engineering graduate school question

Salmon Egg wrote:

<snip>
> In my day, I am retired now, amateur radio was a passion for many a potential EE.
> That seems to be replaced by computers now and ham radio is dying. 

How on earth did the rec.radio.amateur hierarchy descend into such idiocy
(except for the homebrew ng)? I hadn't looked there for many years and am
aghast at what I see. This situation is certainly reflected on other
online amatuer radio venues on the Internet as well.

In the US, one could argue that FCC policy that has downgraded licensing
requirements since the late 1970s has played a significant role in
deficits of character, but what explains the online bad conduct of
amateurs from elsewhere?

Do you see any hope of restoring an engineering orientation to the
amateur radio services and if so by what instrumentality?

Regards,

Michael

On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 20:40:40 -0500, msg <msg@_cybertheque.org_> wrote:

>Salmon Egg wrote:
>
><snip>
>> In my day, I am retired now, amateur radio was a passion for many a potential EE.
>> That seems to be replaced by computers now and ham radio is dying. 
>
>How on earth did the rec.radio.amateur hierarchy descend into such idiocy
>(except for the homebrew ng)? I hadn't looked there for many years and am
>aghast at what I see. This situation is certainly reflected on other
>online amatuer radio venues on the Internet as well.
>
>In the US, one could argue that FCC policy that has downgraded licensing
>requirements since the late 1970s has played a significant role in
>deficits of character, but what explains the online bad conduct of
>amateurs from elsewhere?
>
>Do you see any hope of restoring an engineering orientation to the
>amateur radio services and if so by what instrumentality?
>
>Regards,
>
>Michael

 Re-edjimucate 'em!

On 6/18/07 6:34 PM, in article
1182216882.444668.298530@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com, "Bret Ludwig"
<bretldwig@yahoo.com> wrote:

> 
>> 
>> Of the responses I have seen so far, this is the best advice. What do you
>> want to do? Do you have any passion for some specialty? In my day, I am
>> retired now, amateur radio was a passion for many a potential EE. That seems
>> to be replaced by computers now and ham radio is dying. Do you like working
>> at the bench in preference to design and analysis? Let that guide you.
>> 
> 
> Amateur Radio killed itself off by allowing appliance operators to go
> wild. They should have insisted on taxing imported ahm equipment and
> put a practical test in place like the one for an A&P license for the
> Extra.

The purpose for most amateur radio activities has vanished. Operation during
emergencies such as Katrina is about the most useful activity I can think
of. Under ordinary circumstances communication is so cheap and more reliable
through submarine cable and satellite that the thrill is gone. In my day,
phone patch traffic for the military and others provided a service that was
not otherwise available. Today, even if I were active, I would prefer paying
a few cents a minute for a transcontinental phone call compared to running a
patch.
> 
> As a career decision the MSEE makes sense only if very, very
> carefully evaluated in terms of the future of the H-1B program, which
> has killed EE/CS as a desireable career path for many Americans.

I was a partial victim of the H-1B program in the 70's. That is why I am
against amnesty and guest workers at this time.
<snip> 

Bill
-- Support the troops. Impeach Bush. Oh, I forgot about Cheney.

On 6/18/07 6:40 PM, in article 137ectun5v07180@corp.supernews.com, "msg"
<msg@_cybertheque.org_> wrote:

> Salmon Egg wrote:
> 
> <snip>
>> In my day, I am retired now, amateur radio was a passion for many a potential
>> EE.
>> That seems to be replaced by computers now and ham radio is dying.
> 
> How on earth did the rec.radio.amateur hierarchy descend into such idiocy
> (except for the homebrew ng)? I hadn't looked there for many years and am
> aghast at what I see. This situation is certainly reflected on other
> online amatuer radio venues on the Internet as well.
> 
> In the US, one could argue that FCC policy that has downgraded licensing
> requirements since the late 1970s has played a significant role in
> deficits of character, but what explains the online bad conduct of
> amateurs from elsewhere?
> 
> Do you see any hope of restoring an engineering orientation to the
> amateur radio services and if so by what instrumentality?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Michael

Not really. Modern electronics and radio is not really feasible or
economical for home construction. I can get an FM stereo radio with
earphones at the 99&#4294967295; store. You cannot buy the parts for a transceiver for
what it costs for a much better piece of equipment commercially.

Don't blame the FCC. The US Navy no longer uses Morse code as far as I know.
Even short wave broadcasters have given up good frequencies because internet
over fiber gives more reliable and cheaper service.

Bill

-- Support the troops. Impeach Bush. Oh, I forgot about Cheney.

panfilero wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I know this isn't really a technical question, but I was wondering if
> anyone in here might be able to offer some insight on this.  I
> recently got my BSEE, and am considering going for a Masters, and my
> question is, is it worth it?  Does anyone know what the major
> differences would be graduating with a BSEE or a MSEE, I don't know if
> it would be better to start working and trying to learn stuff in
> industry or continuing school, I'm 30 right now, which is a bit older
> to have just got a BSEE.  The University I attend isn't a top 100 or
> top 200 in the country as far as EE goes either.

Years ago this same question faced me.  Research showed the answer is
clear!  GET THE MSEE!!! Believe me the year or two (you should have
asked this question LONG ago Bunky! Many schools have programs that
let you get a BSEE and MSEE at the same time.) spent getting the
master's degree MORE than pays for itself. This is true in all
engineering fields, but especially in EE. Your starting salary will
jump-start and the BSEE guys who graduated with you will never catch
up!

For what it's worth, getting a PhD. is NOT worth it! The extended time
needed to get that degree, means that you fall back behind the MSEE
guys who are working and getting promoted. You NEVER catch up! Hence
the bottom line is one gets a PhD ONLY for reasons where it is
required, like say teaching but never to try to fast track your
salary.

And there is more. Once you hit industry and the job scene, you'll
find that although everyone makes a huge fuss about how important it
is to get on the job training and how nobody teaches anything in
college that is useful in a job setting (well except for bureaucratic
politics, of course), Fact Is, that the company you chose to work for
will invariably advance the guy with the MSEE sheepskin over the
smartest BSEE with all the company training they have to offer.  Trust
me on this!

Get those forms in!

I hope this helps.

Benj

On Jun 18, 4:59 pm, panfilero <panfil...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I know this isn't really a technical question, but I was wondering if
> anyone in here might be able to offer some insight on this.  I
> recently got my BSEE, and am considering going for a Masters, and my
> question is, is it worth it?  Does anyone know what the major
> differences would be graduating with a BSEE or a MSEE, I don't know if
> it would be better to start working and trying to learn stuff in
> industry or continuing school, I'm 30 right now, which is a bit older
> to have just got a BSEE.  The University I attend isn't a top 100 or
> top 200 in the country as far as EE goes either.
>
> Thanks,
> Joshua

Joshua, I am assuming that you are in the United States
and you are interested in jobs in the United States.

It's hard to say anything that holds in generality, but some
companies nowadays don't even accept BS-level, fresh out
of university, new hires.  So at the very least it will open some
doors to you.  Whether those doors are attractive to you
depends on opportunities and the values you assign to them.

That said, given your hesitation (isn't that why you posted
this question), maybe the best thing to do is to go for the
master's if and only if you can get yourself into a good
program that makes you happy, or a project that you think will
make you a better engineer.  The increased potential salary is
worth it only if you can get to it :-).  And that is helped with a
degree from a better-known school or with an improved resume.

I don't think that age has much to do here, except for the higher
likelihood of having dependents.  That always imposes tough
constraints and challenges.

One thing that makes the scene a bit complicated is the
increasing popularity of the 5-year BS/MEng combo in the
United States.  That murks the waters a bit.  I think it's a great
deal for those who stay in school for the 5 years, because it
offers a chance at working on a good project before they leave
school.  But I don't know what that means to those who are
going back from full-time employment to pursue a master's
degree.

Finally, going for a PhD may not be sensible from a salary
perspective, but I'm glad to have done it since I was paid to do
it (albeit only student stipend and/or fellowships), I didn't have
to pay tuition, and now I can work at the level that I want to
within my company.  Your mileage may and probably will vary.

Cheers, and good luck on your decision.
Julius

On Jun 19, 3:26 am, Benj <bjac...@iwaynet.net> wrote:

> will invariably advance the guy with the MSEE sheepskin over the
> smartest BSEE with all the company training they have to offer.  Trust
> me on this!

This is utter nonsense. You're not actually in the workforce, are you?

panfilero <panfilero@gmail.com> wrote in news:1182203977.820765.80400
@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:

> Hello,
> 
> I know this isn't really a technical question, but I was wondering if
> anyone in here might be able to offer some insight on this.  I
> recently got my BSEE, and am considering going for a Masters, and my
> question is, is it worth it?  Does anyone know what the major
> differences would be graduating with a BSEE or a MSEE, I don't know if
> it would be better to start working and trying to learn stuff in
> industry or continuing school, I'm 30 right now, which is a bit older
> to have just got a BSEE.  The University I attend isn't a top 100 or
> top 200 in the country as far as EE goes either.
> 
> Thanks,
> Joshua
> 
> 

Congrats on asking yourself the hard questions before making a decision.  
When an undergrad informs me of such a decision, I always suggest that 
the student take a really close look at why they want the advanced 
degree.

I think as a fresh BS at age 30, you might stand out a little in an 
applicant pool of other BS's, with employers seeing you as a little more 
mature than the rest of the pool  -- especially if you write the right 
sort of cover letter.  There is also the risk that they view you as 
indecisive, so make sure you have a good story about why your career path 
is just launching now. 

Whether or not the above gives you as much boost as a Masters might, or 
whether the practical experience you'd get as a working engineer would 
offset this, or whether your career clock is ticking too fast right now 
to justify the Masters is a lot harder to pin down, and your own personal 
goals will have much to do with the decision.

-- 
Scott
Reverse name to reply

On Jun 18, 5:59 pm, panfilero <panfil...@gmail.com> wrote:

> anyone in here might be able to offer some insight on this.  I
> recently got my BSEE, and am considering going for a Masters, and

I would suggest you get a foot in the door experience-wise and get
into the workforce now, if you are able - and pursue the MSEE part-
time. Note that this also starts the clock on work experience for the
PE qualification, if you want to become one of the two or three
licensed PEs in your state.

One really good reason for doing it this way: many (most?)
corporations will pay for some or all of the tuition costs. If you
stay in school, you'll be further behind in terms of useful (on the
job) experience and deeper in debt. Free money is good; one of the
main things that pushed me to the job I'm in right now is that I can
soak up $20k of tuition for free (or more; it's limited only by the
number of credits I can take while keeping an A average).

Even if you graduate with an MSEE you will, by and large, still only
be eligible for entry-level positions because of your inexperience.

On Jun 19, 5:59 am, panfilero <panfil...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I know this isn't really a technical question, but I was wondering if
> anyone in here might be able to offer some insight on this.  I
> recently got my BSEE, and am considering going for a Masters, and my
> question is, is it worth it?  Does anyone know what the major
> differences would be graduating with a BSEE or a MSEE, I don't know if
> it would be better to start working and trying to learn stuff in
> industry or continuing school, I'm 30 right now, which is a bit older
> to have just got a BSEE.  The University I attend isn't a top 100 or
> top 200 in the country as far as EE goes either.
>
> Thanks,
> Joshua

Without any solid reason i want to say to grab some commercial
opportunity and consider your further education as a part time thing,
perhaps life is itself a learning process. Yes, having a Master degree
does help to get certain jobs but some advertisers do prompt for age
factor as well. Like, Should be having master with below age 26 to or
so;)

Getting BSEE over 30 years does exhibit your passion for particular
profession. So, why not giving a chance to some commercial world?
worth a shot , BTW you can get to school at anytime for your Master.


ali