? Rune

Richard Owlett wrote:
> > I've been asking some elementary questions. > I've been accumulating links recommended to those asking "simple" > questions. > I've also noticed that having available something like Scilab is > "educational". [ such not available in my era -- 60's ] > > Anyone know of sites that build on having such as Scilab available as > an experiment[s/al] platform?
Matlab is available as a fully functional (except for compilation) student version at a steep discount. It was around $100 when I got it. Mathworks is not terribly pedantic about qualifying as a student. I was taking some courses in recording and welding at our community college and it was enough to qualify. Bob -- "Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein
On 16 Dec 2003 04:14:01 -0800, allnor@tele.ntnu.no (Rune Allnor)
wrote:

>Richard Owlett <rowlett@atlascomm.net> wrote in message
news:<vtt81ajmiqt652@corp.supernews.com>...
>> Rune Allnor wrote: >> > Richard Owlett <rowlett@atlascomm.net> wrote in message
news:<vtsgco5vre1sb1@corp.supernews.com>...
>> > >> >>I've been asking some elementary questions. >> >>I've been accumulating links recommended to those asking "simple" >> >>questions. >> >>I've also noticed that having available something like Scilab is >> >>"educational". [ such not available in my era -- 60's ] >> >> >> >>Anyone know of sites that build on having such as Scilab available as >> >>an experiment[s/al] platform? >> > >> > >> > Heh, coincidence has it that I found and ordered a book that attempts >> > something like what you are after (using matlab, though, not scilab): >> > >> > McClellan, Burrus, Oppenheim, Parks and Scafer: "Computer-Based Exercises >> > for Signal Processing Using MATLAB Ver.5", Prentice-Hall 1997. >> > >> > [SNIP The synopsis from www.amazon.com:] >> > >> > The author list certainly looks impressive. I don't think the matlab >> > or matlab v5 issue should be taken too literally (at least I hope so!), >> > as some of the reviewers at amazon.com complained that the book neither >> > teaches DSP nor matlab. >> > >> > I haven't got my copy quite yet (according to amazon.com I may have it by >> > the end of the week, christmas eve at the latest) but I'll post a review >> > after I have browsed it. >> > >> > Rune >> >> The posted reviews seem to indicate you love or hate the book. >> Merging all the reviews I gather the impression the target audience >> may be those wishing to hone DSP skills. I think I'm looking for book >> the might be a companion to a into DSP.
Hi Rune, I have a copy of the 1994 "Computer-Based Exercises for Signal Processing Using MATLAB" by McClellan, Burrus, Oppenheim, Parks and Schafer et al. It's a book of DSP homework problems with a little (mostly equations) explanatory text. The problems are all geared toward MATLAB. The MathWorks was (some years ago) distributing MATLAB code for the book. I downloaded the MATLAB files from some MathWorks "contribution" webpage. Those files were not solutions to the homework problems, but instead are little utility files to help solve the problems. The list of author names read like the "Who's Who" of DSP. What famous guys!! They helped invent DSP. The "Computer-Based Exercises for Signal Processing Using MATLAB" is definitely NOT for beginners.
>You're right. The book does not appear to be a very good entry-level >text. There is one other book, though, apparently along the same lines, > >Buck et al: "Computer Explorations in Signals and Systems Using MATLAB" > Prentice-Hall, 1996 > >that appears to be directed towards the entry levels. There are, >unfortunately, no customer reviews available on www.amazon.com >so it's not easy to get an impression of this book. > >Does anyone know the Buck book?
Humm, I hadn't heard of the Buck book before. I'll bet he's the John Buck of "Oppenheim, Shafer, and Buck" fame. Hi Richard, the following website, by Dale Grover, might interest you: http://www.redcedar.com/learndsp.htm Regards, [-Rick-]
Rick Lyons wrote:
> On 16 Dec 2003 04:14:01 -0800, allnor@tele.ntnu.no (Rune Allnor) > wrote: > > >>Richard Owlett <rowlett@atlascomm.net> wrote in message
news:<vtt81ajmiqt652@corp.supernews.com>...
>> >>>Rune Allnor wrote: >>> >>>>Richard Owlett <rowlett@atlascomm.net> wrote in message
news:<vtsgco5vre1sb1@corp.supernews.com>...
>>>> >>>> >>>>>I've been asking some elementary questions. >>>>>I've been accumulating links recommended to those asking "simple" >>>>>questions. > [MASSIVE SNIP] > Hi Richard, > the following website, by Dale Grover, might interest you: > > http://www.redcedar.com/learndsp.htm >
A good page to stimulate asking useful questions. Not previously in my link file. Thanks. Might you know some details of the first book recommended by the site for non-traditional student ;? [snicker snicker he DID write it;] Would you say I'm in your target audience? I completed 3 yrs towards a BSEE @ Cornell in early 60's but am not comfortable with explanations dependent on college level math. I think I'm looking for a book which tends towards "cookbook" solutions. dftapied.html nominally aims in my general direction. One thing I require is that there be summary problems for student to solve based on material covered in that ( and previous ) chapters. *OT POSTSCRIPT* I invite one and all to dump on amazon.com for a *useless* look inside feature. I quit looking when all I got was "table of contents". As far as I'm concerned, a "look inside" facility *MUST* give a sample of body of the work. Who cares *WHAT* topics are covered if *THEY ARE NOT* suitably explained. [ For 'truth in gripes' purposes AMAZON regularly irritates me and when buying tech books I go to a "brick and mortar" store 1000 miles from my current address.] *END RANT* ;)
"Richard Owlett" <rowlett@atlascomm.net> wrote in message
news:vu1arne8ir1q59@corp.supernews.com...
> Rick Lyons wrote: > > On 16 Dec 2003 04:14:01 -0800, allnor@tele.ntnu.no (Rune Allnor) > > wrote: > > > > > >>Richard Owlett <rowlett@atlascomm.net> wrote in message
news:<vtt81ajmiqt652@corp.supernews.com>...
> >> > >>>Rune Allnor wrote: > >>> > >>>>Richard Owlett <rowlett@atlascomm.net> wrote in message
news:<vtsgco5vre1sb1@corp.supernews.com>...
> >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>I've been asking some elementary questions. > >>>>>I've been accumulating links recommended to those asking "simple" > >>>>>questions. > > [MASSIVE SNIP] > > Hi Richard, > > the following website, by Dale Grover, might interest you: > > > > http://www.redcedar.com/learndsp.htm > > > > A good page to stimulate asking useful questions. > Not previously in my link file. Thanks. > > Might you know some details of the first book recommended by the site > for non-traditional student ;? [snicker snicker he DID write it;] > > Would you say I'm in your target audience? > I completed 3 yrs towards a BSEE @ Cornell in early 60's but am not > comfortable with explanations dependent on college level math. I think > I'm looking for a book which tends towards "cookbook" solutions. > dftapied.html nominally aims in my general direction. > > One thing I require is that there be summary problems for student to > solve based on material covered in that ( and previous ) chapters. > > *OT POSTSCRIPT* > I invite one and all to dump on amazon.com for a *useless* look inside > feature. I quit looking when all I got was "table of contents". > > As far as I'm concerned, a "look inside" facility *MUST* give a sample > of body of the work. Who cares *WHAT* topics are covered if *THEY ARE > NOT* suitably explained. > > [ For 'truth in gripes' purposes AMAZON regularly irritates me and > when buying tech books I go to a "brick and mortar" store 1000 miles > from my current address.] > > *END RANT* ;)
goggle just released a book review search print.google.com http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1106_2-5128515.html Appears amazon is trying to get into the search engine business so google thought they would get into the book search business. http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104_2-5082848.html Alex
"Bob Cain" <arcane@arcanemethods.com> wrote in message
news:3FDF8F1F.9C3806A3@arcanemethods.com...
> > > Richard Owlett wrote: > > > > I've been asking some elementary questions. > > I've been accumulating links recommended to those asking "simple" > > questions. > > I've also noticed that having available something like Scilab is > > "educational". [ such not available in my era -- 60's ] > > > > Anyone know of sites that build on having such as Scilab available as > > an experiment[s/al] platform? > > Matlab is available as a fully functional (except for > compilation) student version at a steep discount. It was > around $100 when I got it. Mathworks is not terribly > pedantic about qualifying as a student. I was taking some > courses in recording and welding at our community college > and it was enough to qualify. >
If you do get it don't forget to get the add on packages (also available at student discount) from the mathworks online shop(only place for student pricing on add on packges). Alex Gibson