Plural Hertz.

One cycle per second is one Hertz. Is two cycles per second two Hertzes? 
If not, why not?

Related questions:

What is the plural of mongoose?
If 7 troops is the same as 7 soldiers, why can't we write of 1 troop?
How many pants in one pair of pants? What are they?

Jerry
-- 
... they proceeded on the sound principle that the magnitude of a lie
always contains a certain factor of credibility, ... and that therefor
... they more easily fall victim to a big lie than to a little one ...
                                                                   A. H.
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Jerry Avins wrote:
> One cycle per second is one Hertz. Is two cycles per second two Hertzes? 
> If not, why not?

Because "Hertz" is a name, and I think even not an english
name, so you cannot freely pluralize it.

> Related questions:
> 
> What is the plural of mongoose?

Well, actullay I would ask: what has to do a "goose"
with a mongoose...?

Anyway mongooses seems to be quite used (check with google)

> If 7 troops is the same as 7 soldiers, why can't we write of 1 troop?

Why not?
Still google returns a lot of results searching for "one troop"

> How many pants in one pair of pants? What are they?

That's a difficult one... :-)

bye,

-- 

piergiorgio

Piergiorgio Sartor wrote:

> Jerry Avins wrote:
> 
>> One cycle per second is one Hertz. Is two cycles per second two 
>> Hertzes? If not, why not?
> 
> 
> Because "Hertz" is a name, and I think even not an english
> name, so you cannot freely pluralize it.
> 

Ah - that explains why we don't have Amps, Volts, Henries and Teslas 
then ? ;-)

Paul

Paul Russell wrote:
> Piergiorgio Sartor wrote:
> 
>> Jerry Avins wrote:
>>
>>> One cycle per second is one Hertz. Is two cycles per second two 
>>> Hertzes? If not, why not?
>>
>>
>>
>> Because "Hertz" is a name, and I think even not an english
>> name, so you cannot freely pluralize it.
>>
> 
> Ah - that explains why we don't have Amps, Volts, Henries and Teslas 
> then ? ;-)
> 
> Paul


Not really ;)
I think it more a case that English allows just about any phoneme at the 
end of a singular noun. In general it expects an "s" at the end of a of 
a plural noun. When borrowing from other languages anything may happen. 
The "z" in Hertz is sufficiently close to "s" to be an acceptable 
plural. Thus 1 Hertz or 100 Hertz.

What would be more interesting is how do native German speakers treat 
Hertz when used as an SI unit.

Troop vs troops is easier. Troop is simpler.
http://www.bartleby.com/61/73/T0377300.html defines troop as :
...
  2a. A group of soldiers.
   b. troops Military units; soldiers.
   c. A unit of cavalry, armored vehicles,...
...

Thus 1 troop is one soldier or 1 group of soldiers when singular.
Or multiple soldiers or groups of soldiers when plural.

Richard Owlett wrote:

   ...

> Troop vs troops is easier. Troop is simpler.
> http://www.bartleby.com/61/73/T0377300.html defines troop as :
> ...
>  2a. A group of soldiers.
>   b. troops Military units; soldiers.
>   c. A unit of cavalry, armored vehicles,...
> ...
> 
> Thus 1 troop is one soldier or 1 group of soldiers when singular.
> Or multiple soldiers or groups of soldiers when plural.

There must be a category d to encompass one soldier. A, b, or c don't.
But when you hear on the news that three troops were killed today, you
know it's three individuals, not three platoons.

Jerry
-- 
... they proceeded on the sound principle that the magnitude of a lie
always contains a certain factor of credibility, ... and that therefor
... they more easily fall victim to a big lie than to a little one ...
                                                                   A. H.
�����������������������������������������������������������������������

JA [Sun, 26 Sep 2004 16:01:39 -0400]:
 >know it's three individuals, not three platoons.

A troop is more like a company than a platoon.  As in
B Troop, 4/7 Cavalry.  Platoons (say four: Blues (grunts),
Lift (transport), Guns (attack), Scout (peekabooicu)) would
make up the troop.  Troops make up the squadron (Air Cav,
here the 4th).  And troops make up the troop (weird as you
want that to be).  Unless it's F Troop, then actors do,
though they too could be called a troop (acting troop).
But you also see "Troops" to mean the whole bunch, as
in ,"The troops in Iraq really have better things they
could be doing".

Hertz is relatively new.  Old timers (like, umm, Jerry)
are bound to be more familiar with cycles per second.
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hel@40th.com wrote:
> JA [Sun, 26 Sep 2004 16:01:39 -0400]:
>  >know it's three individuals, not three platoons.
> 
> A troop is more like a company than a platoon.  As in
> B Troop, 4/7 Cavalry.  Platoons (say four: Blues (grunts),
> Lift (transport), Guns (attack), Scout (peekabooicu)) would
> make up the troop.  Troops make up the squadron (Air Cav,
> here the 4th).  And troops make up the troop (weird as you
> want that to be).  Unless it's F Troop, then actors do,
> though they too could be called a troop (acting troop).
> But you also see "Troops" to mean the whole bunch, as
> in ,"The troops in Iraq really have better things they
> could be doing".
> 
> Hertz is relatively new.  Old timers (like, umm, Jerry)
> are bound to be more familiar with cycles per second.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: they should have named the
unit of frequency after an early AC pioneer, Charles Proteus Steinmetz.
Honoring him by using his initials would have been quite appropriate.

Jerry

P.S. http://www.invent.org/hall_of_fame/139.html He established AC power 
distribution and lived see it displace Edison's DC system. He calculated 
logarithms in his head. He claimed it was quicker than looking them up.
-- 
No man becomes a fool until he stops asking questions. .. C.P.Steinmetz
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hel@40th.com wrote:

 > JA [Sun, 26 Sep 2004 16:01:39 -0400]:
 >  >know it's three individuals, not three platoons.
 >
 > A troop is more like a company than a platoon.  As in
 > B Troop, 4/7 Cavalry.  Platoons (say four: Blues (grunts),
 > Lift (transport), Guns (attack), Scout (peekabooicu)) would
 > make up the troop.  Troops make up the squadron (Air Cav,
 > here the 4th).  And troops make up the troop (weird as you
 > want that to be).  Unless it's F Troop, then actors do,
 > though they too could be called a troop (acting troop).
 > But you also see "Troops" to mean the whole bunch, as
 > in ,"The troops in Iraq really have better things they
 > could be doing".
 >
 > Hertz is relatively new.  Old timers (like, umm, Jerry)
 > are bound to be more familiar with cycles per second.


I've said it before and I'll say it again: they should have named the
unit of frequency after an early AC pioneer, Charles Proteus Steinmetz.
Honoring him by using his initials would have been quite appropriate.

Jerry

P.S. http://www.invent.org/hall_of_fame/139.html He established AC power
distribution and lived see it displace Edison's DC system. He calculated
logarithms in his head. He claimed it was quicker than looking them up.
-- 
No man becomes a fool until he stops asking questions. .. C.P.Steinmetz
�����������������������������������������������������������������������

Richard Owlett wrote:
> 
> Not really ;)
> I think it more a case that English allows just about any phoneme at the 
> end of a singular noun. In general it expects an "s" at the end of a of 
> a plural noun. When borrowing from other languages anything may happen. 
> The "z" in Hertz is sufficiently close to "s" to be an acceptable 
> plural. Thus 1 Hertz or 100 Hertz.
> 

Not really. ;-)

We say cactuses, crocuses, buzzes, fizzes, hazes so why not Hertzes ?

Paul

"Jerry Avins" <jya@ieee.org> wrote in message 
news:41573f94$0$4051$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
> hel@40th.com wrote:
>
> >
> > Hertz is relatively new.  Old timers (like, umm, Jerry)
> > are bound to be more familiar with cycles per second.
>
>
> I've said it before and I'll say it again: they should have named the
> unit of frequency after an early AC pioneer, Charles Proteus Steinmetz.
> Honoring him by using his initials would have been quite appropriate.

Jerry,

You just picked the one (and only) case where we change the *units* label to 
match English.  The proper units is "cycles per second" as in 
0.9999999999999 cycles per second and 1.0000000001 cycles per second.  So, 
it's not unreasonable to say 1 cycles per second even though we say 1 cycle 
per second to be grammatically correct.  Hz=cycles per second and works.

It reminds me of this riddle:

Three men walked into a hotel looking for rooms.
The desk clerk told them there was only one room left and they could share 
it if they wished.  He told them it would be $30.
They took the room and each paid $10.
Later, the desk clerk decided he had overcharged them $5 total and gave $5 
to the bellhop to be returned to the 3 men.
The bellhop didn't know how to split $5 three ways so he pocketed $2 and 
gave the men $3.
The men have now paid $9 apiece.

3 time $9 is $27 plus the $2 the bellhop kept makes $29.  Where is the other 
dollar?

Fred