Rune vs Meteorite?

I saw this on the web today:
http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1346411.ece

A meteorite struck northern Norway Wednesday. The article talks about 
seismographs picking it up, so I wonder if Rune has a take on all this.

-- 
Jim Thomas            Principal Applications Engineer  Bittware, Inc
jthomas@bittware.com  http://www.bittware.com    (603) 226-0404 x536
Hope springs occasionally.

Jim Thomas skrev:
> I saw this on the web today:
> http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1346411.ece
>
> A meteorite struck northern Norway Wednesday. The article talks about
> seismographs picking it up, so I wonder if Rune has a take on all this.

I only know it from the press reports. I don't know if it is much hope
of
finding the object. The area is vast and sparsely populated, so there
are few people around to watch for the crater. The ground is mostly
bedrock covered by at most a couple of meters of humus and maybe
some thicker layers of gravel here and there. If one has a general
position
fix from seismometers, then maybe one can narrow down the search
enough to find the object, if not...

Rune

Rune Allnor skrev:
> Jim Thomas skrev:
> > I saw this on the web today:
> > http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1346411.ece
> >
> > A meteorite struck northern Norway Wednesday. The article talks about
> > seismographs picking it up, so I wonder if Rune has a take on all this.
>
> I only know it from the press reports. I don't know if it is much hope
> of
> finding the object. The area is vast and sparsely populated, so there
> are few people around to watch for the crater. The ground is mostly
> bedrock covered by at most a couple of meters of humus and maybe
> some thicker layers of gravel here and there. If one has a general
> position
> fix from seismometers, then maybe one can narrow down the search
> enough to find the object, if not...
>
> Rune

I just checked around. Here is a page (in Norwegian) from the
astrophysics
department at the University in Oslo where they show the seismic data
and
the area where the impact occured:

http://www.astro.uio.no/ita/nyheter/ildkule06/ildkule06.html

Other reports, like this one (also in Norwegian),

http://www.forskning.no/Artikler/2006/juni/1149844342.73

indicate that "unusual light and sound pohenomena" were observed
in an area around the time of impact. The windows of a house were
blown in by a "loud bang" and a landslide was observed, although no
connection with the meteorite has yet been confirmed. Maybe it is
possible to find this object after all.

Rune

Rune Allnor skrev:
> Rune Allnor skrev:
> > Jim Thomas skrev:
> > > I saw this on the web today:
> > > http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1346411.ece
> > >
> > > A meteorite struck northern Norway Wednesday. The article talks about
> > > seismographs picking it up, so I wonder if Rune has a take on all thi=
s=2E
> >
> > I only know it from the press reports. I don't know if it is much hope
> > of
> > finding the object. The area is vast and sparsely populated, so there
> > are few people around to watch for the crater. The ground is mostly
> > bedrock covered by at most a couple of meters of humus and maybe
> > some thicker layers of gravel here and there. If one has a general
> > position
> > fix from seismometers, then maybe one can narrow down the search
> > enough to find the object, if not...
> >
> > Rune
>
> I just checked around. Here is a page (in Norwegian) from the
> astrophysics
> department at the University in Oslo where they show the seismic data
> and
> the area where the impact occured:
>
> http://www.astro.uio.no/ita/nyheter/ildkule06/ildkule06.html
>
> Other reports, like this one (also in Norwegian),
>
> http://www.forskning.no/Artikler/2006/juni/1149844342.73
>
> indicate that "unusual light and sound pohenomena" were observed
> in an area around the time of impact. The windows of a house were
> blown in by a "loud bang" and a landslide was observed, although no
> connection with the meteorite has yet been confirmed. Maybe it is
> possible to find this object after all.
>
> Rune

Here is an image of what "might" be the impact site of an object
of some 12 kg:

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/article1346820.ece

Note the almost non-existense of humus above the bedrock,
which is typical for most of western and northern Scandinavia.
There is not much chance of a crater forming here, making
it very hard to spot an impact site.

The windows that were reported to be "blown in" yesteerday,
are in this article reported to have behaved as "the curtains
moved in front of the open window".

There is also some criticism by an astronomer at the University
of Troms=F8 against "other astronomers" who have commented the
case in the most exuberant superlatives. This "other astronomer"
is well known for such language in most of his comments
to the press.

Rune

On 10 Jun 2006 05:38:40 -0700, "Rune Allnor" <allnor@tele.ntnu.no>
wrote:

>
>Rune Allnor skrev:
>> Rune Allnor skrev:
>> > Jim Thomas skrev:
>> > > I saw this on the web today:
>> > > http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1346411.ece
>> > >
>> > > A meteorite struck northern Norway Wednesday. The article talks about
>> > > seismographs picking it up, so I wonder if Rune has a take on all this.
>> >
>> > I only know it from the press reports. I don't know if it is much hope
>> > of
>> > finding the object. The area is vast and sparsely populated, so there
>> > are few people around to watch for the crater. The ground is mostly
>> > bedrock covered by at most a couple of meters of humus and maybe
>> > some thicker layers of gravel here and there. If one has a general
>> > position
>> > fix from seismometers, then maybe one can narrow down the search
>> > enough to find the object, if not...
>> >
>> > Rune

Rune, it might not be that difficult to find.   People scrounge the
desert around here all the time and pick out meteorites, and if you've
ever seen the desert around here it makes the case that these things
must not be that difficult to distinguish from native rock. Apparently
someone knowledgable can take a quick scan of the area and say which
of the rocks or fragments are meteorite and which aren't.

Evidently there are a number of people who make their living picking
meteorites out of the desert and selling them to museums and
collectors.

Eric Jacobsen
Minister of Algorithms, Intel Corp.
My opinions may not be Intel's opinions.
http://www.ericjacobsen.org

Eric Jacobsen skrev:
> On 10 Jun 2006 05:38:40 -0700, "Rune Allnor" <allnor@tele.ntnu.no>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Rune Allnor skrev:
> >> Rune Allnor skrev:
> >> > Jim Thomas skrev:
> >> > > I saw this on the web today:
> >> > > http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1346411.ece
> >> > >
> >> > > A meteorite struck northern Norway Wednesday. The article talks about
> >> > > seismographs picking it up, so I wonder if Rune has a take on all this.
> >> >
> >> > I only know it from the press reports. I don't know if it is much hope
> >> > of
> >> > finding the object. The area is vast and sparsely populated, so there
> >> > are few people around to watch for the crater. The ground is mostly
> >> > bedrock covered by at most a couple of meters of humus and maybe
> >> > some thicker layers of gravel here and there. If one has a general
> >> > position
> >> > fix from seismometers, then maybe one can narrow down the search
> >> > enough to find the object, if not...
> >> >
> >> > Rune
>
> Rune, it might not be that difficult to find.   People scrounge the
> desert around here all the time and pick out meteorites, and if you've
> ever seen the desert around here it makes the case that these things
> must not be that difficult to distinguish from native rock. Apparently
> someone knowledgable can take a quick scan of the area and say which
> of the rocks or fragments are meteorite and which aren't.

I don't know the geology of present-day deserts, but there seem to be
a lot of shales and sandstone around. Meteorites are usually very
different
from sandstones, which might be part of the explanation. The
Scandinavian
bedrock consists of old metamorphic rocks like granites, that have at
some distant time been heated and pressurized to undergo certain
chemical and physical changes. I don't know the geology of meteorites,
but I get the impression they are more similar to granites than to
sandstones.

> Evidently there are a number of people who make their living picking
> meteorites out of the desert and selling them to museums and
> collectors.

Scandinavia is not a very interesting place what recent geology is
concerned. The bedrock is among the older ones on earth, and the
glaciers of recent ice age, that ended some 10000 years ago,
polished any remaining surface structure away, leaving huge
moraines.

This series of images taken by German tourists, show the
geology and flora typical of Northern Norway.

http://www.reuber-norwegen.de/Nordland/BilderTab_NordlandSoerfold.html

These images are taken only a few km away from where I grew up.
In the far north, where the metorite impacted, there is apparently
few trees higher than 1 - 1.5 m. Note the smooth sides of the
mountains, evidence of intense polishing by the glaciers that were
2-3 km thick some 20000 years ago.

Rune

Excuse me, but isn't a meteor that had an impact similar
to an atomic bomb going to be immediately obvious?
Like searching for Lake Michigan... I don't understand
the problem. How many millimeters of resolution are
our surveillance satellites down to now?

--Randy

Randy Yates skrev:
> Excuse me, but isn't a meteor that had an impact similar
> to an atomic bomb going to be immediately obvious?
> Like searching for Lake Michigan... I don't understand
> the problem. How many millimeters of resolution are
> our surveillance satellites down to now?

Well, the comparision of this impact with an atomic bomb has
got this astronomer into, if not trouble so at least dismay with
his fellow astronomers. This guy never makes a comment to
the press without using terms like "exceptional", "sensational",
"once-in-a-life-time expereince", "unique in the history of
mankind" and so on. I find it very hard to take that guy
serioulsy anymore, but unfortunately, the press calls him
every time they need some comment on astronomy.

If the impact site reported turns out to be assocoiated with this
meteorite, we are talking about an object of some 10-20 kg,
and a "crater" that amounts to a mere scar in a mountain side.

Rune

"Rune Allnor" <allnor@tele.ntnu.no> writes:

> Randy Yates skrev:
>> Excuse me, but isn't a meteor that had an impact similar
>> to an atomic bomb going to be immediately obvious?
>> Like searching for Lake Michigan... I don't understand
>> the problem. How many millimeters of resolution are
>> our surveillance satellites down to now?
>
> Well, the comparision of this impact with an atomic bomb has
> got this astronomer into, if not trouble so at least dismay with
> his fellow astronomers. This guy never makes a comment to
> the press without using terms like "exceptional", "sensational",
> "once-in-a-life-time expereince", "unique in the history of
> mankind" and so on. I find it very hard to take that guy
> serioulsy anymore, but unfortunately, the press calls him
> every time they need some comment on astronomy.
>
> If the impact site reported turns out to be assocoiated with this
> meteorite, we are talking about an object of some 10-20 kg,
> and a "crater" that amounts to a mere scar in a mountain side.

Ah, that makes a little more sense, then. (Of course the press
calls this guy - he's their "spin-astronomer" ...)
-- 
%  Randy Yates                  % "My Shangri-la has gone away, fading like 
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC            %  the Beatles on 'Hey Jude'" 
%%% 919-577-9882                %  
%%%% <yates@ieee.org>           % 'Shangri-La', *A New World Record*, ELO
http://home.earthlink.net/~yatescr

in article m3d5dgnwia.fsf@ieee.org, Randy Yates at yates@ieee.org wrote on
06/11/2006 00:27:

> "Rune Allnor" <allnor@tele.ntnu.no> writes:
> 
>> Randy Yates skrev:
>>> Excuse me, but isn't a meteor that had an impact similar
>>> to an atomic bomb going to be immediately obvious?
>>> Like searching for Lake Michigan... I don't understand
>>> the problem. How many millimeters of resolution are
>>> our surveillance satellites down to now?
>> 
>> Well, the comparision of this impact with an atomic bomb has
>> got this astronomer into, if not trouble so at least dismay with
>> his fellow astronomers. This guy never makes a comment to
>> the press without using terms like "exceptional", "sensational",
>> "once-in-a-life-time expereince", "unique in the history of
>> mankind" and so on. I find it very hard to take that guy
>> serioulsy anymore, but unfortunately, the press calls him
>> every time they need some comment on astronomy.
>> 
>> If the impact site reported turns out to be assocoiated with this
>> meteorite, we are talking about an object of some 10-20 kg,
>> and a "crater" that amounts to a mere scar in a mountain side.
> 
> Ah, that makes a little more sense, then. (Of course the press
> calls this guy - he's their "spin-astronomer" ...)

unless the current meteor was akin to the 1908 Tunguska Event (Siberia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunguska_event or, God help us, the Puerto
Chicxulub Event (Yucat&#4294967295;n) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicxulub_Crater
(65000000 B.C.), no scientist has any responsible business saying to the
media for public consumption that the meteor impact is comparable to an
atomic bomb.  he should get his professional ass kicked by his peers.

about a year ago, i was walking in the evening on a bike bridge newly
constructed across the mouth of the Winooski River here in Vermont and i
happened to look over the lake (Champlain) toward the Adirondack Mtns. of NY
and saw a "falling star".  it wasn't the first time i saw such a thing, but
this one must have been pretty close, either over the lake or over the mtns
on the other side of the lake.  the tail behind the meteor had flames in the
rear that were visibly "licking" back and forth.  dunno why this is germane,
but i just thought i'd mention it.  has anyone else seen a meteor flaming
out in such a manner?  what indication of distance might that be?


-- 

r b-j                  rbj@audioimagination.com

"Imagination is more important than knowledge."