Re: Blinded by math. Was "How does an inverter affect phase?"

Started by June 20, 2006
```Andor wrote:
> Jerry Avins wrote:
>> Andor wrote:
>>> Eric Jacobsen wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:06:03 -0400, Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Oli Filth wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>   ...
>>>>>
>>>>>> So my question is, if we want to apply a phase-shift to a (complex) DC
>>>>>> component, in which direction should it be applied, and why?
>>>>> That's a joke, no?
>>>>>
>>>>> Jerry
>>>> I think I know what he means:   A complex phasor can have a "phase" in
>>>> relation to the coordinate grid and still be DC.
>>> It's useless to argue. Jerry does not believe in the phase response at
>>> DC (hence this whole thread), and if the maths says otherwise, well,
>>> change the maths!
>> Show me two simultaneous DC signals which are out of phase one with the
>> other, and I'll accept the math.
>
> You mean like 1 and -1 ?

Those lie on a continuum. You will find the same values in a single
phase of a single sinusoid. Calling different polarities of DC different
phases contorts common sense to fit a misguided reading of the math.

Phase is a continuous function. To define a special phase with only two
discrete values as an "explanation" is mere sophistry. Calling a tail a
leg doesn't make it one.

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;
```
```Andor wrote:
> Jerry Avins wrote:
>> Andor wrote:
>>> Eric Jacobsen wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:06:03 -0400, Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Oli Filth wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>   ...
>>>>>
>>>>>> So my question is, if we want to apply a phase-shift to a (complex) DC
>>>>>> component, in which direction should it be applied, and why?
>>>>> That's a joke, no?
>>>>>
>>>>> Jerry
>>>> I think I know what he means:   A complex phasor can have a "phase" in
>>>> relation to the coordinate grid and still be DC.
>>> It's useless to argue. Jerry does not believe in the phase response at
>>> DC (hence this whole thread), and if the maths says otherwise, well,
>>> change the maths!
>> Show me two simultaneous DC signals which are out of phase one with the
>> other, and I'll accept the math.
>
> You mean like 1 and -1 ?

Those lie on a continuum. You will find the same values in a single
phase of a single sinusoid. Calling different polarities of DC different
phases contorts common sense to fit a misguided reading of the math.

Phase is a continuous function. To define a special phase with only two
discrete values as an "explanation" is mere sophistry. Calling a tail a
leg doesn't make it one.

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;
```