Oppenheim & Schafer

Hi all. 

I have seen one or two references to "Oppenheim & Schafer" in a couple 
of recent threads. After a search on www.amazon.com I find two books: 

Discrete-Time Signal Processing (2nd Edition)

issued in 1999, and

Digital Signal Processing

which apparently is the "original" one from 1975. It seems to me as 
the 1975 book is still available in sale, which I find a bit curious
since early editions usually are withdrawn when new editions of 
a work are released, or new editions are not released until the 
original has been out of stock for some time.

Does anyone know why the two different editions are available?
And what differnces there may be betwen the two? According to one 
customer review at amazon there seems to be quite substantial 
differences in covered material.

Rune

On 12 Nov 2003 13:58:47 -0800, allnor@tele.ntnu.no (Rune Allnor)
wrote:

>>Does anyone know why the two different editions are available?
>>And what differnces there may be betwen the two? According to one 
>>customer review at amazon there seems to be quite substantial 
>>differences in covered material.

I have both.  I use the original more often because that's the one
that I learned from.  It's a classic.

Table of Contents for the original:

	Introduction
	Discrete-Time Signals and Systems
	The Z-Transform
	The Discrete Fourier Transform
	Flow Graph and Matrix Representation of Digital Filters
	Digital Filter Design Techniques
	Computation of the Discrete Fourier Transform
	Discrete Hilbert Transforms
	Discrete Random Signals
	Effects of Finite Register Length in Digital Signal
		Processing
	Homomorphic Signal Processing
	Power Spectrum Estimation

Table of Contents for the newer:

	Introduction
	Discrete-Time Signals and Systems
	Sampling of Continuous-Time Signals
	The Z-Transform
	Transform Analysis of Linear Time-Invariant Systems
	Structures for Discrete-Time Systems
	Filter Design Techniques
	The Discrete Fourier Transform
	Computation of the Discrete Fourier Transform
	Discrete Hilbert Transforms
	Fourier Analysis of Signals Using the Discrete Fourier 
		Transform
	Cepstrum Analysis and Homomorphic Deconvolution
	Appendix A  Random Signals
	Appendix B  Continuous-Time Filters

-- GB

Discrete Time Signal Processing is a much easier read. They are not the same
book.

Dirk A. Bell
DSP Consultant

"Rune Allnor" <allnor@tele.ntnu.no> wrote in message
news:f56893ae.0311121358.294f98e6@posting.google.com...
> Hi all.
>
> I have seen one or two references to "Oppenheim & Schafer" in a couple
> of recent threads. After a search on www.amazon.com I find two books:
>
> Discrete-Time Signal Processing (2nd Edition)
>
> issued in 1999, and
>
> Digital Signal Processing
>
> which apparently is the "original" one from 1975. It seems to me as
> the 1975 book is still available in sale, which I find a bit curious
> since early editions usually are withdrawn when new editions of
> a work are released, or new editions are not released until the
> original has been out of stock for some time.
>
> Does anyone know why the two different editions are available?
> And what differnces there may be betwen the two? According to one
> customer review at amazon there seems to be quite substantial
> differences in covered material.
>
> Rune

In article lvb5rv4o7hj9gjqq2vb397ah8mk2eediea@4ax.com, Greg Berchin at
Bank-to-Turn@mchsi.com wrote on 11/12/2003 17:19:

> On 12 Nov 2003 13:58:47 -0800, allnor@tele.ntnu.no (Rune Allnor)
> wrote:
> 
>>> Does anyone know why the two different editions are available?
>>> And what differnces there may be betwen the two? According to one
>>> customer review at amazon there seems to be quite substantial
>>> differences in covered material.
> 
> I have both.  I use the original more often because that's the one
> that I learned from.  It's a classic.
> 
> Table of Contents for the original:
> 
> Introduction
> Discrete-Time Signals and Systems
> The Z-Transform
> The Discrete Fourier Transform
> Flow Graph and Matrix Representation of Digital Filters
> Digital Filter Design Techniques
> Computation of the Discrete Fourier Transform
> Discrete Hilbert Transforms
> Discrete Random Signals
> Effects of Finite Register Length in Digital Signal
> Processing
> Homomorphic Signal Processing
> Power Spectrum Estimation
> 
> Table of Contents for the newer:
> 
> Introduction
> Discrete-Time Signals and Systems
> Sampling of Continuous-Time Signals
> The Z-Transform
> Transform Analysis of Linear Time-Invariant Systems
> Structures for Discrete-Time Systems
> Filter Design Techniques
> The Discrete Fourier Transform
> Computation of the Discrete Fourier Transform
> Discrete Hilbert Transforms
> Fourier Analysis of Signals Using the Discrete Fourier
> Transform
> Cepstrum Analysis and Homomorphic Deconvolution
> Appendix A  Random Signals
> Appendix B  Continuous-Time Filters

and to complicate the matter further, this book is now in 2nd Edition with
another author:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0137549202/

for some reason the classic "Oppenheim & Schafer" just doesn't evolve well
to "Oppenheim & Schafer & Buck".

what's it gonna be in 10 years? "Oppenheim, Schafer, Buck, Crosby, Stills,
Nash, Young, Sacco, & Vanzetti"?

r b-j

allnor@tele.ntnu.no (Rune Allnor) wrote in message news:<f56893ae.0311121358.294f98e6@posting.google.com>...
> Hi all. 
> 
> I have seen one or two references to "Oppenheim & Schafer" in a couple 
> of recent threads. After a search on www.amazon.com I find two books: 
> 
> Discrete-Time Signal Processing (2nd Edition)
> 
> issued in 1999, and
> 
> Digital Signal Processing
> 
> which apparently is the "original" one from 1975. It seems to me as 
> the 1975 book is still available in sale, which I find a bit curious
> since early editions usually are withdrawn when new editions of 
> a work are released, or new editions are not released until the 
> original has been out of stock for some time.
> 
> Does anyone know why the two different editions are available?
> And what differnces there may be betwen the two? According to one 
> customer review at amazon there seems to be quite substantial 
> differences in covered material.

Hi Rune,

"Digital Signal Processing" is considered to be a (the?) classic text 
on the subject (although I've always found it to be a pain to read). 
The new one is, as Dirk said, a much easier read, usually being used
for the DSP I/II courses in undergraduate EE programs. 

I think there is some good stuff on quantization error analysis in
the old book that isn't in the new one. Don't quote me.

The question you've asked tipped me off that you're not all that
old - mind if I ask? (46 next month here) Back in the late 70's
and 80's, O&S was defacto. 

One more thing - note that he's also got "Signals and Systems" with
Willsky (and Young). I really, really like this book for the basics
on linear system theory, Fourier transforms, etc. 

Randy

"Randy Yates" <yates@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:567ce618.0311122138.20e17680@posting.google.com...
> allnor@tele.ntnu.no (Rune Allnor) wrote in message
news:<f56893ae.0311121358.294f98e6@posting.google.com>...
> > Hi all.
> >
> > I have seen one or two references to "Oppenheim & Schafer" in a couple
> > of recent threads. After a search on www.amazon.com I find two books:
> >
> > Discrete-Time Signal Processing (2nd Edition)
> >
> > issued in 1999, and
> >
> > Digital Signal Processing
> >
> > which apparently is the "original" one from 1975. It seems to me as
> > the 1975 book is still available in sale, which I find a bit curious
> > since early editions usually are withdrawn when new editions of
> > a work are released, or new editions are not released until the
> > original has been out of stock for some time.
> >
> > Does anyone know why the two different editions are available?
> > And what differnces there may be betwen the two? According to one
> > customer review at amazon there seems to be quite substantial
> > differences in covered material.
>
> Hi Rune,
>
> "Digital Signal Processing" is considered to be a (the?) classic text
> on the subject (although I've always found it to be a pain to read).
> The new one is, as Dirk said, a much easier read, usually being used
> for the DSP I/II courses in undergraduate EE programs.
>
> I think there is some good stuff on quantization error analysis in
> the old book that isn't in the new one. Don't quote me.
>
> The question you've asked tipped me off that you're not all that
> old - mind if I ask? (46 next month here) Back in the late 70's
> and 80's, O&S was defacto.
>
> One more thing - note that he's also got "Signals and Systems" with
> Willsky (and Young). I really, really like this book for the basics
> on linear system theory, Fourier transforms, etc.
>
> Randy

I really, really like Lathi's "Signals, Systems and Communication" 1965 for
linear system theory, etc.  I never used it in a course - just read it cover
to cover.

Fred

yates@ieee.org (Randy Yates) wrote in message news:<567ce618.0311122138.20e17680@posting.google.com>...
> allnor@tele.ntnu.no (Rune Allnor) wrote in message news:<f56893ae.0311121358.294f98e6@posting.google.com>...
> > Hi all. 
> > 
> > I have seen one or two references to "Oppenheim & Schafer" in a couple 
> > of recent threads. After a search on www.amazon.com I find two books: 
> > 
> > Discrete-Time Signal Processing (2nd Edition)
> > 
> > issued in 1999, and
> > 
> > Digital Signal Processing
> > 
> > which apparently is the "original" one from 1975. It seems to me as 
> > the 1975 book is still available in sale, which I find a bit curious
> > since early editions usually are withdrawn when new editions of 
> > a work are released, or new editions are not released until the 
> > original has been out of stock for some time.
> > 
> > Does anyone know why the two different editions are available?
> > And what differnces there may be betwen the two? According to one 
> > customer review at amazon there seems to be quite substantial 
> > differences in covered material.
> 
> Hi Rune,
> 
> "Digital Signal Processing" is considered to be a (the?) classic text 
> on the subject (although I've always found it to be a pain to read). 
> The new one is, as Dirk said, a much easier read, usually being used
> for the DSP I/II courses in undergraduate EE programs. 
> 
> I think there is some good stuff on quantization error analysis in
> the old book that isn't in the new one. Don't quote me.

This is what concerns me. If you follow the link to amazon.com provided 
by rb-j, you find the newest edition of the new O&S. One of the reviewers,
a Chinese, says something like that lots of "goodies", some of them 
trivial and some of them arcane, has been edited out of the later books. 

So my impression is that if I want a complete DSP library, I need to buy
the original from 1975.

> The question you've asked tipped me off that you're not all that
> old - mind if I ask? (46 next month here) Back in the late 70's
> and 80's, O&S was defacto. 

Heh, a class mate of mine always spoke of "us who experienced the 
roaring 60ies" -- he was born christmas day in -69...

As for myself, I can bragg that the first landing on the moon happened 
during my life time, though only with a few months of margin.

> One more thing - note that he's also got "Signals and Systems" with
> Willsky (and Young). I really, really like this book for the basics
> on linear system theory, Fourier transforms, etc. 

The basic end of the DSP book spectrum in my shelfs seems to be covered
pretty well by now. Right now I am looking for the "real stuff", or should 
I say "complex stuff" -- nah, never mind... ;) 

Rune

robert bristow-johnson <rbj@surfglobal.net> wrote in message news:<BBD86EFF.5966%rbj@surfglobal.net>...
> In article lvb5rv4o7hj9gjqq2vb397ah8mk2eediea@4ax.com, Greg Berchin at
> Bank-to-Turn@mchsi.com wrote on 11/12/2003 17:19:
> 
> > On 12 Nov 2003 13:58:47 -0800, allnor@tele.ntnu.no (Rune Allnor)
> > wrote:
> > 
> >>> Does anyone know why the two different editions are available?
> >>> And what differnces there may be betwen the two? According to one
> >>> customer review at amazon there seems to be quite substantial
> >>> differences in covered material.
> > 
> > I have both.  I use the original more often because that's the one
> > that I learned from.  It's a classic.
> > 
> > Table of Contents for the original:
> > 
> > Introduction
> > Discrete-Time Signals and Systems
> > The Z-Transform
> > The Discrete Fourier Transform
> > Flow Graph and Matrix Representation of Digital Filters
> > Digital Filter Design Techniques
> > Computation of the Discrete Fourier Transform
> > Discrete Hilbert Transforms
> > Discrete Random Signals
> > Effects of Finite Register Length in Digital Signal
> > Processing
> > Homomorphic Signal Processing
> > Power Spectrum Estimation
> > 
> > Table of Contents for the newer:
> > 
> > Introduction
> > Discrete-Time Signals and Systems
> > Sampling of Continuous-Time Signals
> > The Z-Transform
> > Transform Analysis of Linear Time-Invariant Systems
> > Structures for Discrete-Time Systems
> > Filter Design Techniques
> > The Discrete Fourier Transform
> > Computation of the Discrete Fourier Transform
> > Discrete Hilbert Transforms
> > Fourier Analysis of Signals Using the Discrete Fourier
> > Transform
> > Cepstrum Analysis and Homomorphic Deconvolution
> > Appendix A  Random Signals
> > Appendix B  Continuous-Time Filters
> 
> and to complicate the matter further, this book is now in 2nd Edition with
> another author:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0137549202/
> 
> for some reason the classic "Oppenheim & Schafer" just doesn't evolve well
> to "Oppenheim & Schafer & Buck".
> 
> what's it gonna be in 10 years? "Oppenheim, Schafer, Buck, Crosby, Stills,
> Nash, Young, c"?
> 
> r b-j

Nope. It's gonna be "Buck's Oppenheim & Scafer by Crosby &Stills. Nash & 
Young (eds.). Sacco, & Vanzetti (Series eds.)".

Or something like that.

Rune

On 12 Nov 2003 21:38:08 -0800, yates@ieee.org (Randy Yates) wrote:

>>One more thing - note that he's also got "Signals and Systems" with
>>Willsky (and Young). I really, really like this book for the basics
>>on linear system theory, Fourier transforms, etc. 

I have that one, too.  IIRC, I it was used in a course that I
helped to teach several years ago.  I have always found it a bit
too primitive to be of any use in my working life, though.

Greg

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 23:13:03 -0500, robert bristow-johnson
<rbj@surfglobal.net> wrote:

>>what's it gonna be in 10 years? "Oppenheim, Schafer, Buck, Crosby, Stills,
>>Nash, Young, Sacco, & Vanzetti"?

How about "Oppenheim and Schafer, and rb-j"?  Say it with the same
tempo as in the old Dick Tracy cartoon:  "Six-two and even; over
and out."

Greg