DSP programming in Atari days

=D1=81=D1=80=D0=B5=D0=B4=D0=B0, 29 =D0=B0=D0=B2=D0=B3=D1=83=D1=81=D1=82=D0=
=B0 2018 =D0=B3., 15:24:56 UTC+6 =D0=BF=D0=BE=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=B7=D0=BE=D0=B2=
=D0=B0=D1=82=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=8C Randy Yates =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=
=D0=B0=D0=BB:
> versa20@gmail.com writes:
>=20
> > On Wednesday, August 29, 2018 at 10:02:13 AM UTC+6, Steve Pope wrote:
> >> <versa20@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>=20
> >> >I'm new to DSP and programming, so I wonder how you guys did DSP
> >> >programming in Atari days back in 80's. How did you figure out to do =
it?
> >> >I guess education flow is something like that:=20
> >> >1) Learn Assembly language;=20
> >> >2) Get and learn Atari or IBM PC technical reference manuals;=20
> >> >3) Read some DSP books;=20
> >> >4) Start programming simple batch programs;=20
> >> >Am I right?=20
> >>=20
> >> That wasn't what it was like for me.
> >>=20
> >> The go-to component .. if your project could afford it, was the
> >> TRW 16-bit multiplier (later, multiplier-accumulator).  Another popula=
r
> >> component was the 2901 bit-slice.  Most requirements could be met
> >> by surrounding one or both of these with appropriate circuitry.
> >>=20
> >> Not much DSP was done on microprocessors, but projects did include
> >> devices such as 1802's or 6809's.  Intel processors were avoided due=
=20
> >> to their jittery execution times.
> >>=20
> >> Steve
> >
> > I mean software side of Digital Signal Processing (e.g. how to make
> > FFT, audio effect, etc), not hardware. And I would like to know
> > knowlegde flow.
> >
> > How did people get knowledge at that time? How did they understand how
> > to correctly write programs that made digital signal processing?
>=20
> For me, the first and foremost component was study. I took classes in
> mathematics, e.g., linear algebra - an FIR filter can be viewed as an
> inner product, probability theory, complex variables [complexvariables],
> applied math, stochastic processes, and engineering. One foundational
> class was based on [signalsandsystems], and that is where I learned
> about all the transforms, including Fourier, the DFT, the DTFT, and
> z-transforms. I also had courses in estimation [schwartz], adaptive
> filtering [widrow], Optimal Filters (Anderson and Moore), digital signal
> processing (Stanley), modern control systems [brogan], etc.
>=20
> Then I bought a PC (286) computer in the late 80s and wrote a few of my
> own routines, e.g., a signal plotter, noise generator, filter, FFT,
> using C. That was instructive. I remember modeling
>=20
> At least that's how it started for me. IOW, a helluva lot of work..
>=20
> @BOOK{complexvariables,
>   title =3D "{Complex Variables and Applications}",
>   author =3D "{Ruel~V.~Churchill, James~Ward~Brown}",
>   publisher =3D "McGraw-Hill",
>   edition =3D "fifth",
>   year =3D "1990"}
>=20
> @BOOK{signalsandsystems,
>   title =3D "{Signals and Systems}",
>   author =3D "{Alan~V.~Oppenheim, Alan~S.~Willsky, with Ian~T.~Young}",
>   publisher =3D "Prentice Hall",
>   year =3D "1983"}
>=20
> @book{schwartz,
>   title =3D "Signal Processing: Discrete Spectral Analysis, Detection, an=
d Estimation",
>   author =3D "{Mischa~Schwartz and Leonard~Shaw}",
>   publisher =3D "McGraw-Hill",
>   year =3D "1975"}
>=20
> @book{widrow,
>   title =3D "Adaptive Signal Processing",
>   author =3D "Bernard Widrow and Samuel D. Stearns",
>   publisher =3D "Prentice-Hall",
>   edition =3D "first",
>   year =3D "1985"}
>=20
> @book{brogan,
>   title =3D "Modern Control Theory",
>   author =3D "William L. Brogan",
>   publisher =3D "Prentice-Hall",
>   edition =3D "second",
>   year =3D "1985"}
>=20
> --=20
> Randy Yates, DSP/Embedded Firmware Developer
> Digital Signal Labs
> http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

Thank you! I see these books you mentioned is for understanding of DSP. But=
 what resources did you use to learn programming? Do manual were distribute=
d with computers? How these manuals were useful for learning programming?

Am 01.09.2018 um 10:23 schrieb gyansorova@gmail.com:
>> Can you please suggest some learning resources that were valuable back in a day? I was advised to start writing code for different platforms, so I inspired and wonder how dsp programming was done for Atari, IBM PC, etc.

> The theory has been known for a very long time. We only lacked the computing power.

May quite old 4*500MHz digital scope uses an 68020 for DSP operations 
like FFT. This is no much more power than an Atari. Of course, this CPU 
is far far away from operating at real time at 4*2GS/s. ;-)


Marcel

versa20@gmail.com writes:
> [...]
> Thank you! I see these books you mentioned is for understanding of
> DSP. But what resources did you use to learn programming? Do manual
> were distributed with computers? How these manuals were useful for
> learning programming?

I think I used K&R a good bit at first. Of course you need the
compiler/linker manual, which for me I believe was a Microsoft compiler.
The graphical bit was machine-specific but I was on a VGA device.

However, I suspect something is woefully wrong with your mental model of
the process. I spent 90 percent of my time learning the theory.
10 percent was used to program. Programming the algorithms is almost
trivial (at least for me).
-- 
Randy Yates, DSP/Embedded Firmware Developer
Digital Signal Labs
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

On Sunday, September 2, 2018 at 1:55:22 AM UTC+12, ver...@gmail.com wrote:
> =D1=81=D1=80=D0=B5=D0=B4=D0=B0, 29 =D0=B0=D0=B2=D0=B3=D1=83=D1=81=D1=82=
=D0=B0 2018 =D0=B3., 15:24:56 UTC+6 =D0=BF=D0=BE=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=B7=D0=BE=D0=
=B2=D0=B0=D1=82=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=8C Randy Yates =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=
=81=D0=B0=D0=BB:
> > versa20@gmail.com writes:
> >=20
> > > On Wednesday, August 29, 2018 at 10:02:13 AM UTC+6, Steve Pope wrote:
> > >> <versa20@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>=20
> > >> >I'm new to DSP and programming, so I wonder how you guys did DSP
> > >> >programming in Atari days back in 80's. How did you figure out to d=
o it?
> > >> >I guess education flow is something like that:=20
> > >> >1) Learn Assembly language;=20
> > >> >2) Get and learn Atari or IBM PC technical reference manuals;=20
> > >> >3) Read some DSP books;=20
> > >> >4) Start programming simple batch programs;=20
> > >> >Am I right?=20
> > >>=20
> > >> That wasn't what it was like for me.
> > >>=20
> > >> The go-to component .. if your project could afford it, was the
> > >> TRW 16-bit multiplier (later, multiplier-accumulator).  Another popu=
lar
> > >> component was the 2901 bit-slice.  Most requirements could be met
> > >> by surrounding one or both of these with appropriate circuitry.
> > >>=20
> > >> Not much DSP was done on microprocessors, but projects did include
> > >> devices such as 1802's or 6809's.  Intel processors were avoided due=
=20
> > >> to their jittery execution times.
> > >>=20
> > >> Steve
> > >
> > > I mean software side of Digital Signal Processing (e.g. how to make
> > > FFT, audio effect, etc), not hardware. And I would like to know
> > > knowlegde flow.
> > >
> > > How did people get knowledge at that time? How did they understand ho=
w
> > > to correctly write programs that made digital signal processing?
> >=20
> > For me, the first and foremost component was study. I took classes in
> > mathematics, e.g., linear algebra - an FIR filter can be viewed as an
> > inner product, probability theory, complex variables [complexvariables]=
,
> > applied math, stochastic processes, and engineering. One foundational
> > class was based on [signalsandsystems], and that is where I learned
> > about all the transforms, including Fourier, the DFT, the DTFT, and
> > z-transforms. I also had courses in estimation [schwartz], adaptive
> > filtering [widrow], Optimal Filters (Anderson and Moore), digital signa=
l
> > processing (Stanley), modern control systems [brogan], etc.
> >=20
> > Then I bought a PC (286) computer in the late 80s and wrote a few of my
> > own routines, e.g., a signal plotter, noise generator, filter, FFT,
> > using C. That was instructive. I remember modeling
> >=20
> > At least that's how it started for me. IOW, a helluva lot of work..
> >=20
> > @BOOK{complexvariables,
> >   title =3D "{Complex Variables and Applications}",
> >   author =3D "{Ruel~V.~Churchill, James~Ward~Brown}",
> >   publisher =3D "McGraw-Hill",
> >   edition =3D "fifth",
> >   year =3D "1990"}
> >=20
> > @BOOK{signalsandsystems,
> >   title =3D "{Signals and Systems}",
> >   author =3D "{Alan~V.~Oppenheim, Alan~S.~Willsky, with Ian~T.~Young}",
> >   publisher =3D "Prentice Hall",
> >   year =3D "1983"}
> >=20
> > @book{schwartz,
> >   title =3D "Signal Processing: Discrete Spectral Analysis, Detection, =
and Estimation",
> >   author =3D "{Mischa~Schwartz and Leonard~Shaw}",
> >   publisher =3D "McGraw-Hill",
> >   year =3D "1975"}
> >=20
> > @book{widrow,
> >   title =3D "Adaptive Signal Processing",
> >   author =3D "Bernard Widrow and Samuel D. Stearns",
> >   publisher =3D "Prentice-Hall",
> >   edition =3D "first",
> >   year =3D "1985"}
> >=20
> > @book{brogan,
> >   title =3D "Modern Control Theory",
> >   author =3D "William L. Brogan",
> >   publisher =3D "Prentice-Hall",
> >   edition =3D "second",
> >   year =3D "1985"}
> >=20
> > --=20
> > Randy Yates, DSP/Embedded Firmware Developer
> > Digital Signal Labs
> > http://www.digitalsignallabs.com
>=20
> Thank you! I see these books you mentioned is for understanding of DSP. B=
ut what resources did you use to learn programming? Do manual were distribu=
ted with computers? How these manuals were useful for learning programming?

We had books. K and Richie for C. Simulated in Fortran and had the NAG libr=
ary for the harder bits. graphics was more difficult but we had libraries f=
or basic graphs x-y on Techtronics displays

=D0=BF=D0=BE=D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=BD=D0=B8=D0=BA, 3 =D1=
=81=D0=B5=D0=BD=D1=82=D1=8F=D0=B1=D1=80=D1=8F 2018 =D0=B3., 5:48:31 UTC+6 =
=D0=BF=D0=BE=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=B7=D0=BE=D0=B2=D0=B0=D1=82=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=8C Ra=
ndy Yates =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB:
> versa20@gmail.com writes:
> > [...]
> > Thank you! I see these books you mentioned is for understanding of
> > DSP. But what resources did you use to learn programming? Do manual
> > were distributed with computers? How these manuals were useful for
> > learning programming?
>=20
> I think I used K&R a good bit at first. Of course you need the
> compiler/linker manual, which for me I believe was a Microsoft compiler.
> The graphical bit was machine-specific but I was on a VGA device.
>=20
> However, I suspect something is woefully wrong with your mental model of
> the process. I spent 90 percent of my time learning the theory.
> 10 percent was used to program. Programming the algorithms is almost
> trivial (at least for me).
> --=20
> Randy Yates, DSP/Embedded Firmware Developer
> Digital Signal Labs
> http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

Programming side seems most complicated for me than learning DSP theory. Ri=
gth now I've got info about which DSP book I need to read and now it looks =
less problem than "How to write working code?" type of problem.
I can get all theory (formulas, algorithms, etc) from these books, but I do=
n't know how to make software from it by using 68k Assembly

=D0=BF=D0=BE=D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=BD=D0=B8=D0=BA, 3 =D1=
=81=D0=B5=D0=BD=D1=82=D1=8F=D0=B1=D1=80=D1=8F 2018 =D0=B3., 5:51:44 UTC+6 =
=D0=BF=D0=BE=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=B7=D0=BE=D0=B2=D0=B0=D1=82=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=8C gy=
ans...@gmail.com =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB:
> On Sunday, September 2, 2018 at 1:55:22 AM UTC+12, ver...@gmail.com wrote=
:
> > =D1=81=D1=80=D0=B5=D0=B4=D0=B0, 29 =D0=B0=D0=B2=D0=B3=D1=83=D1=81=D1=82=
=D0=B0 2018 =D0=B3., 15:24:56 UTC+6 =D0=BF=D0=BE=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=B7=D0=BE=D0=
=B2=D0=B0=D1=82=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=8C Randy Yates =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=
=81=D0=B0=D0=BB:
> > > versa20@gmail.com writes:
> > >=20
> > > > On Wednesday, August 29, 2018 at 10:02:13 AM UTC+6, Steve Pope wrot=
e:
> > > >> <versa20@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>=20
> > > >> >I'm new to DSP and programming, so I wonder how you guys did DSP
> > > >> >programming in Atari days back in 80's. How did you figure out to=
 do it?
> > > >> >I guess education flow is something like that:=20
> > > >> >1) Learn Assembly language;=20
> > > >> >2) Get and learn Atari or IBM PC technical reference manuals;=20
> > > >> >3) Read some DSP books;=20
> > > >> >4) Start programming simple batch programs;=20
> > > >> >Am I right?=20
> > > >>=20
> > > >> That wasn't what it was like for me.
> > > >>=20
> > > >> The go-to component .. if your project could afford it, was the
> > > >> TRW 16-bit multiplier (later, multiplier-accumulator).  Another po=
pular
> > > >> component was the 2901 bit-slice.  Most requirements could be met
> > > >> by surrounding one or both of these with appropriate circuitry.
> > > >>=20
> > > >> Not much DSP was done on microprocessors, but projects did include
> > > >> devices such as 1802's or 6809's.  Intel processors were avoided d=
ue=20
> > > >> to their jittery execution times.
> > > >>=20
> > > >> Steve
> > > >
> > > > I mean software side of Digital Signal Processing (e.g. how to make
> > > > FFT, audio effect, etc), not hardware. And I would like to know
> > > > knowlegde flow.
> > > >
> > > > How did people get knowledge at that time? How did they understand =
how
> > > > to correctly write programs that made digital signal processing?
> > >=20
> > > For me, the first and foremost component was study. I took classes in
> > > mathematics, e.g., linear algebra - an FIR filter can be viewed as an
> > > inner product, probability theory, complex variables [complexvariable=
s],
> > > applied math, stochastic processes, and engineering. One foundational
> > > class was based on [signalsandsystems], and that is where I learned
> > > about all the transforms, including Fourier, the DFT, the DTFT, and
> > > z-transforms. I also had courses in estimation [schwartz], adaptive
> > > filtering [widrow], Optimal Filters (Anderson and Moore), digital sig=
nal
> > > processing (Stanley), modern control systems [brogan], etc.
> > >=20
> > > Then I bought a PC (286) computer in the late 80s and wrote a few of =
my
> > > own routines, e.g., a signal plotter, noise generator, filter, FFT,
> > > using C. That was instructive. I remember modeling
> > >=20
> > > At least that's how it started for me. IOW, a helluva lot of work..
> > >=20
> > > @BOOK{complexvariables,
> > >   title =3D "{Complex Variables and Applications}",
> > >   author =3D "{Ruel~V.~Churchill, James~Ward~Brown}",
> > >   publisher =3D "McGraw-Hill",
> > >   edition =3D "fifth",
> > >   year =3D "1990"}
> > >=20
> > > @BOOK{signalsandsystems,
> > >   title =3D "{Signals and Systems}",
> > >   author =3D "{Alan~V.~Oppenheim, Alan~S.~Willsky, with Ian~T.~Young}=
",
> > >   publisher =3D "Prentice Hall",
> > >   year =3D "1983"}
> > >=20
> > > @book{schwartz,
> > >   title =3D "Signal Processing: Discrete Spectral Analysis, Detection=
, and Estimation",
> > >   author =3D "{Mischa~Schwartz and Leonard~Shaw}",
> > >   publisher =3D "McGraw-Hill",
> > >   year =3D "1975"}
> > >=20
> > > @book{widrow,
> > >   title =3D "Adaptive Signal Processing",
> > >   author =3D "Bernard Widrow and Samuel D. Stearns",
> > >   publisher =3D "Prentice-Hall",
> > >   edition =3D "first",
> > >   year =3D "1985"}
> > >=20
> > > @book{brogan,
> > >   title =3D "Modern Control Theory",
> > >   author =3D "William L. Brogan",
> > >   publisher =3D "Prentice-Hall",
> > >   edition =3D "second",
> > >   year =3D "1985"}
> > >=20
> > > --=20
> > > Randy Yates, DSP/Embedded Firmware Developer
> > > Digital Signal Labs
> > > http://www.digitalsignallabs.com
> >=20
> > Thank you! I see these books you mentioned is for understanding of DSP.=
 But what resources did you use to learn programming? Do manual were distri=
buted with computers? How these manuals were useful for learning programmin=
g?
>=20
> We had books. K and Richie for C. Simulated in Fortran and had the NAG li=
brary for the harder bits. graphics was more difficult but we had libraries=
 for basic graphs x-y on Techtronics displays

I don't know Assembly language and right now I interested in how to learn a=
ssembly programming. Does Hisoft Devpac manual is the most valuable resourc=
e for that task? Or I need specific book/manual?

<versa20@gmail.com> wrote:

>Programming side seems most complicated for me than learning DSP theory.
>Rigth now I've got info about which DSP book I need to read and now it
>looks less problem than "How to write working code?" type of problem.
>I can get all theory (formulas, algorithms, etc) from these books, but I
>don't know how to make software from it by using 68k Assembly

You do not need to write 68K assembly, but as assembly languages go
it's a pretty straightforward experience.

I think you should start with K&R C.  I was given two weeks to
learn C, whereas I've spent decades learning DSP algorithms.

If your target is a 68K -- I've used them extensively -- you
will have to write maybe a hundred lines of assembly to create
a system that then runs code that is compiled from C.  Easy-peasy.

But today, I'm not sure why anyone would use a 68K instead of
say a Raspberry Pi.  (Maybe some low-power requirement? Or simply
nostalgia?)

Steve

On Sun, 2 Sep 2018 20:37:52 -0700 (PDT), versa20@gmail.com wrote:

>=D0=BF=D0=BE=D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=BD=D0=B8=D0=BA, 3 =D1=
>=81=D0=B5=D0=BD=D1=82=D1=8F=D0=B1=D1=80=D1=8F 2018 =D0=B3., 5:51:44 UTC+6 =
>=D0=BF=D0=BE=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=B7=D0=BE=D0=B2=D0=B0=D1=82=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=8C gy=
>ans...@gmail.com =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB:
>> On Sunday, September 2, 2018 at 1:55:22 AM UTC+12, ver...@gmail.com wrote=
>:
>> > =D1=81=D1=80=D0=B5=D0=B4=D0=B0, 29 =D0=B0=D0=B2=D0=B3=D1=83=D1=81=D1=82=
>=D0=B0 2018 =D0=B3., 15:24:56 UTC+6 =D0=BF=D0=BE=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=B7=D0=BE=D0=
>=B2=D0=B0=D1=82=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=8C Randy Yates =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=
>=81=D0=B0=D0=BB:
>> > > versa20@gmail.com writes:
>> > >=20
>> > > > On Wednesday, August 29, 2018 at 10:02:13 AM UTC+6, Steve Pope wrot=
>e:
>> > > >> <versa20@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > >>=20
>> > > >> >I'm new to DSP and programming, so I wonder how you guys did DSP
>> > > >> >programming in Atari days back in 80's. How did you figure out to=
> do it?
>> > > >> >I guess education flow is something like that:=20
>> > > >> >1) Learn Assembly language;=20
>> > > >> >2) Get and learn Atari or IBM PC technical reference manuals;=20
>> > > >> >3) Read some DSP books;=20
>> > > >> >4) Start programming simple batch programs;=20
>> > > >> >Am I right?=20
>> > > >>=20
>> > > >> That wasn't what it was like for me.
>> > > >>=20
>> > > >> The go-to component .. if your project could afford it, was the
>> > > >> TRW 16-bit multiplier (later, multiplier-accumulator).  Another po=
>pular
>> > > >> component was the 2901 bit-slice.  Most requirements could be met
>> > > >> by surrounding one or both of these with appropriate circuitry.
>> > > >>=20
>> > > >> Not much DSP was done on microprocessors, but projects did include
>> > > >> devices such as 1802's or 6809's.  Intel processors were avoided d=
>ue=20
>> > > >> to their jittery execution times.
>> > > >>=20
>> > > >> Steve
>> > > >
>> > > > I mean software side of Digital Signal Processing (e.g. how to make
>> > > > FFT, audio effect, etc), not hardware. And I would like to know
>> > > > knowlegde flow.
>> > > >
>> > > > How did people get knowledge at that time? How did they understand =
>how
>> > > > to correctly write programs that made digital signal processing?
>> > >=20
>> > > For me, the first and foremost component was study. I took classes in
>> > > mathematics, e.g., linear algebra - an FIR filter can be viewed as an
>> > > inner product, probability theory, complex variables [complexvariable=
>s],
>> > > applied math, stochastic processes, and engineering. One foundational
>> > > class was based on [signalsandsystems], and that is where I learned
>> > > about all the transforms, including Fourier, the DFT, the DTFT, and
>> > > z-transforms. I also had courses in estimation [schwartz], adaptive
>> > > filtering [widrow], Optimal Filters (Anderson and Moore), digital sig=
>nal
>> > > processing (Stanley), modern control systems [brogan], etc.
>> > >=20
>> > > Then I bought a PC (286) computer in the late 80s and wrote a few of =
>my
>> > > own routines, e.g., a signal plotter, noise generator, filter, FFT,
>> > > using C. That was instructive. I remember modeling
>> > >=20
>> > > At least that's how it started for me. IOW, a helluva lot of work..
>> > >=20
>> > > @BOOK{complexvariables,
>> > >   title =3D "{Complex Variables and Applications}",
>> > >   author =3D "{Ruel~V.~Churchill, James~Ward~Brown}",
>> > >   publisher =3D "McGraw-Hill",
>> > >   edition =3D "fifth",
>> > >   year =3D "1990"}
>> > >=20
>> > > @BOOK{signalsandsystems,
>> > >   title =3D "{Signals and Systems}",
>> > >   author =3D "{Alan~V.~Oppenheim, Alan~S.~Willsky, with Ian~T.~Young}=
>",
>> > >   publisher =3D "Prentice Hall",
>> > >   year =3D "1983"}
>> > >=20
>> > > @book{schwartz,
>> > >   title =3D "Signal Processing: Discrete Spectral Analysis, Detection=
>, and Estimation",
>> > >   author =3D "{Mischa~Schwartz and Leonard~Shaw}",
>> > >   publisher =3D "McGraw-Hill",
>> > >   year =3D "1975"}
>> > >=20
>> > > @book{widrow,
>> > >   title =3D "Adaptive Signal Processing",
>> > >   author =3D "Bernard Widrow and Samuel D. Stearns",
>> > >   publisher =3D "Prentice-Hall",
>> > >   edition =3D "first",
>> > >   year =3D "1985"}
>> > >=20
>> > > @book{brogan,
>> > >   title =3D "Modern Control Theory",
>> > >   author =3D "William L. Brogan",
>> > >   publisher =3D "Prentice-Hall",
>> > >   edition =3D "second",
>> > >   year =3D "1985"}
>> > >=20
>> > > --=20
>> > > Randy Yates, DSP/Embedded Firmware Developer
>> > > Digital Signal Labs
>> > > http://www.digitalsignallabs.com
>> >=20
>> > Thank you! I see these books you mentioned is for understanding of DSP.=
> But what resources did you use to learn programming? Do manual were distri=
>buted with computers? How these manuals were useful for learning programmin=
>g?
>>=20
>> We had books. K and Richie for C. Simulated in Fortran and had the NAG li=
>brary for the harder bits. graphics was more difficult but we had libraries=
> for basic graphs x-y on Techtronics displays
>
>I don't know Assembly language and right now I interested in how to learn a=
>ssembly programming. Does Hisoft Devpac manual is the most valuable resourc=
>e for that task? Or I need specific book/manual?

I can see asking DSP questions here, but why are you asking
programming questions for a specific processor here?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=learn+68000+assembly+language

I think DSP and programming are the most related things. I think somebody w=
ould like to expose some memories and personal expirience about Assembly an=
d DSP programming in 68k Assembly.
Google can't help with it besides some new and modern sites and articles. I=
'm very interested in other people expirience and I think I've got some gli=
mpse right now, but it's still interesting though. Since this is the only w=
ay to learn how things evolve and develop in time.

versa20@gmail.com writes:

> понедельник, 3 сентября 2018 г., 5:48:31 UTC+6 пользователь Randy Yates написал:
>> versa20@gmail.com writes:
>> > [...]
>> > Thank you! I see these books you mentioned is for understanding of
>> > DSP. But what resources did you use to learn programming? Do manual
>> > were distributed with computers? How these manuals were useful for
>> > learning programming?
>> 
>> I think I used K&R a good bit at first. Of course you need the
>> compiler/linker manual, which for me I believe was a Microsoft compiler.
>> The graphical bit was machine-specific but I was on a VGA device.
>> 
>> However, I suspect something is woefully wrong with your mental model of
>> the process. I spent 90 percent of my time learning the theory.
>> 10 percent was used to program. Programming the algorithms is almost
>> trivial (at least for me).
>> -- 
>> Randy Yates, DSP/Embedded Firmware Developer
>> Digital Signal Labs
>> http://www.digitalsignallabs.com
>
> Programming side seems most complicated for me than learning DSP
> theory. Rigth now I've got info about which DSP book I need to read
> and now it looks less problem than "How to write working code?" type
> of problem.
> I can get all theory (formulas, algorithms, etc) from these books, but I don't know how to make software from it by using 68k Assembly

Try opening that DSP book and reading it. With understanding. Work the
problems. 

See if you have the mathematical foundations on which DSP is based, like
algebra, calculus, complex variables, probability theory, etc. Make sure
you know Fourier transforms, Laplace transforms, Discrete-Time Fourier
Transforms, the DFT, z-transforms, the Goertzel algorithm, etc. Some
knowledge of sequences and series would also be helpful. Oh yeah, you
know how to handle Dirac delta functions?

What you seem to think is going to take, oh, a few days, takes most
engineering students (including myself in my younger days) years of
study to get through.

But perhaps you are a genius... 

And I'm with Eric - can you tell us why you're hung up on 68k assembly?
You do realize how old that processor is, right (30-40 years)? Most
processors within the last 20 years would kick the crap out of a
68k with sheer MIPS, L1/L2 cache, etc. There are also newer processors
made for the purpose such as TI's TMS320C55x, 6xxx, etc. 
-- 
Randy Yates, DSP/Embedded Firmware Developer
Digital Signal Labs
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com