Michael A. Terrell wrote:> rickman wrote: > >>On Jun 2, 12:17 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net> >>wrote: >> >>>rickman wrote: >>> >>> >>>>On Jun 1, 10:33 pm, ItsASecretDummy >>>><secretasian...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>>On Mon, 01 Jun 2009 17:40:20 -0700, John Larkin >>> >>>>><jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >>> >>>>>>Single-electron transistors can sense, well, single electrons. >>> >>>>>>John >>> >>>>> PMTs can be good enough to detect single photon events. >>> >>>>Hmmm... I have a $35 digital multimeter that can measure exactly 0 >>>>volts! >>> >>> No, it can't. It can display zero, even with some voltage at the >>>input. The issues is the resolution of the meter. Even with the probes >>>shorted, you will have some Johnson noise which is generated by the >>>resistors in the input circuitry, if the meter is above absolute zero >>>degrees. That voltage is too low to be displayed, but it is still there. >>> >>>-- >>>You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense! >> >>That was my point. It was supposed to be funny... I guess I needed >>to add the smiley. >> >>One of the things I have thought about is when in court defending a >>ticket for not stopping at a stop sign, asserting that there is no >>defense possible since you can never prove a quantity is exactly zero >>by measurement. Somehow I suspect the interesting aspects of this >>defense would be lost on the judge... > > > > Judges don't have a sense of humor, and most have no common sense. > >WRONG! If you had said "many" or possibly "most" that would be something else. For over three years I sat in on local Justice of Peace every Monday. Great entertainment! It was free, educational, and entertaining to boot.
What is the smallest physically-possible voltage that can be detected or processed given the state of today's technology?
Started by ●June 1, 2009
Reply by ●June 2, 20092009-06-02
Reply by ●June 2, 20092009-06-02
rickman wrote:> On Jun 2, 9:08 am, Jerry Avins <j...@ieee.org> wrote: >> rickman wrote: >> >> > On Jun 1, 10:33 pm, ItsASecretDummy > <secretasian...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote: >> >> >> On Mon, 01 Jun 2009 17:40:20 -0700, John Larkin >> >> >> <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> >>> Single-electron transistors can sense, well, single electrons. >> >>> John >> >> PMTs can be good enough to detect single photon events. >> > >> > Hmmm... I have a $35 digital multimeter that can measure exactly 0 >> > volts! >> >> How exactly? >> >> Jerry > > The usual way. It's not a magic voltmeter! > > RickI meant not "How, exactly", but "exact to what extent". Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. �����������������������������������������������������������������������
Reply by ●June 2, 20092009-06-02
On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 20:44:42 -0700 (PDT), rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:>On Jun 1, 10:33�pm, ItsASecretDummy ><secretasian...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote: >> On Mon, 01 Jun 2009 17:40:20 -0700, John Larkin >> >> <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >> >> >Single-electron transistors can sense, well, single electrons. >> >> >John >> >> � PMTs can be good enough to detect single photon events. > >Hmmm... I have a $35 digital multimeter that can measure exactly 0 >volts! > >RickNo... it cannot. In fact, nothing can.
Reply by ●June 2, 20092009-06-02
On Tue, 02 Jun 2009 00:17:44 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:> >rickman wrote: >> >> On Jun 1, 10:33 pm, ItsASecretDummy >> <secretasian...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote: >> > On Mon, 01 Jun 2009 17:40:20 -0700, John Larkin >> > >> > <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >> > >> > >Single-electron transistors can sense, well, single electrons. >> > >> > >John >> > >> > PMTs can be good enough to detect single photon events. >> >> Hmmm... I have a $35 digital multimeter that can measure exactly 0 >> volts! > > > No, it can't. It can display zero, even with some voltage at the >input. The issues is the resolution of the meter. Even with the probes >shorted, you will have some Johnson noise which is generated by the >resistors in the input circuitry, if the meter is above absolute zero >degrees. That voltage is too low to be displayed, but it is still there.Zero volts cannot be measured no matter what parasitics are in place or are not. Nothingness cannot be quantified. Only tangibles can. Zero is not tangible, it is the absence of tangibility.
Reply by ●June 2, 20092009-06-02
On Tue, 02 Jun 2009 00:19:17 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:> >Eric Gisse wrote: >> >> On Jun 1, 4:15 pm, GreenXenon <glucege...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > Hi: >> > >> > What is the smallest physically-possible voltage that can be detected >> > or processed given the state of today's technology? >> > >> > Thanks >> >> Oh my god please fuck off from sci.physics. We do not want you. > > > Just kill file the idiot. If no one replies, they will give up. >Trolls thrive on attention, so you have to starve them.We should all refrain from replying to your horseshit then.
Reply by ●June 2, 20092009-06-02
On Mon, 01 Jun 2009 21:28:02 -0700, John Larkin <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:>On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 20:44:42 -0700 (PDT), rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> >wrote: > >>On Jun 1, 10:33�pm, ItsASecretDummy >><secretasian...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote: >>> On Mon, 01 Jun 2009 17:40:20 -0700, John Larkin >>> >>> <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >>> >>> >Single-electron transistors can sense, well, single electrons. >>> >>> >John >>> >>> � PMTs can be good enough to detect single photon events. >> >>Hmmm... I have a $35 digital multimeter that can measure exactly 0 >>volts! >> >>Rick > >Yeah, but to how many percentage accuracy? > >JohnNo, as in: there is no such measurement capacity available anywhere on any device. Your statement has 'bent' grammar. Insert word "points" or choose different manner to ask same question as in: "to what degree of accuracy".
Reply by ●June 2, 20092009-06-02
On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 22:00:07 -0700, "Eric Jacobsen" <eric.jacobsen@ieee.org> wrote:> >"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message >news:CMudnRFLId9xOrnXnZ2dnUVZ_qCdnZ2d@earthlink.com... >> >> rickman wrote: >>> >>> On Jun 1, 10:33 pm, ItsASecretDummy >>> <secretasian...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote: >>> > On Mon, 01 Jun 2009 17:40:20 -0700, John Larkin >>> > >>> > <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >>> > >>> > >Single-electron transistors can sense, well, single electrons. >>> > >>> > >John >>> > >>> > PMTs can be good enough to detect single photon events. >>> >>> Hmmm... I have a $35 digital multimeter that can measure exactly 0 >>> volts! >> >> >> No, it can't. It can display zero, even with some voltage at the >> input. The issues is the resolution of the meter. Even with the probes >> shorted, you will have some Johnson noise which is generated by the >> resistors in the input circuitry, if the meter is above absolute zero >> degrees. That voltage is too low to be displayed, but it is still there. >> >> >> -- >> You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense! > >Yeah, but when it's exactly zero volts, that what the $35 multimeter will >display,] Not if it is turned on it wont.> so he wasn't incorrect.Oh yes he was, and so is most of the other responses to him. If the meter is off, there will be no display. If it is on, it will not be very likely to read zero volts when probing a bare piece of metal or shorting the leads. Like a scale that has been zeroed, one will see drift above and below the zero line if the scale can resolve to tenths of a gram. It will also drift as the internal electronics heats up. Not so much with a meter as with scale electronics, for some reason. So if the meter has more than 2 digits behind the decimal point, one will likely see errant values pop in and out.
Reply by ●June 2, 20092009-06-02
On Jun 2, 9:40�pm, ItsASecretDummy <secretasian...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote:> On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 22:00:07 -0700, "Eric Jacobsen" > > > > > > <eric.jacob...@ieee.org> wrote: > > >"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message > >news:CMudnRFLId9xOrnXnZ2dnUVZ_qCdnZ2d@earthlink.com... > > >> rickman wrote: > > >>> On Jun 1, 10:33 pm, ItsASecretDummy > >>> <secretasian...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote: > >>> > On Mon, 01 Jun 2009 17:40:20 -0700, John Larkin > > >>> > <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: > > >>> > >Single-electron transistors can sense, well, single electrons. > > >>> > >John > > >>> > � PMTs can be good enough to detect single photon events. > > >>> Hmmm... �I have a $35 digital multimeter that can measure exactly 0 > >>> volts! > > >> � �No, it can't. �It can display zero, even with some voltage at the > >> input. �The issues is the resolution of the meter. �Even with the probes > >> shorted, you will have some Johnson noise which is generated by the > >> resistors in the input circuitry, if the meter is above absolute zero > >> degrees. That voltage is too low to be displayed, but it is still there. > > >> -- > >> You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense! > > >Yeah, but when it's exactly zero volts, that what the $35 multimeter will > >display, > > ] �Not if it is turned on it wont. > > > so he wasn't incorrect. > > � Oh yes he was, and so is most of the other responses to him. > > � If the meter is off, there will be no display. �If it is on, it will > not be very likely to read zero volts when probing a bare piece of metal > or shorting the leads. > > � Like a scale that has been zeroed, one will see drift above and below > the zero line if the scale can resolve to tenths of a gram. �It will also > drift as the internal electronics heats up. Not so much with a meter as > with scale electronics, for some reason. > > � So if the meter has more than 2 digits behind the decimal point, one > will likely see errant values pop in and out.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -YOUY ARE FULL OF ESCREMENT TROLL BUGGER OFF TO YOUR USUAL NAME PLACE AND TIME I AM PROTEUS
Reply by ●June 2, 20092009-06-02
On Tue, 02 Jun 2009 18:03:42 +1000, F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> wrote:>Eric Gisse wrote: >> On Jun 1, 4:15 pm, GreenXenon <glucege...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Hi: >>> >>> What is the smallest physically-possible voltage that can be detected >>> or processed given the state of today's technology? >>> >>> Thanks >> >> Oh my god please fuck off from sci.physics. We do not want you. >Is there any one in this group with the necessary scholastic >qualifications to diagnose the reason this poster asks such esoteric >questionsThe little twit "takes" responsibility for exercising our brains. He feels that posts that get responses and incite discussion means that he was the one that got us going, so he feels vindicated for all the crap he never got done in real life.
Reply by ●June 2, 20092009-06-02
On Tue, 2 Jun 2009 06:17:53 -0700 (PDT), GreenXenon <glucegen1x@gmail.com> wrote:>On Jun 1, 5:40 pm, John Larkin ><jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: > >> You can buy nanovoltmeters that will resolve a couple of hundred >> picovolts, if you're careful. >> >> Superconductive SQUID detectors can measure a picovolt. >> >> Single-electron transistors can sense, well, single electrons. > > >Are there any devices that can detect, receive, record, playback, >modulate/demodulate, transmit and/or otherwise process signals with >peak-to-peak amplitudes around 1 femtovolt?Yes, your FM receiver. Usually takes 3 or more though. We call them radios. Satellite and deep space radio waves exhibit even less energy. That what the big concentrator dishes are for.
