Energy detector

We do have a 32-bit floating point processor. ADSP 21160. I have used
energy detection because I thought it was the best for detecting unknown
signals as opposed to cross-correlation in active mode. So I may be wrong.
Is it so?

On Apr 26, 4:12 am, "Krishna_11_05" <mv_mail_box-jkri...@yahoo.co.in>
wrote:
> We do have a 32-bit floating point processor. ADSP 21160. I have used
> energy detection because I thought it was the best for detecting unknown
> signals as opposed to cross-correlation in active mode. So I may be wrong.
> Is it so?

So, what do you know and not know about the 'unknown signal'? Time of
arrival, duration, frequency, bandwidth, amplitude, modulation? How
many signals can arrive at once? How many different types of signals
do you want to use your detector for? What are the number of channels
and bandwidths? What are the computational resources available? To
what do we relate the meaning of 'best'?

What did you think of Nuttall's power-law detector approach when you
Googled on it and downloaded the free documentation on it? Does it
seem like what you are thinking of doing?

Why did you start a new thread instead of continuing the previous one?

Dale B. Dalrymple

On Apr 26, 3:03 pm, dbd <d...@ieee.org> wrote:
> On Apr 26, 4:12 am, "Krishna_11_05" <mv_mail_box-jkri...@yahoo.co.in>
> wrote:
>
> > We do have a 32-bit floating point processor. ADSP 21160. I have used
> > energy detection because I thought it was the best for detecting unknown
> > signals as opposed to cross-correlation in active mode. So I may be wrong.
> > Is it so?
>
> So, what do you know and not know about the 'unknown signal'? Time of
> arrival, duration, frequency, bandwidth, amplitude, modulation? How
> many signals can arrive at once? How many different types of signals
> do you want to use your detector for? What are the number of channels
> and bandwidths? What are the computational resources available? To
> what do we relate the meaning of 'best'?
>
> What did you think of Nuttall's power-law detector approach when you
> Googled on it and downloaded the free documentation on it? Does it
> seem like what you are thinking of doing?
>
> Why did you start a new thread instead of continuing the previous one?
>
> Dale B. Dalrymple

I'm interested in this topic. I did google it but didn't find much for
free, at least not in the first few pages. I'll check IEEE on Monday
when I get back to work.

John

On Apr 26, 5:52 pm, John <sampson...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 26, 3:03 pm, dbd <d...@ieee.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 26, 4:12 am, "Krishna_11_05" <mv_mail_box-jkri...@yahoo.co.in>
> > wrote:
>
> > > We do have a 32-bit floating point processor. ADSP 21160. I have used
> > > energy detection because I thought it was the best for detecting unknown
> > > signals as opposed to cross-correlation in active mode. So I may be wrong.
> > > Is it so?
>
> > So, what do you know and not know about the 'unknown signal'? Time of
> > arrival, duration, frequency, bandwidth, amplitude, modulation? How
> > many signals can arrive at once? How many different types of signals
> > do you want to use your detector for? What are the number of channels
> > and bandwidths? What are the computational resources available? To
> > what do we relate the meaning of 'best'?
>
> > What did you think of Nuttall's power-law detector approach when you
> > Googled on it and downloaded the free documentation on it? Does it
> > seem like what you are thinking of doing?
>
> > Why did you start a new thread instead of continuing the previous one?
>
> > Dale B. Dalrymple
>
> I'm interested in this topic. I did google it but didn't find much for
> free, at least not in the first few pages. I'll check IEEE on Monday
> when I get back to work.
>
> John

For

Nuttall power-law detector

I find 3 of the first 5 are freely downloadable. One from citeceer,
two from stinet. There's another one from DSTO within the first ten.
YMMV.

The two on stinet are Nuttall's original reports. These are also
available from ds.scientificcommons.org further on.

Dale B. Dalrymple

>On Apr 26, 4:12 am, "Krishna_11_05" <mv_mail_box-jkri...@yahoo.co.in>
>wrote:
>> We do have a 32-bit floating point processor. ADSP 21160. I have used
>> energy detection because I thought it was the best for detecting
unknown
>> signals as opposed to cross-correlation in active mode. So I may be
wrong.
>> Is it so?
>
>So, what do you know and not know about the 'unknown signal'? Time of
>arrival, duration, frequency, bandwidth, amplitude, modulation? How
>many signals can arrive at once? How many different types of signals
>do you want to use your detector for? What are the number of channels
>and bandwidths? What are the computational resources available? To
>what do we relate the meaning of 'best'?
>
>What did you think of Nuttall's power-law detector approach when you
>Googled on it and downloaded the free documentation on it? Does it
>seem like what you are thinking of doing?
>
>Why did you start a new thread instead of continuing the previous one?
>
>Dale B. Dalrymple
>
Thanks for the reply. I am sorry about the new thread. I am not a regular
here and so I goofed.
The unknown signal is basically unknown. I mean it can have any duration,
any repetition interval, any amplitude. I only know that it can come in
bursts and is not a continuous signal. I am trying to use this detector for
only two types of signals but how does that matter. In energy detector, I
can get the burst only. After that I analyze the burst for any interesting
information. There is only a single channel. Omni. Computational resources
are not a limitation.
I did not get any free Nuttall documenation. I will try the links you
suggested. Thanks.
Krishna.

On Apr 27, 5:39 am, "Krishna_11_05" <mv_mail_box-jkri...@yahoo.co.in>
wrote:
> >On Apr 26, 4:12 am, "Krishna_11_05" <mv_mail_box-jkri...@yahoo.co.in>
> >wrote:
> >> We do have a 32-bit floating point processor. ADSP 21160. I have used
> >> energy detection because I thought it was the best for detecting
> unknown
> >> signals as opposed to cross-correlation in active mode. So I may be
> wrong.
> >> Is it so?
>
> >So, what do you know and not know about the 'unknown signal'? Time of
> >arrival, duration, frequency, bandwidth, amplitude, modulation? How
> >many signals can arrive at once? How many different types of signals
> >do you want to use your detector for? What are the number of channels
> >and bandwidths? What are the computational resources available? To
> >what do we relate the meaning of 'best'?
>
> >What did you think of Nuttall's power-law detector approach when you
> >Googled on it and downloaded the free documentation on it? Does it
> >seem like what you are thinking of doing?
>
> >Why did you start a new thread instead of continuing the previous one?
>
> >Dale B. Dalrymple
>
> Thanks for the reply. I am sorry about the new thread. I am not a regular
> here and so I goofed.
> The unknown signal is basically unknown. I mean it can have any duration,
> any repetition interval, any amplitude. I only know that it can come in
> bursts and is not a continuous signal. I am trying to use this detector for
> only two types of signals but how does that matter. In energy detector, I
> can get the burst only. After that I analyze the burst for any interesting
> information. There is only a single channel. Omni. Computational resources
> are not a limitation.
> I did not get any free Nuttall documenation. I will try the links you
> suggested. Thanks.
> Krishna.

Krishna

Do you run your detector on time series data? Do you perform an FFT on
it first?

If you do an FFT, how big? And how did you decide to use that size?
How many bins does the signal appear in? These influence what detector
structure you could use.


John

The English language version should be:

http://en.scientificcommons.org

They seem to have picked up some US and Australian literature but not
the Canadian yet.

Dale B. Dalrymple

On Apr 27, 12:20 am, dbd <d...@ieee.org> wrote:
> On Apr 26, 5:52 pm, John <sampson...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 26, 3:03 pm, dbd <d...@ieee.org> wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 26, 4:12 am, "Krishna_11_05" <mv_mail_box-jkri...@yahoo.co.in>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > We do have a 32-bit floating point processor. ADSP 21160. I have used
> > > > energy detection because I thought it was the best for detecting unknown
> > > > signals as opposed to cross-correlation in active mode. So I may be wrong.
> > > > Is it so?
>
> > > So, what do you know and not know about the 'unknown signal'? Time of
> > > arrival, duration, frequency, bandwidth, amplitude, modulation? How
> > > many signals can arrive at once? How many different types of signals
> > > do you want to use your detector for? What are the number of channels
> > > and bandwidths? What are the computational resources available? To
> > > what do we relate the meaning of 'best'?
>
> > > What did you think of Nuttall's power-law detector approach when you
> > > Googled on it and downloaded the free documentation on it? Does it
> > > seem like what you are thinking of doing?
>
> > > Why did you start a new thread instead of continuing the previous one?
>
> > > Dale B. Dalrymple
>
> > I'm interested in this topic. I did google it but didn't find much for
> > free, at least not in the first few pages. I'll check IEEE on Monday
> > when I get back to work.
>
> > John
>
> For
>
> Nuttall power-law detector
>
> I find 3 of the first 5 are freely downloadable. One from citeceer,
> two from stinet. There's another one from DSTO within the first ten.
> YMMV.
>
> The two on stinet are Nuttall's original reports. These are also
> available from ds.scientificcommons.org further on.
>
> Dale B. Dalrymple

Aha, I found them, thank you!

John

>>Do you run your detector on time series data? Do you perform an FFT on
>it first?
>
>If you do an FFT, how big? And how did you decide to use that size?
>How many bins does the signal appear in? These influence what detector
>structure you could use.
>
>
>John
>
>The English language version should be:
>
>http://en.scientificcommons.org
>
>They seem to have picked up some US and Australian literature but not
>the Canadian yet.
>
>Dale B. Dalrymple
>

Yes. The detector is run on a time series data. No FFT is done. The raw
data after dynamic range compression is digitized and energy is computed.
It is compared to threshold which is also normalized energy of a large data
(3 times the amximum expected burs duration). I am taking energy for very
small time so that I get the time of arrival accurately. This does reduce
the SNR, but may be I have it. Atleast during testing.