Professional Exams for Digital Signal Processing!?

Scott Seidman <namdiesttocs@mindspring.com> wrote in
news:Xns999D6F3AC42DCscottseidmanmindspri@130.133.1.4: 

> julius <juliusk@gmail.com> wrote in news:1188571704.370525.159540
> @k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com:
> 
>> Does IEEE actually have a "curriculum standard"?  I didn' t know
>> that. Where can one read it?
> 
> 
> ABET maintains curriculum standards.  I imagine for EE, IEEE is one of
> the major professional organizations providing input to ABET to
> generate the standards

Specifically, the criteria for ABET accreditation:

PROGRAM CRITERIA FOR
ELECTRICAL, COMPUTER,
AND SIMILARLY NAMED ENGINEERING PROGRAMS
Lead Society: Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers
Cooperating Society for Computer Engineering Programs: CSAB
These program criteria apply to engineering programs that include 
electrical, electronic, computer, or similar modifiers in their titles.
1. Curriculum
The structure of the curriculum must provide both breadth and depth 
across the range of engineering topics implied by the title of the 
program.
The program must demonstrate that graduates have: knowledge of 
probability and statistics, including applications appropriate to the 
program name and objectives; and knowledge of mathematics through 
differential and integral calculus, basic sciences, computer science, and 
engineering sciences necessary to analyze and design complex electrical 
and electronic devices, software, and systems containing hardware and 
software components, as appropriate to program objectives.
Programs containing the modifier &#4294967295;electrical&#4294967295; in the title must also 
demonstrate that graduates have a knowledge of advanced mathematics, 
typically including differential equations, linear algebra, complex 
variables, and discrete mathematics.
Programs containing the modifier &#4294967295;computer&#4294967295; in the title must also 
demonstrate that graduates have a knowledge of discrete mathematics



-- 
Scott
Reverse name to reply

On Aug 31, 9:56 am, Scott Seidman <namdiestt...@mindspring.com> wrote:

> ABET maintains curriculum standards.  I imagine for EE, IEEE is one of the
> major professional organizations providing input to ABET to generate the
> standards
> --
> Scott
> Reverse name to reply

Thanks for the clarification, Scott.  That's what I thought:  ABET
generates
the standard, based on input perhaps from IEEE.

I am having a real hard time following the discussion in this thread.
I can't
tell what issue is being raised:  choice of curriculum in EE
departments,
the requirements for a PE or whether a PE should be required, or
perhaps
whether there should be a PE-type certification for EE.

Some schools such as Purdue have two separate departments:
Engineering, and Technology.  They both have EE, although in the
latter
it's called EET.  The EET curriculum is a lot more applied:  it runs
through
basic calculus and signals/systems and gets to the "experience-
oriented"
tutorial and project classes.

So maybe this is an approach that should be taken:  split the
department
and let the students choose.

Julius

julius <juliusk@gmail.com> wrote in news:1188581061.580047.160100
@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com:

> Some schools such as Purdue have two separate departments:
> Engineering, and Technology.  They both have EE, although in the
> latter
> it's called EET.  The EET curriculum is a lot more applied:  it runs
> through
> basic calculus and signals/systems and gets to the "experience-
> oriented"
> tutorial and project classes.
> 

Some schools have two departments, with only one being ABET accredited.

-- 
Scott
Reverse name to reply

julius <juliusk@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1188581061.580047.160100@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com: 

> On Aug 31, 9:56 am, Scott Seidman <namdiestt...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> 
>> ABET maintains curriculum standards.  I imagine for EE, IEEE is one
>> of the major professional organizations providing input to ABET to
>> generate the standards
>> --
>> Scott
>> Reverse name to reply
> 
> Thanks for the clarification, Scott.  That's what I thought:  ABET
> generates
> the standard, based on input perhaps from IEEE.
> 
> I am having a real hard time following the discussion in this thread.
> I can't
> tell what issue is being raised:  choice of curriculum in EE
> departments,
> the requirements for a PE or whether a PE should be required, or
> perhaps
> whether there should be a PE-type certification for EE.
> 
> Some schools such as Purdue have two separate departments:
> Engineering, and Technology.  They both have EE, although in the
> latter
> it's called EET.  The EET curriculum is a lot more applied:  it runs
> through
> basic calculus and signals/systems and gets to the "experience-
> oriented"
> tutorial and project classes.
> 
> So maybe this is an approach that should be taken:  split the
> department
> and let the students choose.
> 
> Julius
> 

I took the PE exams about 20 years ago. It actually consisted of two tests, 
the EIT (Generic Engineer in Training) and Professional Engineering 
(discipline specific - in my case EE).

The EIT was actually hard for an EE since it was all pretty much mechanical 
engineering. 

The PE test (EE version) was a word problem test where you got to choose 
from a pool of questions. About 1/2 the questions were aimed at power 
option EEs. I chose the other questions which were more electronics 
oriented. I thought this test was pretty easy.  

Each test lasted 8 hours. You also had to pass an oral exam, have a few 
work exhibits, and work in the field for 3 years.

I took the test because at the time I was designing and promoting a medical 
product. I figured letters after my name might help my posture with the 
MDs.

I can't say that passing these tests proved anything about my technical 
skills, although I did learn a little about thermodynamics and statics 
before I took the EIT.

I quit paying the annual fees many years ago, so I am no longer a member of 
the "club" and therefore my name is unembellished. Oh well.... The best 
reason I had for taking the tests is so that I can now claim that they are 
a waste of time and money.

I think that if you graduate from an ABET accredited school in engineering 
that you are an engineer. 

I also think that the PE exams should be open to non degreed engineers as a 
sort of equivalency test. I doubt that very many technicians could pass the 
tests that I took. I know several non degreed EEs who are very good. These 
guys never finished an engineering degree for one reason or another. 

Here are two examples of people I know who could not take the PE exam:

1. Person 1 had Bachelors in Physics and ABT (all but dissertation for 
Masters in EE) - but no actual EE degree.

2. Person 2 had two missing non technical electives from completing BSEE.

Both individuals have practiced electrical engineering for many years. 

In all cases, certification is unlikely to weed out bad engineers and it 
will certainly not create good ones. 

Al Clark (no P.E.)
Danville Signal Processing, Inc.

  

 

On 31 Aug, 13:31, Richard Owlett <rowl...@atlascomm.net> wrote:
> Scott Seidman wrote:
> > Richard Owlett <rowl...@atlascomm.net> wrote in news:13def00f5i84g13
> > @news.supernews.com:
>
> >>No. I was on the mark. If a EE wants PE after his name he is tested on
> >>structures, no electronics -- at least back in 60's when I was in school.
>
> > That might very well be true, but what does that have to do with academic
> > credentials?
>
> IEEE curriculum standards were emphasizing theoretical rather than
> applied science and lifting -- without adaptation -- Liberal Arts
> distribution requirements. They spent no effort that I heard of in
> promoting professional licensing that was at all relevant to an EE
> interested in instrumentation. The justification for licensure is
> attempting assure competency in life safety areas. Would proper design
> of EEG, EKG, pacemakers have life safety implications???

I have no basis to comment on IEEE as such, but after having
spent some time in "the real world" (as opposed to academia)
I am somewhat amazed (but by no means amused) by the total
lack of communication between the two worlds.

Academics don't know, understand or even interest themselves
in problems which are relevant to the commercial world.
In my line of work, underwater acoustics, academics spend
carreers trying to come up with a sonar which detects what
a fish ate for breakfast two days ago -- well, not that
exactly but their present research goals make about that
much sense and are about that much achievable.

In the commercial world, the focus is on large-scale,
high-volume "trivial" processing. These sorts of operations
involve multiple construction vessels operating at day rates
on the order of $100000 - $1000000. Every major operation
needs to be planned, based on pre-ops surveys, evaluated
based on post-ops surveys, and maybe even corrected based
on intermediate surveys taken during the operation. These
evaluations become very cumbersome when a survey takes,
say, 3 hrs to actually do, but the data take 3 days to
process.

If you ask leading academics about how they would improve
the efficiency of such processing, you will only recieve
blank stares as no one care much for such "trivialities."

On the other hand, the commercial world does not always
care for planning, reporting and track records, meaning
that lots of time is spent running around in circles
trying to sort out past results or repeated errors.

Well, coming to think of it -- the commercial world
would not have much to learn from academia in those
respects, but still...

Rune

On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:14:50 +0100, "Brian Byrne"
<brian.byrne23@mail.dcu.ie> wrote:

>
>"Jerry Avins" <jya@ieee.org> wrote in message 
>news:N6CdnUDyUbVQUkjbnZ2dnUVZ_qainZ2d@rcn.net...
>> Brian Byrne wrote:
>>> Thanks for that information.
>>
>> Among the skills that will help you find a job that you want is better 
>> command of written English, especially if you're a native-born anglophone. 
>> For one example, there should be no space between a punctuation mark and 
>> the word immediately preceding it:
>>
>Ceart go leoir ! Ceapim go bhfuil tu an a mhaith ar fad i Bearla.!!!
>Thats my native tongue , Gaeilge . Thats Irish to you if you don't 
>understand Gaeilge very well.
>
   (snipped by Lyons)

Hi Brian,

   Irish huh?

Here's a story:
The Irish Pub, just outside of Dublin, is on 
fire.  When the town's Fire truck pulls up in 
front of the Pub and screeches to a halt, one 
of the Pub's patrons runs out of the Pub with 
his jacket on fire.  The firemen leapt out of 
the truck and jumped on the man and put out 
his burning jacket.  Then one fireman said to 
the Pub's patron, "You'll be OK now.  Tell me, 
how did the fire get started?"  The patron said, 
"I don't know, the Pub was on fire when I went in."

When those Irish want a drink, they want a drink!  
Ha ha.   

Now Brian, before you call your attorney and file 
a law suit against me, please know that I am 
OFFICIALLY permitted to tell "Irish" jokes.
I'm allowed to tell as many as I want, whenever I want.

That's because I'm of Irish ancestry.  My grandmother,  
born outside of Dublin, sneaked into the U.S. by way 
of Canada.  (But she did not, I repeat did *NOT*, go 
directly to the local Welfare Office.  When she arrived, 
she got a job washing clothes and then found herself 
a husband.)

Hey Brian, what's a good Irish whiskey?  Not the 
filthy slop they sell us Yanks over here, ... I mean 
a *really* good Irish whisky.

Best Regards,
[-Rick-]

On Aug 31, 7:00 pm, Al Clark <acl...@danvillesignal.com> wrote:
[snip]
>
> I also think that the PE exams should be open to non degreed engineers as a
> sort of equivalency test. I doubt that very many technicians could pass the
> tests that I took. I know several non degreed EEs who are very good. These
> guys never finished an engineering degree for one reason or another.
>
> Here are two examples of people I know who could not take the PE exam:
>
> 1. Person 1 had Bachelors in Physics and ABT (all but dissertation for
> Masters in EE) - but no actual EE degree.
>
> 2. Person 2 had two missing non technical electives from completing BSEE.
>
> Both individuals have practiced electrical engineering for many years.
>
> In all cases, certification is unlikely to weed out bad engineers and it
> will certainly not create good ones.
>
> Al Clark (no P.E.)
> Danville Signal Processing, Inc.

Al, I like your comments.  I agree that the PE certification should
be open to those without EE degrees.  Of course, I have no idea
how open or not open it is today :-P.

Julius

R.Lyons@_BOGUS_ieee.org (Rick Lyons) writes:

> Hey Brian, what's a good Irish whiskey?  Not the 
> filthy slop they sell us Yanks over here, ... I mean 
> a *really* good Irish whisky.

I recommend Midleton: http://www.classicwhiskey.com/whiskey/midleton.htm

Sl�n go f�ill,

Peter "Australian & Irish" K.

-- 
"And he sees the vision splendid 
of the sunlit plains extended
And at night the wondrous glory of the everlasting stars."