hi everyone i'm gonna build a car that moves according to a light, ig the light is getting close the car moves backwards, if the light is going away the car follow it. The speed of the car will depend of the rate of change of the light's intensity. If the light intensity is changing slowly the car will move slow if the light is changing fast the car will move fast. I understand that for the rate of change of the light i need to use a derivative. i'm going to use a microcontroller to implement this project but i don't know how to calculate the derivative, somebodytold me that i needed to use a "discrete-time filter" and i started to investigate, and everything points to the use od the z transform, but i don't get yet why i need to use the z transform, i have less than 2 weeks to finish this project which is about electronics, so i cannot invest so much time in maths investigation. so i need a little help. could somebody tell me in which way the z tranform is of use for me? thanks in advance

# using z transform for a discrete time filter

Started by ●May 15, 2006

Reply by ●May 15, 20062006-05-15

zyd wrote:> hi everyone i'm gonna build a car that moves according to a light, ig the > light is getting close the car moves backwards, if the light is going away > the car follow it. The speed of the car will depend of the rate of change > of the light's intensity. If the light intensity is changing slowly the > car will move slow if the light is changing fast the car will move fast. > I understand that for the rate of change of the light i need to use a > derivative. i'm going to use a microcontroller to implement this project > but i don't know how to calculate the derivative, somebodytold me that i > needed to use a "discrete-time filter" and i started to investigate, and > everything points to the use od the z transform, but i don't get yet why i > need to use the z transform, i have less than 2 weeks to finish this > project which is about electronics, so i cannot invest so much time in > maths investigation. so i need a little help. > could somebody tell me in which way the z tranform is of use for me? > thanks in advanceCalculations of the derivative involve the use of forward and or backward differences, which is the difference between to successive samples. These differences can also be expressed in terms of the Z transform since z^-1 is an operator that represents a delay of one and z^1 is an advance of one. The accuracy of the calculated derivative is related to the order of the model. In this instance a first order would be the difference of two samples and second order would incorpate the difference of the first differences, and so on. Of course, the higher the order the more involved calculations become. In a real time system with some form of feedback the control loop will usually counteract the error in the math so that it isn't ncessary to use high order calculations. I would highly suggest the book Math toolkit for real time programming by Jack Crenshaw for you. In this book, he develops the mathematics necessary for calculating various functions, inlcuding derivates and relates them to the Z transform. The book also provides example code in C that demonstrates these principles. The code is very concise and easilly adapted to an application. If you can't find the book or obtain it in time, I would suggest trying to find some of his articles on line as there is likely one that deals with calculating the derivative. The end of the book also deals with close loop control systems in real time, based upon the techniques described in the rest of the book. I mention this because it may be very applicable to your design.

Reply by ●May 15, 20062006-05-15

On Mon, 15 May 2006 07:43:16 -0500, "zyd" <lr3web@hotmail.com> wrote:>hi everyone i'm gonna build a car that moves according to a light, ig the >light is getting close the car moves backwards, if the light is going away >the car follow it. The speed of the car will depend of the rate of change >of the light's intensity. If the light intensity is changing slowly the >car will move slow if the light is changing fast the car will move fast. >I understand that for the rate of change of the light i need to use a >derivative. i'm going to use a microcontroller to implement this project >but i don't know how to calculate the derivative, somebodytold me that i >needed to use a "discrete-time filter" and i started to investigate, and >everything points to the use od the z transform, but i don't get yet why i >need to use the z transform, i have less than 2 weeks to finish this >project which is about electronics, so i cannot invest so much time in >maths investigation. so i need a little help. >could somebody tell me in which way the z tranform is of use for me? >thanks in advanceHi zyd, without going into all the math, I suggest you use one of the following: y(n) = x(n) - x(n-1) [1] or y(n) = [x(n) - x(n-2)]/2 [2] [Sequence y(n) is the approx derivative of sequence x(n).] Method [2] will have reduced high-frequency noise in y(n) compared to method [1]. Both methods [1] & [2] *only* provide accurate results if your x(n) signal has a positive-freq bandwidth of no greater than 1/10 of the Fs signal sample rate. (That's because these differentiators are so computationally simple. If ya need to differentiate a signal whose one-sided bandwidth is wider than Fs/10, then you'll need someone to design a "tapped-delay line" differentiator that will require 10-20 (maybe more depending on signal bandwidth) taps. You can search the Internet for "FIR differentiators" to learn more. Your problem is fairly simple to solve, so if ya' need more help, ask more questions. Good Luck, [-Rick-]

Reply by ●May 15, 20062006-05-15

zyd wrote:> hi everyone i'm gonna build a car that moves according to a light, ig the > light is getting close the car moves backwards, if the light is going away > the car follow it. The speed of the car will depend of the rate of change > of the light's intensity. If the light intensity is changing slowly the > car will move slow if the light is changing fast the car will move fast. > I understand that for the rate of change of the light i need to use a > derivative. i'm going to use a microcontroller to implement this project > but i don't know how to calculate the derivative, somebodytold me that i > needed to use a "discrete-time filter" and i started to investigate, and > everything points to the use od the z transform, but i don't get yet why i > need to use the z transform, i have less than 2 weeks to finish this > project which is about electronics, so i cannot invest so much time in > maths investigation. so i need a little help. > could somebody tell me in which way the z tranform is of use for me? > thanks in advance > > >http://www.wescottdesign.com/articles/zTransform/z-transforms.html should be a quick read. As Rick pointed out you can get away without using z transforms. If you want to actually analyze the system behavior first, however, you'll need them. Once you get past differentiation you may also want to read the article pointed to by http://www.wescottdesign.com/articles/pidwophd.html -- it'll tell you how to actually write your controller. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com Posting from Google? See http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/ "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" came out in April. See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

Reply by ●May 15, 20062006-05-15