Rune Allnor wrote:> Jerry Avins skrev: >> Randy Yates wrote: >> > Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> writes: >> > >> >> "Eigen" means "self". >> > >> > I always thought eigen meant "proper." Not true, or is this >> > an alternate meaning? >> >> It's true if you construe "proper" an in "property". As a >> simple translation, that's archaic. "My own sister" translates >> to "meine eigene Schwester." (Ask Google if you doubt it.) :-) > > The German "eigen" seems to map to the Norwegian "egen", which > can have meanings like "own" or "self" as above. Other > translations include "stubborn", ("han er sv�rt egen", "he is > very stubborn"), "particular" or "certain" as in "hun har en > egen sjarm", "she has a certain / particular charm". > > My understanding of the the term "eigenvalue" (N. "egenverdi") > has always been "self value".http://dict.leo.org/ende?search=eigen Martin -- Quidquid latine scriptum sit, altum viditur.
Independent Component Analysis (ICA)
Started by ●November 19, 2006
Reply by ●November 22, 20062006-11-22
Reply by ●November 22, 20062006-11-22
Martin Eisenberg skrev:> Rune Allnor wrote: > > Jerry Avins skrev: > >> Randy Yates wrote: > >> > Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> writes: > >> > > >> >> "Eigen" means "self". > >> > > >> > I always thought eigen meant "proper." Not true, or is this > >> > an alternate meaning? > >> > >> It's true if you construe "proper" an in "property". As a > >> simple translation, that's archaic. "My own sister" translates > >> to "meine eigene Schwester." (Ask Google if you doubt it.) :-) > > > > The German "eigen" seems to map to the Norwegian "egen", which > > can have meanings like "own" or "self" as above. Other > > translations include "stubborn", ("han er sv=E6rt egen", "he is > > very stubborn"), "particular" or "certain" as in "hun har en > > egen sjarm", "she has a certain / particular charm". > > > > My understanding of the the term "eigenvalue" (N. "egenverdi") > > has always been "self value". > > http://dict.leo.org/ende?search=3DeigenInteresting. Which of these interpretations does a native German speaker understand in the term "eigenvalue"? Rune
Reply by ●November 22, 20062006-11-22
Rune Allnor wrote:> Martin Eisenberg skrev:>> http://dict.leo.org/ende?search=eigen > > Interesting. Which of these interpretations does a native German > speaker understand in the term "eigenvalue"?For what it's worth, I understand it as something like "characteristic value", so the closest on that list would be "innate" and "idiosyncratic". Martin -- Quidquid latine scriptum sit, altum viditur.
Reply by ●November 22, 20062006-11-22
Rune Allnor wrote:> Martin Eisenberg skrev: >> Rune Allnor wrote: >>> Jerry Avins skrev: >>>> Randy Yates wrote: >>>>> Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> writes: >>>>> >>>>>> "Eigen" means "self". >>>>> I always thought eigen meant "proper." Not true, or is this >>>>> an alternate meaning? >>>> It's true if you construe "proper" an in "property". As a >>>> simple translation, that's archaic. "My own sister" translates >>>> to "meine eigene Schwester." (Ask Google if you doubt it.) :-) >>> The German "eigen" seems to map to the Norwegian "egen", which >>> can have meanings like "own" or "self" as above. Other >>> translations include "stubborn", ("han er sv�rt egen", "he is >>> very stubborn"), "particular" or "certain" as in "hun har en >>> egen sjarm", "she has a certain / particular charm". >>> >>> My understanding of the the term "eigenvalue" (N. "egenverdi") >>> has always been "self value". >> http://dict.leo.org/ende?search=eigen > > Interesting. Which of these interpretations does a native German > speaker understand in the term "eigenvalue"?Probably at least overtones of all of them. I own my own property; they are proprietary (or proper) to me, to myself. Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. �����������������������������������������������������������������������
Reply by ●November 22, 20062006-11-22
Martin Eisenberg wrote:> Rune Allnor wrote: >> Martin Eisenberg skrev: > >>> http://dict.leo.org/ende?search=eigen >> Interesting. Which of these interpretations does a native German >> speaker understand in the term "eigenvalue"? > > For what it's worth, I understand it as something like > "characteristic value", so the closest on that list would be "innate" > and "idiosyncratic".Properly so: that fits! :-) Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. �����������������������������������������������������������������������
Reply by ●November 22, 20062006-11-22
Martin Eisenberg skrev:> Rune Allnor wrote: > > Martin Eisenberg skrev: > > >> http://dict.leo.org/ende?search=eigen > > > > Interesting. Which of these interpretations does a native German > > speaker understand in the term "eigenvalue"? > > For what it's worth, I understand it as something like > "characteristic value", so the closest on that list would be "innate" > and "idiosyncratic".Hmmm... I could go along with that. Maybe "peculiar" also works; eigenvectors are "peculiar" in a certain sense... That was, what, almost 20 years from I first heard the term until I got an explanation that made some sort of sense. One learns something new every day... Rune
Reply by ●November 22, 20062006-11-22
Jerry Avins wrote:> Martin Eisenberg wrote: >> Rune Allnor wrote: >>> Martin Eisenberg skrev: >> >>>> http://dict.leo.org/ende?search=eigen >>> Interesting. Which of these interpretations does a native >>> German speaker understand in the term "eigenvalue"? >> >> For what it's worth, I understand it as something like >> "characteristic value", so the closest on that list would be >> "innate" and "idiosyncratic". > > Properly so: that fits! :-)Are you referring to the meta-humor? I noticed that, but it's unintentional. Doesn't the mind work eigen-ly... Martin -- If you don't aim for the unexpected and the unthinkable, you will never find it: for it is untraceable and inaccessible. --Heraklit
Reply by ●November 22, 20062006-11-22
Rune Allnor wrote:> Martin Eisenberg skrev:>> For what it's worth, I understand it as something like >> "characteristic value", so the closest on that list would be >> "innate" and "idiosyncratic". > > Hmmm... I could go along with that. Maybe "peculiar" also works; > eigenvectors are "peculiar" in a certain sense... > > That was, what, almost 20 years from I first heard the term > until I got an explanation that made some sort of sense.Gosh, glad to hear that! Martin -- We don't often think of the lavish jeweled scarabs that decorated the mummies as representations of dung beetles who nourished their /pupae/ in excrement. We have, however, appropriated this term into English as /pupil/. --B. Hagens, Timbre of the Spheres
Reply by ●November 22, 20062006-11-22
Martin Eisenberg wrote:> Jerry Avins wrote: > >> Martin Eisenberg wrote:...>>> For what it's worth, I understand it as something like >>> "characteristic value", so the closest on that list would be >>> "innate" and "idiosyncratic". >> Properly so: that fits! :-) > > Are you referring to the meta-humor? I noticed that, but it's > unintentional. Doesn't the mind work eigen-ly...Unintentional, but not accidental. The languages forces it. Jerry -- Separation of church and state is a myth, just like global warming. ... The Rev. Jerry Fallwell �����������������������������������������������������������������������
Reply by ●November 23, 20062006-11-23
Martin Eisenberg skrev:> Rune Allnor wrote: > > Martin Eisenberg skrev: > > >> For what it's worth, I understand it as something like > >> "characteristic value", so the closest on that list would be > >> "innate" and "idiosyncratic". > > > > Hmmm... I could go along with that. Maybe "peculiar" also works; > > eigenvectors are "peculiar" in a certain sense... > > > > That was, what, almost 20 years from I first heard the term > > until I got an explanation that made some sort of sense. > > Gosh, glad to hear that!Well, Norwegian maths teachers don't really excel in 19th century German linguistics -- nor do I, for that matter. Eigenvector and eigenvalue are terms that just appear without any attempts at outlining the etymology behind them and thus might represent even higher hurdles for the students. Saying something like "an eigenvector has certain peculiar properties" makes a lot of sense in Norwegian. I would use one of the terms "egenartet" and "s=E6regen" (note the "egen" as in "egenverdi") for "peculiar". Rune
