Thought I'd ask here, since I'm having difficulty getting reliable info elsewhere. I'm trying to get a basic list of Industrial, Scientific and Medical equipment that may emit fairly high levels of RF radiated power in the ISM bands, especially in the 900MHz band but also in 2.4GHz. So far the only thing that I've found commonly referenced is MRI machines in the 900MHz band. Microwave ovens in the 2.4GHz band are also well known, and apparently some large, industrial microwave ovens operate at the bottom the 900MHz band as well. Does anybody else know any examples of non-communications radiators are used in the ISM bands? I'm esspecially interested in high-power devices. Thanks much in advance. Eric Jacobsen Minister of Algorithms Abineau Communications http://www.ericjacobsen.org
Industrial Equipment in 900MHz ISM band
Started by ●February 3, 2008
Reply by ●February 3, 20082008-02-03
Eric Jacobsen wrote:> Thought I'd ask here, since I'm having difficulty getting reliable > info elsewhere. > > I'm trying to get a basic list of Industrial, Scientific and Medical > equipment that may emit fairly high levels of RF radiated power in the > ISM bands, especially in the 900MHz band but also in 2.4GHz. > > So far the only thing that I've found commonly referenced is MRI > machines in the 900MHz band. Microwave ovens in the 2.4GHz band are > also well known, and apparently some large, industrial microwave ovens > operate at the bottom the 900MHz band as well. > > Does anybody else know any examples of non-communications radiators > are used in the ISM bands? I'm esspecially interested in high-power > devices. > > Thanks much in advance. > > Eric Jacobsen > Minister of Algorithms > Abineau Communications > http://www.ericjacobsen.orgAren't they listed in FCC regulations (Part 15, Code of Federal Regulations)? It's been decades since I was interested in that problem.
Reply by ●February 3, 20082008-02-03
On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 05:16:41 -0600, Richard Owlett <rowlett@atlascomm.net> wrote:>Eric Jacobsen wrote: >> Thought I'd ask here, since I'm having difficulty getting reliable >> info elsewhere. >> >> I'm trying to get a basic list of Industrial, Scientific and Medical >> equipment that may emit fairly high levels of RF radiated power in the >> ISM bands, especially in the 900MHz band but also in 2.4GHz. >> >> So far the only thing that I've found commonly referenced is MRI >> machines in the 900MHz band. Microwave ovens in the 2.4GHz band are >> also well known, and apparently some large, industrial microwave ovens >> operate at the bottom the 900MHz band as well. >> >> Does anybody else know any examples of non-communications radiators >> are used in the ISM bands? I'm esspecially interested in high-power >> devices. >> >> Thanks much in advance. >> >> Eric Jacobsen >> Minister of Algorithms >> Abineau Communications >> http://www.ericjacobsen.org > >Aren't they listed in FCC regulations (Part 15, Code of Federal >Regulations)? It's been decades since I was interested in that problem.No, there are a few examples, but the regs are just the regs. Eric Jacobsen Minister of Algorithms Abineau Communications http://www.ericjacobsen.org
Reply by ●February 3, 20082008-02-03
Eric Jacobsen wrote:> Thought I'd ask here, since I'm having difficulty getting reliable > info elsewhere. > > I'm trying to get a basic list of Industrial, Scientific and Medical > equipment that may emit fairly high levels of RF radiated power in the > ISM bands, especially in the 900MHz band but also in 2.4GHz. > > So far the only thing that I've found commonly referenced is MRI > machines in the 900MHz band. Microwave ovens in the 2.4GHz band are > also well known, and apparently some large, industrial microwave ovens > operate at the bottom the 900MHz band as well. > > Does anybody else know any examples of non-communications radiators > are used in the ISM bands? I'm esspecially interested in high-power > devices.What frequencies are used by RF heat sealing presses (beach balls, Zodiac boats, etc.) nowadays? Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. �����������������������������������������������������������������������
Reply by ●February 3, 20082008-02-03
Jerry Avins wrote:> Eric Jacobsen wrote: >> Thought I'd ask here, since I'm having difficulty getting reliable >> info elsewhere. >> >> I'm trying to get a basic list of Industrial, Scientific and Medical >> equipment that may emit fairly high levels of RF radiated power in the >> ISM bands, especially in the 900MHz band but also in 2.4GHz. >> >> So far the only thing that I've found commonly referenced is MRI >> machines in the 900MHz band. Microwave ovens in the 2.4GHz band are >> also well known, and apparently some large, industrial microwave ovens >> operate at the bottom the 900MHz band as well. >> >> Does anybody else know any examples of non-communications radiators >> are used in the ISM bands? I'm esspecially interested in high-power >> devices. > > What frequencies are used by RF heat sealing presses (beach balls, > Zodiac boats, etc.) nowadays? > > JerryAnd what is used for collision avoidance? Steve
Reply by ●February 3, 20082008-02-03
On Mon, 04 Feb 2008 00:41:07 +0800, Steve Underwood <steveu@dis.org> wrote:>Jerry Avins wrote: >> Eric Jacobsen wrote: >>> Thought I'd ask here, since I'm having difficulty getting reliable >>> info elsewhere. >>> >>> I'm trying to get a basic list of Industrial, Scientific and Medical >>> equipment that may emit fairly high levels of RF radiated power in the >>> ISM bands, especially in the 900MHz band but also in 2.4GHz. >>> >>> So far the only thing that I've found commonly referenced is MRI >>> machines in the 900MHz band. Microwave ovens in the 2.4GHz band are >>> also well known, and apparently some large, industrial microwave ovens >>> operate at the bottom the 900MHz band as well. >>> >>> Does anybody else know any examples of non-communications radiators >>> are used in the ISM bands? I'm esspecially interested in high-power >>> devices. >> >> What frequencies are used by RF heat sealing presses (beach balls, >> Zodiac boats, etc.) nowadays? >> >> Jerry > >And what is used for collision avoidance? > >SteveEvidently there are some perimeter alarms that use 900MHz, for trucks and things. I don't know much about them other than that. I'd thought that rf furnaces used that band, but everything I've been able to find suggests they're actually quite low frequency, like 140kHz or something. Eric Jacobsen Minister of Algorithms Abineau Communications http://www.ericjacobsen.org
Reply by ●February 3, 20082008-02-03
Eric Jacobsen wrote:> On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 05:16:41 -0600, Richard Owlett > <rowlett@atlascomm.net> wrote: > > >>Eric Jacobsen wrote: >> >>>Thought I'd ask here, since I'm having difficulty getting reliable >>>info elsewhere. >>> >>>I'm trying to get a basic list of Industrial, Scientific and Medical >>>equipment that may emit fairly high levels of RF radiated power in the >>>ISM bands, especially in the 900MHz band but also in 2.4GHz. >>> >>>So far the only thing that I've found commonly referenced is MRI >>>machines in the 900MHz band. Microwave ovens in the 2.4GHz band are >>>also well known, and apparently some large, industrial microwave ovens >>>operate at the bottom the 900MHz band as well. >>> >>>Does anybody else know any examples of non-communications radiators >>>are used in the ISM bands? I'm esspecially interested in high-power >>>devices. >>> >>>Thanks much in advance. >>> >>>Eric Jacobsen >>>Minister of Algorithms >>>Abineau Communications >>>http://www.ericjacobsen.org >> >>Aren't they listed in FCC regulations (Part 15, Code of Federal >>Regulations)? It's been decades since I was interested in that problem. > > > No, there are a few examples, but the regs are just the regs. > > Eric Jacobsen > Minister of Algorithms > Abineau Communications > http://www.ericjacobsen.orgI stated the wrong part of C.F.R. It's evidently Part 47. see http://www.fcc.gov/oet/spectrum/table/fcctable.pdf Quoting the title page " FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION OFFICE OF ENGINEERING AND TECHNOLOGY POLICY AND RULES DIVISION FCC ONLINE TABLE OF FREQUENCY ALLOCATIONS 47 C.F.R. � 2.106 Revised on May 4, 2007 Disclaimer: The Table of Frequency Allocations as published by the Federal Register remains the legal source document. Contact Tom Mooring at 202-418-2450 if you have any questions or comments. " not listed == ain't legal Especially equipment with significant power. I'd suggest contacting a holder of a "First Class" commercial operator's license -- either "Radio Telephone" or "Radio Telegraph" (they required the same knowledge of regulations). You could get a local lead from "Chief Engineer" of a local commercial broadcast station or possibly a local licensed radio amateur. My Second Class Radiotelephone Operator License expired 4/18/1968. [I'm attempting to become as old as Jerry ;]
Reply by ●February 3, 20082008-02-03
> Does anybody else know any examples of non-communications radiators > are used in the ISM bands? I'm esspecially interested in high-power > devices.Not real high power, but 4.3GHz range, Radio Altimeter (landing aid for airplains) http://lea.hamradio.si/~s53mv/radalt/radalt.html Christen
Reply by ●February 3, 20082008-02-03
"Eric Jacobsen" <eric.jacobsen@ieee.org> wrote in message news:v4haq35601pugac825i3gg99iak3lgke73@4ax.com...> Thought I'd ask here, since I'm having difficulty getting > reliable > info elsewhere.DME (aircraft distance measuring equipment) transmitters use the 962-1213 MHz band. Can't vouch for reliability, but here's a lead that has additional links to the stuff you're looking for: http://www.prc68.com/I/FA.shtml
Reply by ●February 4, 20082008-02-04
On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 14:30:33 -0600, Richard Owlett <rowlett@atlascomm.net> wrote:>Eric Jacobsen wrote: >> On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 05:16:41 -0600, Richard Owlett >> <rowlett@atlascomm.net> wrote: >> >> >>>Eric Jacobsen wrote: >>> >>>>Thought I'd ask here, since I'm having difficulty getting reliable >>>>info elsewhere. >>>> >>>>I'm trying to get a basic list of Industrial, Scientific and Medical >>>>equipment that may emit fairly high levels of RF radiated power in the >>>>ISM bands, especially in the 900MHz band but also in 2.4GHz. >>>> >>>>So far the only thing that I've found commonly referenced is MRI >>>>machines in the 900MHz band. Microwave ovens in the 2.4GHz band are >>>>also well known, and apparently some large, industrial microwave ovens >>>>operate at the bottom the 900MHz band as well. >>>> >>>>Does anybody else know any examples of non-communications radiators >>>>are used in the ISM bands? I'm esspecially interested in high-power >>>>devices. >>>> >>>>Thanks much in advance. >>>> >>>>Eric Jacobsen >>>>Minister of Algorithms >>>>Abineau Communications >>>>http://www.ericjacobsen.org >>> >>>Aren't they listed in FCC regulations (Part 15, Code of Federal >>>Regulations)? It's been decades since I was interested in that problem. >> >> >> No, there are a few examples, but the regs are just the regs. >> >> Eric Jacobsen >> Minister of Algorithms >> Abineau Communications >> http://www.ericjacobsen.org > >I stated the wrong part of C.F.R. It's evidently Part 47. >see http://www.fcc.gov/oet/spectrum/table/fcctable.pdf > >Quoting the title page >" >FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION >OFFICE OF ENGINEERING AND TECHNOLOGY >POLICY AND RULES DIVISION >FCC ONLINE TABLE OF FREQUENCY ALLOCATIONS >47 C.F.R. � 2.106 >Revised on May 4, 2007 >Disclaimer: The Table of Frequency Allocations as published by the >Federal Register remains the >legal source document. >Contact Tom Mooring at 202-418-2450 if you have any questions or comments. >" > >not listed == ain't legal >Especially equipment with significant power. >I'd suggest contacting a holder of a "First Class" commercial operator's >license -- either "Radio Telephone" or "Radio Telegraph" (they required >the same knowledge of regulations). > >You could get a local lead from "Chief Engineer" of a local commercial >broadcast station or possibly a local licensed radio amateur. > >My Second Class Radiotelephone Operator License expired 4/18/1968. >[I'm attempting to become as old as Jerry ;] >Thanks all for the input, but allow me to clarify. The ISM bands in the US include a section from 902-928 MHz. In the reference you cite this is just listed as Industrial, Scientific and Medical Equipment on P. 28. There are references, US218 on P135 and US275 on P138, which allude to the ISM devices being the primary users of the band. Some of the government notes say this as well. Generally ISM bands are reserved for high-powered "unintentional emitters", i.e., devices that radiate as a side effect to whatever it is they're doing (like MRI machines and Microwave ovens), or radiate intentionally for scientific or industrial or medical purposes other than communications. I know that MRI machines are one of the types of devices that use the 902-928MHz band (the ISM band in the US), I'm looking for other examples. FWIW, generally ISM devices are not limited in radiated power, the purpose of the ISM bands are to provide a place to go for machines that need to radiate a lot of power to do whatever it is they need to do. All other devices are secondary users of the band, and it winds up being used by things like cordless phones and other communication devices, but if ISM equipment interferes, tough, it's their band. The regs don't provide a list of ISM equipment, it would be too tough to maintain and go obsolete hourly. I was just hoping some people might know of other device examples that use the bands as ISM equipment under the ISM rules. I'm not as interested in the 2.4GHz portion of the ISM band, mostly the 902-928MHz portion. Eric Jacobsen Minister of Algorithms Abineau Communications http://www.ericjacobsen.org
