Hi guys, If the fundamental is 110.0hz would 220.0hz be called the first or second harmonic ? Also, which are the even and odd harmonics in this series: 110.0, 220.0, 330.0, 440.0 ? I always considered 220.0 to be the first harmonic and also even but I'm really not sure. Thanks, Robert A.
Harmonics
Started by ●November 26, 2006
Reply by ●November 26, 20062006-11-26
Robert A. wrote:> Hi guys, > > If the fundamental is 110.0hz would 220.0hz be called the first or > second harmonic ? > > Also, which are the even and odd harmonics in this series: 110.0, 220.0, > 330.0, 440.0 ? > > I always considered 220.0 to be the first harmonic and also even but I'm > really not sure. > > Thanks, > Robert A.I've always referred to the 2x fundamental as the 2nd harmonic. I'll bet usage varies considerably here -- it'll be interesting to see what the rest of the group says. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com Posting from Google? See http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/ "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" came out in April. See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html
Reply by ●November 26, 20062006-11-26
Robert A. wrote:> Hi guys, > > If the fundamental is 110.0hz would 220.0hz be called the first or > second harmonic ? > > Also, which are the even and odd harmonics in this series: 110.0, 220.0, > 330.0, 440.0 ? > > I always considered 220.0 to be the first harmonic and also even but I'm > really not sure. >If the frequency is N times of the fundamental, then it is called the Nth harmonic. So the fundamental itself is the first harmonic. Isn't it? Vladimir Vassilevsky DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant http://www.abvolt.com
Reply by ●November 26, 20062006-11-26
Tim Wescott wrote:> Robert A. wrote: > >> Hi guys, >> >> If the fundamental is 110.0hz would 220.0hz be called the first or >> second harmonic ? >> >> Also, which are the even and odd harmonics in this series: 110.0, >> 220.0, 330.0, 440.0 ? >> >> I always considered 220.0 to be the first harmonic and also even but >> I'm really not sure. >> >> Thanks, >> Robert A. > > > I've always referred to the 2x fundamental as the 2nd harmonic. I'll > bet usage varies considerably here -- it'll be interesting to see what > the rest of the group says. >Yes, the term "harmonic" signifies "mode of vibration", and the 1st mode of vibration is synonymously called the fundamental. And harmonic N is then simply fundamental*N Hz. Usage does not /should not vary - this is how it is and always has been! Richard Dobson
Reply by ●November 26, 20062006-11-26
Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:> > > Robert A. wrote: > >> Hi guys, >> >> If the fundamental is 110.0hz would 220.0hz be called the first or >> second harmonic ? >> >> Also, which are the even and odd harmonics in this series: 110.0, >> 220.0, 330.0, 440.0 ? >> >> I always considered 220.0 to be the first harmonic and also even but >> I'm really not sure. >> > > If the frequency is N times of the fundamental, then it is called the > Nth harmonic. So the fundamental itself is the first harmonic. Isn't it?It's not good language, but that's how it is. (Matlab wasn't around when the terminology developed.) Robert A., Don't you find it a bit queer to call 220 the first harmonic and even at the same time? One is an odd number. Tim, Usage does indeed vary, but then so does the pronunciation of "nuclear". (Exactly why is uncular.) Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. �����������������������������������������������������������������������
Reply by ●November 26, 20062006-11-26
Tim Wescott wrote:> Robert A. wrote: > >> Hi guys, >> >> If the fundamental is 110.0hz would 220.0hz be called the first or >> second harmonic ? >> >> Also, which are the even and odd harmonics in this series: 110.0, >> 220.0, 330.0, 440.0 ? >> >> I always considered 220.0 to be the first harmonic and also even but >> I'm really not sure. >> >> Thanks, >> Robert A. > > I've always referred to the 2x fundamental as the 2nd harmonic. I'll > bet usage varies considerably here -- it'll be interesting to see what > the rest of the group says. >I think usage varies little, though some people will always use terms in peculiar ways (see Eric Jacobson on what constitutes a sensible way to refer to channel capacity :-) ). However, there are two terms, the second of which seems to be falling into disuse: 2 x fundamental == 2nd harmonic 2 x fundamental == 1st overtone Regards, Steve
Reply by ●November 26, 20062006-11-26
Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> writes:> Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote: >> Robert A. wrote: >> >>> Hi guys, >>> >>> If the fundamental is 110.0hz would 220.0hz be called the first or >>> second harmonic ? >>> >>> Also, which are the even and odd harmonics in this series: 110.0, >>> 220.0, 330.0, 440.0 ? >>> >>> I always considered 220.0 to be the first harmonic and also even >>> but I'm really not sure. >>> >> If the frequency is N times of the fundamental, then it is called >> the Nth harmonic. So the fundamental itself is the first >> harmonic. Isn't it? > > It's not good language, but that's how it is. (Matlab wasn't around > when the terminology developed.) > > Robert A., > > Don't you find it a bit queer to call 220 the first harmonic and even > at the same time? One is an odd number. > > Tim, > > Usage does indeed vary, but then so does the pronunciation of > "nuclear". (Exactly why is uncular.)Just as another datapoint, the text I always look to for the fundamentals, [signalsandsystems], define it the way Vladimir first did. --Randy PS: I hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving, and Merry Christmas! (getting in the Christmas mood listening to "Delilah"...) @BOOK{signalsandsystems, title = "{Signals and Systems}", author = "{Alan~V.~Oppenheim, Alan~S.~Willsky, with Ian~T.~Young}", publisher = "Prentice Hall", year = "1983"} -- % Randy Yates % "I met someone who looks alot like you, %% Fuquay-Varina, NC % she does the things you do, %%% 919-577-9882 % but she is an IBM." %%%% <yates@ieee.org> % 'Yours Truly, 2095', *Time*, ELO http://home.earthlink.net/~yatescr
Reply by ●November 26, 20062006-11-26
Jerry Avins wrote:>>> If the fundamental is 110.0hz would 220.0hz be called the first or=20 >>> second harmonic ?Looks like everything is mixed up here. There could be either 120V/60Hz or 220V/50Hz, but it is not what is=20 generally referred as harmonics.>>> Also, which are the even and odd harmonics in this series: 110.0,=20 >>> 220.0, 330.0, 440.0 ?120, 220, 380, 2.4kV, 4.8kV, 6.3kV... Even numbers are used in EU, odd - = in the US.>>> I always considered 220.0 to be the first harmonic and also even but =>>> I'm really not sure.I also used to think that 220 is the way it should be, but now I am not=20 sure.>> >> If the frequency is N times of the fundamental, then it is called the =>> Nth harmonic. So the fundamental itself is the first harmonic. Isn't i=t?>=20 > It's not good language, but that's how it is.=D7=F2=EE =EF=EE=E4=E5=EB=E0=E5=F8=FC. =CD=E0=E4=E5=FE=F1=FC, =F2=E0=EA =E1= =F3=E4=E5=F2 =EF=EE=ED=FF=F2=ED=E5=E5: =C8=F4 =E7=E5 =F4=F0=E8=EA=E2=E5=ED=F1=E8 =E8=E7 =FD=ED =F2=E0=E9=EC=E7 =EE= =F4 =E7=E5 =F4=E0=ED=E4=E0=EC=E5=ED=F2=E0=EB, =E7=E5=ED =E8=F2 =E8=E7 =EA= =EE=EB=E5=E4 =E7=E5 =FD=ED=F1=20 =F5=E0=F0=EC=EE=ED=E8=EA. Is it better that way?> (Matlab wasn't around when=20 > the terminology developed.)Can you clarify that. I didn't get it.>=20 > Robert A., >=20 > Don't you find it a bit queer to call 220 the first harmonic and even a=t=20> the same time? One is an odd number.The 220 is the voltage, and "one" is probably the current rating.>=20 > Tim, >=20 > Usage does indeed vary, but then so does the pronunciation of "nuclear"==2E=20> (Exactly why is uncular.)I can't get the difference between "rear" and "rare". VLV
Reply by ●November 26, 20062006-11-26
Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
...
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>
> Is it better that way?
I don't know. My father spoke Russian, but I never learned how. In this
country, my mother's mother's relatives are variously named Gorelic,
Horlick, and combinations of those. Her father's relatives are Gotkin,
Hotkin, and (via France) Hotkine.
>> (Matlab wasn't around when the terminology developed.)
>
> Can you clarify that. I didn't get it.
Matlab indices are off by one, at least off by one from the way
engineers usually use them.
Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
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Reply by ●November 26, 20062006-11-26
Robert A. skrev:> Hi guys, > > If the fundamental is 110.0hz would 220.0hz be called the first or > second harmonic ?Maybe I'm mixing things up, either in terminology or languages, but I think of the fundamental as 0th harmonic and 2 x fundamental as 1st harmonic. Mind you, the term in Norwegian is "overharmonisk" ("over harmonic") that I don't think I have seen in English. In Norwegian the word "overtone" is a term for generic harmonics, and does not relate -- at least the way I know it -- to specific frequency ratios. Clear as mud. As all these linguistic discussions... Rune
