Compress/Decompress Wave file to MP3 and vice versa

Hello. Sorry to disturb you all. I hope to get your opinion. For your
information, I have a Visual C++ 6.0 software to record and playback
human speech. All the speech is recorded with sampling rate of 16kHz in
wave file format. Each wave file size is 188kbytes. I have 20 wave
files in each practice or each usage of software. And, I need to save
all these 20 wave files into a single floppy disk (1.44 Mbytes).

Total size of 20 wave files = 20*188k = 3,760,000 bytes
Total floppy disk needed = (3,760,000)/1,440,000 = 2.6 floppy disks
But, I must save all the 20 wave files into a single floppy disk

I hope it can work like this: save the data as a wave file in the
temporary directory and then convert wave file to MP3 file in your
floppy disk. To load a file, convert the mp3 file to wave file in the
temporary directory and then load the wave file to the memory.
Can this method enable me to save all 20 wave files in a single floppy
disk?

I don't know how to insert the encoding/decoding program codes into
my current software without causing any new bugs.

Or, other than the MP3 compression method, do you have another method
or idea of minimizing the size of each wave file? Please tell me.

Hope to hear you soon, thanks.

<space.oca@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1145261306.489910.204460@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> Hello. Sorry to disturb you all. I hope to get your opinion. For your
> information, I have a Visual C++ 6.0 software to record and playback
> human speech. All the speech is recorded with sampling rate of 16kHz in
> wave file format. Each wave file size is 188kbytes. I have 20 wave
> files in each practice or each usage of software. And, I need to save
> all these 20 wave files into a single floppy disk (1.44 Mbytes).
>
> Total size of 20 wave files = 20*188k = 3,760,000 bytes
> Total floppy disk needed = (3,760,000)/1,440,000 = 2.6 floppy disks
> But, I must save all the 20 wave files into a single floppy disk
>
> I hope it can work like this: save the data as a wave file in the
> temporary directory and then convert wave file to MP3 file in your
> floppy disk. To load a file, convert the mp3 file to wave file in the
> temporary directory and then load the wave file to the memory.
> Can this method enable me to save all 20 wave files in a single floppy
> disk?
>
> I don't know how to insert the encoding/decoding program codes into
> my current software without causing any new bugs.
>
> Or, other than the MP3 compression method, do you have another method
> or idea of minimizing the size of each wave file? Please tell me.
>
> Hope to hear you soon, thanks.
>

What is the size of the data samples stored in the .wav file? If it is
16-bit you can cut the size in half by converting to mu-law 8-bit samples.
Also, you only need an 8kHz sample rate for speech. This means you can store
1,440,000*8/(8*8,000) = 180 seconds on one floppy. Try a google of "convert
.wav to mu-law" to find software that will do the conversion.

If you convert to .mp3 you can probably use a 16kbps code rate. This means
you can store 1,440,000*8/16,000 = 720 seconds of sound on one floppy.
Search for lame encoder to find open source software to playback mp3s.

-Clark

Not a reply to your query - but a request. is it possible you can share
the VC++ project including the code for this? i am trying to learn to
do (in particular the access to the sound card/device) this. thanks.
regards, srini.

<space.oca@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1145261306.489910.204460@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> Hello. Sorry to disturb you all. I hope to get your opinion. For your
> information, I have a Visual C++ 6.0 software to record and playback
> human speech. All the speech is recorded with sampling rate of 16kHz in
> wave file format. Each wave file size is 188kbytes. I have 20 wave
> files in each practice or each usage of software. And, I need to save
> all these 20 wave files into a single floppy disk (1.44 Mbytes).
>
> Total size of 20 wave files = 20*188k = 3,760,000 bytes
> Total floppy disk needed = (3,760,000)/1,440,000 = 2.6 floppy disks
> But, I must save all the 20 wave files into a single floppy disk
>
> I hope it can work like this: save the data as a wave file in the
> temporary directory and then convert wave file to MP3 file in your
> floppy disk. To load a file, convert the mp3 file to wave file in the
> temporary directory and then load the wave file to the memory.
> Can this method enable me to save all 20 wave files in a single floppy
> disk?
>
> I don't know how to insert the encoding/decoding program codes into
> my current software without causing any new bugs.
>
> Or, other than the MP3 compression method, do you have another method
> or idea of minimizing the size of each wave file? Please tell me.
>
> Hope to hear you soon, thanks.
>

Have you tried to zip all of the files together? The result may just fit on 
your floppy.

One variant of the .wav format actually allows for ADPCM - maybe this will 
compress the files enough for you.

Clay

space.oca@gmail.com wrote:
> Hello. Sorry to disturb you all. I hope to get your opinion. For your
> information, I have a Visual C++ 6.0 software to record and playback
> human speech. All the speech is recorded with sampling rate of 16kHz in
> wave file format. Each wave file size is 188kbytes. I have 20 wave
> files in each practice or each usage of software. And, I need to save
> all these 20 wave files into a single floppy disk (1.44 Mbytes).
> 
> Total size of 20 wave files = 20*188k = 3,760,000 bytes
> Total floppy disk needed = (3,760,000)/1,440,000 = 2.6 floppy disks
> But, I must save all the 20 wave files into a single floppy disk
> 
> I hope it can work like this: save the data as a wave file in the
> temporary directory and then convert wave file to MP3 file in your
> floppy disk. To load a file, convert the mp3 file to wave file in the
> temporary directory and then load the wave file to the memory.
> Can this method enable me to save all 20 wave files in a single floppy
> disk?
> 
> I don't know how to insert the encoding/decoding program codes into
> my current software without causing any new bugs.
> 
> Or, other than the MP3 compression method, do you have another method
> or idea of minimizing the size of each wave file? Please tell me.
> 
> Hope to hear you soon, thanks.

This must be some sort of class assignment. I've had an extended email 
conversation on the same subject. Zipping the file is out because 
third-party software is nominally disallowed (but what about an MP3 
encoder?). I suspect that it is a puzzle whose key is a remark the 
instructor made at some point.

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
�����������������������������������������������������������������������

~~~*Conversation log*~~~

Mr. Jerry Avins,
Hello. Sorry to disturb you again. I hope to get your opinion. For your 
information, I have developed a Visual C++ 6.0 software to record and 
playback human speech. All the speech is recorded with sampling rate of 
16kHz in wave file format. Each wave file size is 188kbytes. I have 20 
wave files in each practice or each usage of software. And, I need to 
save all these 20 wave files into a single floppy disk (1.44 Mbytes).
Total size of 20 wave files = 20*188k = 3,760,000 bytes
Total floppy disk needed = (3,760,000)/1,440,000 = 2.6 floppy disks
But, I must save all the 20 wave files into a single floppy disk, what 
methods should I use?
Can I maintain the wave file format during the recording/playing during 
the usage of software, and change the wave files into MP3 file format 
when I want to save these files into floppy disk?
It is called MP3 compression method, right? But, I don’t know where to 
obtain the encoding/decoding source codes. I don’t know how to insert 
the encoding/decoding program codes into my current software. Can you 
help me? Can you please tell me what should I do?
Or, other than the MP3 compression method, do you have another method or 
idea of minimizing the size of each wave file? Please tell me.
Hope to hear you soon, thanks


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Isabella,

By asking me, you limit yourself to my knowledge alone. If you ask in a 
newsgroup, you would receive the benefit of everyone's knowledge. You 
seem to want lossless compression (i.e. compression that allows exact 
reconstruction); MP3 doesn't allow that.

Compression will certainly fit your files on two disks, with room to 
spare for a decompression program. Fitting them on only one may be 
possible, but it isn't clear to me that you can. Your question is really 
about lossless data compression. If you use MAC OS or Windows, a common 
file compression format is zip. (Also, on the MAC, stuffit). On Linux or 
Unix, it is gzip or tar. Utilities for those formats are available for 
both platforms. Whether one of those will compress enough for you isn't 
clear; the degree of compression that can be achieved depends on the 
data being compressed. Windows can unzip zipped files.

Win-Zip has what is supposed to be a friendly user interface. It is 
available for free trial. http://www.winzip.com/

I use an old version of PKZIP, a DOS command-line program because I have 
it. They offer a free ZIP reader you can load onto the computer that 
will need to unzip your floppy.

You can get free zip/unzip programs from http://www.7-zip.org/ (claims 
high compression ratio) and many other links you will find at 
http://www.google.com/search?&q=zip+utility

Gzip uses its own format and might possibly compress more. 
http://www.gzip.org/

There a few tricks you can use if compression nearly but not quite succeeds.
1. Since your files have the same length and recording properties, they 
have identical headers. You can strip all the headers and send one copy 
of it and the headerless files, then attach the header at the receiving 
end. You might save some tens of bytes that way.
2. Be sure to compress your files as a single "archive". That is more 
compact than compressing the files separately.

Jerry

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mr. Jerry Avins,

Thank you very much for your reply, I appreciate. I cant use third party 
software as I need to have the compression algoritms inside my software 
itself. I am now using 16kHz as sampling rate. Even if I change to 8kHz, 
the size only reduced by half. But, in order to have all 20 wave files 
saved into a single floppy disk, I must have at least 62% size reduction 
of 188kB.

I cant use 8 bits. My software works by measuring human speech's 
magnitude (energy) and give some scoring based on the  voice magnitude. 
If I use 8 bits, I guess the magnitude measurement will be affected a 
lot, isnt it?

I guess I can use lossy compression method as my software need to 
measure human voice magnitude of whole sentence and not measuring the 
syllable by syllable.

Please correct me if I am wrong and hope to have your suggestion of what 
methods or approaches I can use. Hope to hear you. Thank you.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Isabella,

It seems to me that you are laboring under artificial constraints that 
may be designed to force you to a solution hinted at by whoever imposed 
those constraints, about which I can have no ideas. PKzip was standard 
compression back when the smallest floppies were 5-1/4"; every Windows 
program since 2000 has unzip capability in the operating system. Most 
computers nowadays can read and write CDs; they hold 650 megabytes. I 
think you've been given a puzzle to solve, not a real problem. I'm not 
particularly interested.

Jerry

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mr. Jerry Avins,

I hope it can work like this: It would work like this: save the data as 
a wave file in the tempory directory and then convert wave file to MP3 
file in your floppy disk. To load a file, convert the mp3 file to wave 
file in the tempory directory and then load the wave file to the memory.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Isabella,

... Will you write the software to convert wave to MP3 and back? If not, 
why is third-party MP3 software more kosher than third-party ZIP 
software? Who laid these ridiculous constraints on you, anyway?

Jerry

space.oca@gmail.com wrote:
> Hello. Sorry to disturb you all. I hope to get your opinion. For your
> information, I have a Visual C++ 6.0 software to record and playback
> human speech. All the speech is recorded with sampling rate of 16kHz in
> wave file format. Each wave file size is 188kbytes. I have 20 wave
> files in each practice or each usage of software. And, I need to save
> all these 20 wave files into a single floppy disk (1.44 Mbytes).

You haven't made clear your purpose in saving these 20 wave files.  If
it is to exactly reconstitute them again, then IMHO there's no way to
do this.  If your purpose is to get back 20 wave files that "sound
like" the originals, then MP3 compression may well do what you need.

My point is that some compression methods are lossless and some
introduce data loss to the signal -- it may be an acceptable loss, but
it's a loss nonetheless.

cheers,
  jerry

space.oca@gmail.com wrote:

> Hello. Sorry to disturb you all. I hope to get your opinion. For your
> information, I have a Visual C++ 6.0 software to record and playback
> human speech. All the speech is recorded with sampling rate of 16kHz in
> wave file format. Each wave file size is 188kbytes. I have 20 wave
> files in each practice or each usage of software. And, I need to save
> all these 20 wave files into a single floppy disk (1.44 Mbytes).
> 
> Total size of 20 wave files = 20*188k = 3,760,000 bytes
> Total floppy disk needed = (3,760,000)/1,440,000 = 2.6 floppy disks
> But, I must save all the 20 wave files into a single floppy disk
> 
> I hope it can work like this: save the data as a wave file in the
> temporary directory and then convert wave file to MP3 file in your
> floppy disk. To load a file, convert the mp3 file to wave file in the
> temporary directory and then load the wave file to the memory.
> Can this method enable me to save all 20 wave files in a single floppy
> disk?
> 
> I don't know how to insert the encoding/decoding program codes into
> my current software without causing any new bugs.
> 
> Or, other than the MP3 compression method, do you have another method
> or idea of minimizing the size of each wave file? Please tell me.
> 
> Hope to hear you soon, thanks.
> 
Hi there,

If this is indeed a class assignment then I would say that ADPCM is 
probably your answer.  It seems to me that the factor of 2.6 is quite 
telling.  If it were 2.0 the solution would be simple, use 8 bit 
differences giving you a ratio 2:1.  As it is you could use 6 bit 
differences which would *just* be enough (2.67:1 maybe this is what you 
are *meant* to do?) but a slight pain to implement (faffing around with 
bit manipulation), use straight 4 bit which remembering back to when I 
did the same thing for a class assignment sounded rubbish, or use 4 bit 
ADPCM, which will sound fine.

Richard

Anonymous wrote:
> <space.oca@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1145261306.489910.204460@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> > Hello. Sorry to disturb you all. I hope to get your opinion. For your
> > information, I have a Visual C++ 6.0 software to record and playback
> > human speech. All the speech is recorded with sampling rate of 16kHz in
> > wave file format. Each wave file size is 188kbytes. I have 20 wave
> > files in each practice or each usage of software. And, I need to save
> > all these 20 wave files into a single floppy disk (1.44 Mbytes).
> >
> > Total size of 20 wave files = 20*188k = 3,760,000 bytes
> > Total floppy disk needed = (3,760,000)/1,440,000 = 2.6 floppy disks
> > But, I must save all the 20 wave files into a single floppy disk
> >
> > I hope it can work like this: save the data as a wave file in the
> > temporary directory and then convert wave file to MP3 file in your
> > floppy disk. To load a file, convert the mp3 file to wave file in the
> > temporary directory and then load the wave file to the memory.
> > Can this method enable me to save all 20 wave files in a single floppy
> > disk?
> >
> > I don't know how to insert the encoding/decoding program codes into
> > my current software without causing any new bugs.
> >
> > Or, other than the MP3 compression method, do you have another method
> > or idea of minimizing the size of each wave file? Please tell me.
> >
> > Hope to hear you soon, thanks.
> >
>
> What is the size of the data samples stored in the .wav file? If it is
> 16-bit you can cut the size in half by converting to mu-law 8-bit samples.
> Also, you only need an 8kHz sample rate for speech. This means you can store
> 1,440,000*8/(8*8,000) = 180 seconds on one floppy. Try a google of "convert
> .wav to mu-law" to find software that will do the conversion.
>
> If you convert to .mp3 you can probably use a 16kbps code rate. This means
> you can store 1,440,000*8/16,000 = 720 seconds of sound on one floppy.
> Search for lame encoder to find open source software to playback mp3s.
>
> -Clark

Clark,

Thank you for your reply, appreciate.
If I reduce sampling rate from 16k to 8k, I will reduce 50% size but I
need at least 62% reduction in order to save all 20 files in a single
floppy disk.
Reducing bits from 16 to 8, I am afraid that this will influence alots
of the quality issue.
I have searched the lame encoder source code but I dont know how to
implement it into my current software? Can you please give me some
guidance? Please help, please.

Hi, Mr Clay.
Yes, I have tried to zip it before and the WinZip reduced each wave
file from 188k to 91k. But I need at least more than 62% in order to
reach purpose.
Sorry, I dont understand what you mean by "ADPCM - maybe this will
compress the files enough for you. ", hope you dont mind to elaborate.
thanks a lot

Hi, Mr Jerry Avin, thank you for your reply.
Can you elaborate more on how to incorporate 'MP3 encoder" into other
part of software? Thanks