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Can CCD camera output more than just intensity information of image?

Started by walala November 29, 2003
Dear all,

I am curious about how CCD works to pick up images... more specifically, I
wonder CCD camera can output more than just pixel intensity information of
an image? For example, I want to know the "variation" property of a block of
an image, for example, a 8x8 block... roughly classified into "smooth" block
and "non-smooth" block, two classes...

I want to know if CCD can judge this very roughly and output some currents
to indicate this? Anagolous to human eyes, human eyes can tell which part of
the image is "highly non-smooth" at one glance... can CCD do that?

Thanks a lot,

-Walalla


"walala" <mizhael@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bq9c7q$5id$1@mozo.cc.purdue.edu...
> I want to know if CCD can judge this very roughly and output some currents > to indicate this? Anagolous to human eyes, human eyes can tell which part
of
> the image is "highly non-smooth" at one glance... can CCD do that?
I don't know of any CCD camera that does on board image processing as you describe, but if there is one I'd expect it to be expensive. There's all sorts of IP software that does what you want to a greater or lesser extent, including mine. regards, Stewart DIBBS ======================================== Developer of the FreePiXCL 4.48 PiXCL 5 and geoPiXCL 5 Image Processing Languages for Windows 2000/XP www.vysor.com Gatineau, Quebec, CANADA ========================================
walala wrote:

> Dear all, > > I am curious about how CCD works to pick up images... more specifically, I > wonder CCD camera can output more than just pixel intensity information of > an image? For example, I want to know the "variation" property of a block of > an image, for example, a 8x8 block... roughly classified into "smooth" block > and "non-smooth" block, two classes... > > I want to know if CCD can judge this very roughly and output some currents > to indicate this? Anagolous to human eyes, human eyes can tell which part of > the image is "highly non-smooth" at one glance... can CCD do that? > > Thanks a lot, > > -Walalla
"Retina" means "little net". A retina is more than a collection of sensors. It also has connections between sensors that compare outputs and derives information about differences and commonalties among them. Most of the information passed up the optic nerve is of this derivative type. CCDs have no such interconnections. They do no intermediate processing at all. Given the present state of our knowledge, we can't make very good use of the higher-level processing that the eye does. I expect that the depth of our knowledge and the complexity of imaging arrays will advance together, but there's a long way to go. Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. &#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;
CCD matrix have some connections between photosites => in case of
saturation, part of
accumlated charge in the well of one photosite can overflow on neigborhood
photosite.

Unfortunatly it is a parasitic effect leading to 'smear effect'. Completely
uncontrolable

regards


"Jerry Avins" <jya@ieee.org> a &#2013265929;crit dans le message news:
bqam4a$gra$1@bob.news.rcn.net...
> walala wrote: > > > Dear all, > > > > I am curious about how CCD works to pick up images... more specifically,
I
> > wonder CCD camera can output more than just pixel intensity information
of
> > an image? For example, I want to know the "variation" property of a
block of
> > an image, for example, a 8x8 block... roughly classified into "smooth"
block
> > and "non-smooth" block, two classes... > > > > I want to know if CCD can judge this very roughly and output some
currents
> > to indicate this? Anagolous to human eyes, human eyes can tell which
part of
> > the image is "highly non-smooth" at one glance... can CCD do that? > > > > Thanks a lot, > > > > -Walalla > > "Retina" means "little net". A retina is more than a collection of > sensors. It also has connections between sensors that compare outputs > and derives information about differences and commonalties among them. > Most of the information passed up the optic nerve is of this derivative > type. > > CCDs have no such interconnections. They do no intermediate processing > at all. Given the present state of our knowledge, we can't make very > good use of the higher-level processing that the eye does. I expect that > the depth of our knowledge and the complexity of imaging arrays will > advance together, but there's a long way to go. > > Jerry > -- > Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. > &#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095; >
samourai wrote:

> CCD matrix have some connections between photosites => in case of > saturation, part of > accumlated charge in the well of one photosite can overflow on neigborhood > photosite. > > Unfortunatly it is a parasitic effect leading to 'smear effect'. Completely > uncontrolable > > regards
... I think smear is s a bit of a stretch vis-a-vis adjacent-pixel image processing. It's a far cry from what could be achieved by the parallel processing of, say, motion detection, edge detection, and edge orientation directly in the sensor array. We know what to do to achieve those things. What we lack (so far) are practical ways to do them. Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. &#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;
HI,

Today's "smart cameras" most closely fit your description.  DSP's, FPGA's
and general purpose processors (Intel, Motorola) have been incorporated into
a new generation of cameras, CCD and CMOS, to provide quick, local IP at the
camera.  There are a number of designs where the "smarts" are located in a
PC card or separate box as well.   The use of smart cameras is becomming
increasingly more popular as many applications do not require a descreet
computer, have space limitations, or have specific speed and performance
requirements.  Costs vary, but many are priced at about what you would pay
for a good camera, processor, frame grabber, and software anyway.  Generally
not as flexible as discreet components, they can be very convenient.  It
would be best to discuss this with an IP professional or Representative who
handles a number of different technologies and knows the ins and outs of
each.  I Know Scott at 1stVision (used to work for him in the past) would be
very helpful.  Check out his site.  Hope this helps,

Larry T.
walala wrote:
> > I want to know if CCD can judge this very roughly and output some currents > to indicate this? Anagolous to human eyes, human eyes can tell which part of > the image is "highly non-smooth" at one glance... can CCD do that?
The human eye cannot do this, either. However, the human *brain* can. Analogously, the camera just gives you an image. You can do processing on that image to identify areas with strong high-frequency components. -- Mike Smith
walala wrote:
> Dear all, > > I am curious about how CCD works to pick up images... more specifically, I > wonder CCD camera can output more than just pixel intensity information of > an image? For example, I want to know the "variation" property of a block > of an image, for example, a 8x8 block... roughly classified into "smooth" > block and "non-smooth" block, two classes... > > I want to know if CCD can judge this very roughly and output some currents > to indicate this? Anagolous to human eyes, human eyes can tell which part > of the image is "highly non-smooth" at one glance... can CCD do that?
You'd be better off just doing some image processing in software than expecting it to come as part of the hardware for a camera. Ben -- I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a String...
Mike Smith wrote:

> walala wrote:
>> I want to know if CCD can judge this very roughly and output some >> currents >> to indicate this? Anagolous to human eyes, human eyes can tell which >> part of >> the image is "highly non-smooth" at one glance... can CCD do that?
> The human eye cannot do this, either. However, the human *brain* can. > Analogously, the camera just gives you an image. You can do processing > on that image to identify areas with strong high-frequency components.
As far as I know, human eyes can do the color difference signal calculation, but not other calculations. Other animals might be different. -- glen