Do-it-yourself audio effects device ?

Dear DSP and audio gurus,

I have a few years experience with DSP theory and practise,
mostly in Matlab and related to speech processing.
My original background is in computer science; I am familiar with 
some "real" programming also :-) I've implemented some simple audio effects 
like EQ, chorus/flanger, and compressor. 

I've been thinking to extend my DSP and programming know-how to some 
hardware-oriented / embedded / realtime programming. I was thinking 
maybe programming some audio effects to somekind of chip would
be good project to learn some hardware-oriented realtime 
signal processing. What do you think?

I am interested to purchase somekind of chip/board that I can 
connect easily to a computer (e.g. via USB), where I can 
program my own stuff. However, this device should be operating 
totally without computer after it has been programmed -- e.g., 
to be used as a guitar or karaoke effect. What is this kind of 
device called, does there exist one? :-) Please help me to get 
started with some basic terminology so that I know what I need to 
look for.

Thank you !
Tomi Kinnunen

Tomi Kinnunen wrote:
> I am interested to purchase somekind of chip/board that I can 
> connect easily to a computer (e.g. via USB), where I can 
> program my own stuff. However, this device should be operating 
> totally without computer after it has been programmed -- e.g., 
> to be used as a guitar or karaoke effect. 

An eval board from a DSP chip vendor is likely to do what you're asking. 
  Check for appropriate audio interfaces before purchasing though.

A better solution could be one of the offerings from Danville Signal 
Processing http://www.danvillesignal.com/ - the principal there is Al 
Clark, a regular here on comp.dsp.

Good luck, and have fun with this.

-- 
Jim Thomas            Principal Applications Engineer  Bittware, Inc
jthomas@bittware.com  http://www.bittware.com    (603) 226-0404 x536
Failure is always an option

Tomi Kinnunen wrote:
> Dear DSP and audio gurus,
> 
> I have a few years experience with DSP theory and practise,
> mostly in Matlab and related to speech processing.
> My original background is in computer science; I am familiar with 
> some "real" programming also :-) I've implemented some simple audio effects 
> like EQ, chorus/flanger, and compressor. 
> 
> I've been thinking to extend my DSP and programming know-how to some 
> hardware-oriented / embedded / realtime programming. I was thinking 
> maybe programming some audio effects to somekind of chip would
> be good project to learn some hardware-oriented realtime 
> signal processing. What do you think?
> 
> I am interested to purchase somekind of chip/board that I can 
> connect easily to a computer (e.g. via USB), where I can 
> program my own stuff. However, this device should be operating 
> totally without computer after it has been programmed -- e.g., 
> to be used as a guitar or karaoke effect. What is this kind of 
> device called, does there exist one? :-) Please help me to get 
> started with some basic terminology so that I know what I need to 
> look for.
> 
> Thank you !
> Tomi Kinnunen



Most DSP evaluation kits (e.g. ADI TigerSharc TS201, Freescale (nee 
Motorola) DSP56303EVM) include some flash programmable memory for 
standalone use. I am sure hardware experts on this list will enumerate 
many others.

The DSP56303 is widely used in Pro Audio devices, not least in ProTools, 
so even if there are technically more advanced chips around, experience 
programming that chip will open up possibilities of making TDM plugins 
for Pro Tools (assuming you can persuade them to give you an SDK 
licence...). Sharcs are used in teh Creamware Scope and Pulsar cards.

Richard Dobson

On Jul 11, 9:55 am, Tomi Kinnunen <tki...@cs.joensuu.fi> wrote:
> Dear DSP and audio gurus,
>
> I have a few years experience with DSP theory and practise,
> mostly in Matlab and related to speech processing.
> My original background is in computer science; I am familiar with
> some "real" programming also :-) I've implemented some simple audio effects
> like EQ, chorus/flanger, and compressor.
>
> I've been thinking to extend my DSP and programming know-how to some
> hardware-oriented / embedded / realtime programming. I was thinking
> maybe programming some audio effects to somekind of chip would
> be good project to learn some hardware-oriented realtime
> signal processing. What do you think?
>
> I am interested to purchase somekind of chip/board that I can
> connect easily to a computer (e.g. via USB), where I can
> program my own stuff. However, this device should be operating
> totally without computer after it has been programmed -- e.g.,
> to be used as a guitar or karaoke effect. What is this kind of
> device called, does there exist one? :-) Please help me to get
> started with some basic terminology so that I know what I need to
> look for.
>
> Thank you !
> Tomi Kinnunen

You will need a DSP starter kit,  or DSK.

The TMS320C6713 DSK from Spectrum Digital will do it for you:
http://focus.ti.com/docs/toolsw/folders/print/tmdsdsk6713.html

If you want to have an ability to load and control your DSP code from
a PC-based GUI application you will also need HPI daugther card from
Educational DSP, LLC:
http://www.educationaldsp.com/stockproduct_dsk6xxxhpi.htm

This setup works just fine, plenty of CPU cycles to do any audio
effect in real time...

Haven't tried to boot and run it in standalone mode yet.
It should be possible though...

"Jim Thomas" <jthomas@bittware.com> wrote in message
news:1399raltddmdf70@corp.supernews.com...
> Tomi Kinnunen wrote:
> > I am interested to purchase somekind of chip/board that I can
> > connect easily to a computer (e.g. via USB), where I can
> > program my own stuff. However, this device should be operating
> > totally without computer after it has been programmed -- e.g.,
> > to be used as a guitar or karaoke effect.
>
> An eval board from a DSP chip vendor is likely to do what you're asking.
>   Check for appropriate audio interfaces before purchasing though.
>
> A better solution could be one of the offerings from Danville Signal
> Processing http://www.danvillesignal.com/ - the principal there is Al
> Clark, a regular here on comp.dsp.
>
> Good luck, and have fun with this.
>
> -- 
> Jim Thomas            Principal Applications Engineer  Bittware, Inc
> jthomas@bittware.com  http://www.bittware.com    (603) 226-0404 x536
> Failure is always an option

The offerings from Danville seem a bit pricey for a hobbyist, particularly
when you consider that he also needs a development environment, RTOS etc.

I have no personal experience with the following, but at least one other
poster has reported good experiences (although in an environment different
from audio):

An NXP LPC 2138 mounted on an Olimex evaluation board:
http://www.olimex.com/dev/lpc-mt-2138.html .  Also from Olimex, the parallel
port JTAG debugger / programmer.

For the compiler / debugger environment: Rowley Cross Studio for ARM - Said
to be easy to use for anyone that knows Visual Studio and is very reasonable
in terms of price. The compiler is based on the open source one, so all the
examples for the LPC2xxx can be compiled on there.

FreeRTOS realtime OS: http://www.freertos.org . There is supposedly a port
for the Rowley IDE and LPC2138. It's for a Kiel evaluation board, but it's
supposedly straightforward to modify it for the Olimex one.

The evaluation board was about $80, the JTAG about $30 and Rowley about
$150.  Overall it was recommended for someone considering getting started in
micros for the first time.


Any comments on this?

On 11 jul, 10:10, "Michael K. O'Neill"
<mikeathon2...@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Jim Thomas" <jtho...@bittware.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1399raltddmdf70@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Tomi Kinnunen wrote:
> > > I am interested to purchase somekind of chip/board that I can
> > > connect easily to a computer (e.g. via USB), where I can
> > > program my own stuff. However, this device should be operating
> > > totally without computer after it has been programmed -- e.g.,
> > > to be used as a guitar or karaoke effect.
>
> > An eval board from a DSP chip vendor is likely to do what you're asking.
> >   Check for appropriate audio interfaces before purchasing though.
>
> > A better solution could be one of the offerings from Danville Signal
> > Processinghttp://www.danvillesignal.com/- the principal there is Al
> > Clark, a regular here on comp.dsp.
>
> > Good luck, and have fun with this.
>
> > --
> > Jim Thomas            Principal Applications Engineer  Bittware, Inc
> > jtho...@bittware.com  http://www.bittware.com   (603) 226-0404 x536
> > Failure is always an option
>
> The offerings from Danville seem a bit pricey for a hobbyist, particularly
> when you consider that he also needs a development environment, RTOS etc.
>
> I have no personal experience with the following, but at least one other
> poster has reported good experiences (although in an environment different
> from audio):
>
> An NXP LPC 2138 mounted on an Olimex evaluation board:http://www.olimex.com/dev/lpc-mt-2138.html.  Also from Olimex, the parallel
> port JTAG debugger / programmer.
>
> For the compiler / debugger environment: Rowley Cross Studio for ARM - Said
> to be easy to use for anyone that knows Visual Studio and is very reasonable
> in terms of price. The compiler is based on the open source one, so all the
> examples for the LPC2xxx can be compiled on there.
>
> FreeRTOS realtime OS:http://www.freertos.org. There is supposedly a port
> for the Rowley IDE and LPC2138. It's for a Kiel evaluation board, but it's
> supposedly straightforward to modify it for the Olimex one.
>
> The evaluation board was about $80, the JTAG about $30 and Rowley about
> $150.  Overall it was recommended for someone considering getting started in
> micros for the first time.
>
> Any comments on this?- Ocultar texto de la cita -
>
> - Mostrar texto de la cita -

Hello,

The solution is a SigmaDSP by ADI: www.analog.com/sigmadsp

Cheers.

"Michael K. O'Neill" <mikeathon2000@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in
news:Kp6li.8069$bz7.1241@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net: 

> 
> "Jim Thomas" <jthomas@bittware.com> wrote in message
> news:1399raltddmdf70@corp.supernews.com...
>> Tomi Kinnunen wrote:
>> > I am interested to purchase somekind of chip/board that I can
>> > connect easily to a computer (e.g. via USB), where I can
>> > program my own stuff. However, this device should be operating
>> > totally without computer after it has been programmed -- e.g.,
>> > to be used as a guitar or karaoke effect.
>>
>> An eval board from a DSP chip vendor is likely to do what you're
>> asking. 
>>   Check for appropriate audio interfaces before purchasing though.
>>
>> A better solution could be one of the offerings from Danville Signal
>> Processing http://www.danvillesignal.com/ - the principal there is Al
>> Clark, a regular here on comp.dsp.
>>
>> Good luck, and have fun with this.
>>
>> -- 
>> Jim Thomas            Principal Applications Engineer  Bittware, Inc
>> jthomas@bittware.com  http://www.bittware.com    (603) 226-0404 x536
>> Failure is always an option
> 
> The offerings from Danville seem a bit pricey for a hobbyist,
> particularly when you consider that he also needs a development
> environment, RTOS etc. 
> 

I agree that an eval board from one of the DSP manufacturers may be a 
good choice. Analog Devices is the dominant player in audio (discounting 
telephony). I would go this route over TI or NXP. The major cost of any 
board purchase will be the time spent using it. I think you will get more 
benefit by developing skills with a popular family of devices.  

Eval boards typically include some dev tools. In the ADI case, this 
includes a Kit version of Visual DSP and a built-in debugger (ICE). We 
license the same debugger from ADI and also include a KIT license of 
Visual DSP with our dspstak 21369 with ICE boards.

Our dev boards differ from an eval board in that they are designed as a 
dev platform for our production boards. The production boards are less 
expensive than eval boards and more flexible. Our customers are typically 
using our boards for small and medium volume production runs where the 
cost of developing and manufacturing a full custom board is more 
expensive than buying ours.

We usually lose money when we sell a dev board. This is due primarily to 
the free support we give our customers. We are betting with our customers 
that they will need our production boards after they develop their 
product. 

-- 
Al Clark
Danville Signal Processing, Inc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Purveyors of Fine DSP Hardware and other Cool Stuff
Available at http://www.danvillesignal.com





> I have no personal experience with the following, but at least one
> other poster has reported good experiences (although in an environment
> different from audio):
> 
> An NXP LPC 2138 mounted on an Olimex evaluation board:
> http://www.olimex.com/dev/lpc-mt-2138.html .  Also from Olimex, the
> parallel port JTAG debugger / programmer.
> 
> For the compiler / debugger environment: Rowley Cross Studio for ARM -
> Said to be easy to use for anyone that knows Visual Studio and is very
> reasonable in terms of price. The compiler is based on the open source
> one, so all the examples for the LPC2xxx can be compiled on there.
> 
> FreeRTOS realtime OS: http://www.freertos.org . There is supposedly a
> port for the Rowley IDE and LPC2138. It's for a Kiel evaluation board,
> but it's supposedly straightforward to modify it for the Olimex one.
> 
> The evaluation board was about $80, the JTAG about $30 and Rowley
> about $150.  Overall it was recommended for someone considering
> getting started in micros for the first time.
> 
> 
> Any comments on this?
> 
> 

Al Clark wrote:


> I agree that an eval board from one of the DSP manufacturers may be a 
> good choice. Analog Devices is the dominant player in audio (discounting 
> telephony).

Analog Devices is the dominant DSP player in the "Everything Else" 
sector of the market. The big chunks like military, medical, 
entertainment are taken by the other companies, leaving "everything 
else" to ADI.

It is sad, because ADI DSPs have a very sensible architecture compared, 
say, to TI. The ADI documentation is also better. It is easier to start 
working with AD DSP.


> We usually lose money when we sell a dev board. This is due primarily to 
> the free support we give our customers. We are betting with our customers 
> that they will need our production boards after they develop their 
> product. 

I have developed RTOS for BlackFin (keeping in mind the portability to 
the other CPUs). It was successfully used in the several projects.

Vladimir Vassilevsky

DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant

http://www.abvolt.com

Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
> 
> 
> Al Clark wrote:
> 
> 
>> I agree that an eval board from one of the DSP manufacturers may be a 
>> good choice. Analog Devices is the dominant player in audio 
>> (discounting telephony).
> 
> Analog Devices is the dominant DSP player in the "Everything Else" 
> sector of the market. The big chunks like military, medical, 
> entertainment are taken by the other companies, leaving "everything 
> else" to ADI.

Strange list. Military and medical are definitely in the everything else 
category. Pretty low volumes, and ADI have done well at them.

> It is sad, because ADI DSPs have a very sensible architecture compared, 
> say, to TI. The ADI documentation is also better. It is easier to start 
> working with AD DSP.
> 
>> We usually lose money when we sell a dev board. This is due primarily 
>> to the free support we give our customers. We are betting with our 
>> customers that they will need our production boards after they develop 
>> their product. 
> 
> I have developed RTOS for BlackFin (keeping in mind the portability to 
> the other CPUs). It was successfully used in the several projects.

It intrigues me how many non-DSP people are using the Blackfin, 
especially since they started providing solid uCLinux support for it.

Regards,
Steve

Hi Al,

Al Clark napisa�(a):
(...)
> I agree that an eval board from one of the DSP manufacturers may be a 
> good choice. Analog Devices is the dominant player in audio (discounting 
> telephony). I would go this route over TI or NXP. The major cost of any 
> board purchase will be the time spent using it. I think you will get more 
> benefit by developing skills with a popular family of devices.  

I agree, that The SHARC evalutaion board is the best platform for Tomi.

First, he should choose floating point architecture to avoid problems 
with fixed point implementation of audio algorithms, and the second, ADI 
SHARC tools are build in Matlab.

Why not TI C6713 ?

Its not so perfect for audio (hardware architecture, easy of 
programming) like SHARC.

Anyway, TI chips are cheapest, so may be interesting for big volume 
production, but this is not the case.

Best regards

Roman Rumian

http://www.analog.com/en/epHSProd/0,,21369-HARDWARE,00.html