Help choosing a DSP starter kit.

Sorry for bothering you with the question that you probably heard a hundred
times...

I'm new to DSPs and would like to buy a DSP starter kit to learn. I'd like
to have some practical results from this work, so I aim to develop an audio
processing unit taking stereo audio signal from CD, upsampling it, applying
some filters and putting it out through high sample rate DACs (192 kHz, 5
channels would be better but I guess 4 will work for start).  
Please help me identify not very expensive kit that would better serve my
project.

Thanks! 

"Decay" <dan_nomad@mail.ru> writes:

> Sorry for bothering you with the question that you probably heard a hundred
> times...
>
> I'm new to DSPs and would like to buy a DSP starter kit to learn. I'd like
> to have some practical results from this work, so I aim to develop an audio
> processing unit taking stereo audio signal from CD, upsampling it, applying
> some filters and putting it out through high sample rate DACs (192 kHz, 5
> channels would be better but I guess 4 will work for start).  
> Please help me identify not very expensive kit that would better serve my
> project.

I suggest that you first identify the application area that you'd like
to work in. Broadly, those could be: audio, communications, or video. 
I would then look for starter kits from the following based on area:

  audio: Freescale, TI 55x
  communications TI 55x, 64x
  video: TI 64x, DaVinci.

-- 
%  Randy Yates                  % "The dreamer, the unwoken fool - 
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC            %  in dreams, no pain will kiss the brow..."
%%% 919-577-9882                %  
%%%% <yates@ieee.org>           % 'Eldorado Overture', *Eldorado*, ELO
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

>
>I suggest that you first identify the application area that you'd like
>to work in. Broadly, those could be: audio, communications, or video. 
>I would then look for starter kits from the following based on area:
>
>  audio: Freescale, TI 55x
>  communications TI 55x, 64x
>  video: TI 64x, DaVinci.
>
>-- 
>%  Randy Yates                  % "The dreamer, the unwoken fool - 
>%% Fuquay-Varina, NC            %  in dreams, no pain will kiss the
brow..."
>%%% 919-577-9882                %  
>%%%% <yates@ieee.org>           % 'Eldorado Overture', *Eldorado*, ELO
>http://www.digitalsignallabs.com
>

Hi, thank you for your reply. As I outlined earlier I'd like to work in
audio area. Also some specifics: ADC is not required on the board, 4 or 5
ch DAC (96 or 192 kHz). Not sure about the speed, I guess most DSPs can
handle simple filtering of 5 ch in real time. 
So you advise for 55xx series board. As I see this is low power fixed
point dsp. What is better for high quality real time audio processing
fixed or floating point?
Also this is low power chip, I don't think it's critical in my case, are
there any trade-offs related to low power consumtion?
The only 55xx kit I was able to find on TI's site is 5509 one, and it
doesn't seem to have 5 output channels (DACs)... However 24 bit is good.
Is there any specific kit you have in mind for my application?

"Decay" <dan_nomad@mail.ru> writes:

>>
>>I suggest that you first identify the application area that you'd like
>>to work in. Broadly, those could be: audio, communications, or video. 
>>I would then look for starter kits from the following based on area:
>>
>>  audio: Freescale, TI 55x
>>  communications TI 55x, 64x
>>  video: TI 64x, DaVinci.
>>
>>-- 
>>%  Randy Yates                  % "The dreamer, the unwoken fool - 
>>%% Fuquay-Varina, NC            %  in dreams, no pain will kiss the
> brow..."
>>%%% 919-577-9882                %  
>>%%%% <yates@ieee.org>           % 'Eldorado Overture', *Eldorado*, ELO
>>http://www.digitalsignallabs.com
>>
>
> Hi, thank you for your reply. As I outlined earlier I'd like to work in
> audio area. Also some specifics: ADC is not required on the board, 4 or 5
> ch DAC (96 or 192 kHz). Not sure about the speed, I guess most DSPs can
> handle simple filtering of 5 ch in real time. 
> So you advise for 55xx series board. As I see this is low power fixed
> point dsp. What is better for high quality real time audio processing
> fixed or floating point?
> Also this is low power chip, I don't think it's critical in my case, are
> there any trade-offs related to low power consumtion?
> The only 55xx kit I was able to find on TI's site is 5509 one, and it
> doesn't seem to have 5 output channels (DACs)... However 24 bit is good.
> Is there any specific kit you have in mind for my application?

You're right that the 55x is lowpower and not really well-suited for
high-quality audio. It is often used in the audio chain for cellphones
and, I think in some cases, hearing aids, so it does have a role in the
audio field - just a certain specific part. I should also mention that
Ceva is a player in this field with (have they updated this?) the
Oak/Teak families of DSPs.

If you're interested in multi-channel, high-quality audio, I suspect the
Freescale line is the way to go. Somebody back me up (or correct me). I
don't have experience with Freescale so I can't quote EVM kits, etc.,
but that's the direction I'd go.

The choice of data format (fixed-point or floating-point) is not
orthogonal to processor choice but actually very dependent on
it. However, if you had freedom to choose, there's not an obvious
choice. My preference, for high-quality, high resolution audio, would be
for fixed-point since you can more explicitly control the
(re)quantization on such machines.
-- 
%  Randy Yates                  % "I met someone who looks alot like you,
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC            %             she does the things you do, 
%%% 919-577-9882                %                     but she is an IBM."
%%%% <yates@ieee.org>           %        'Yours Truly, 2095', *Time*, ELO   
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

Randy Yates <yates@ieee.org> wrote in news:m3sl3lai13.fsf@ieee.org:

> "Decay" <dan_nomad@mail.ru> writes:
> 
>>>
>>>I suggest that you first identify the application area that you'd
>>>like to work in. Broadly, those could be: audio, communications, or
>>>video. I would then look for starter kits from the following based on
>>>area: 
>>>
>>>  audio: Freescale, TI 55x
>>>  communications TI 55x, 64x
>>>  video: TI 64x, DaVinci.
>>>
>>>-- 
>>>%  Randy Yates                  % "The dreamer, the unwoken fool - 
>>>%% Fuquay-Varina, NC            %  in dreams, no pain will kiss the
>> brow..."
>>>%%% 919-577-9882                %  
>>>%%%% <yates@ieee.org>           % 'Eldorado Overture', *Eldorado*,
>>>ELO http://www.digitalsignallabs.com
>>>
>>
>> Hi, thank you for your reply. As I outlined earlier I'd like to work
>> in audio area. Also some specifics: ADC is not required on the board,
>> 4 or 5 ch DAC (96 or 192 kHz). Not sure about the speed, I guess most
>> DSPs can handle simple filtering of 5 ch in real time. 
>> So you advise for 55xx series board. As I see this is low power fixed
>> point dsp. What is better for high quality real time audio processing
>> fixed or floating point?
>> Also this is low power chip, I don't think it's critical in my case,
>> are there any trade-offs related to low power consumtion?
>> The only 55xx kit I was able to find on TI's site is 5509 one, and it
>> doesn't seem to have 5 output channels (DACs)... However 24 bit is
>> good. Is there any specific kit you have in mind for my application?
> 
> You're right that the 55x is lowpower and not really well-suited for
> high-quality audio. It is often used in the audio chain for cellphones
> and, I think in some cases, hearing aids, so it does have a role in
> the audio field - just a certain specific part. I should also mention
> that Ceva is a player in this field with (have they updated this?) the
> Oak/Teak families of DSPs.
> 
> If you're interested in multi-channel, high-quality audio, I suspect
> the Freescale line is the way to go. Somebody back me up (or correct
> me). I don't have experience with Freescale so I can't quote EVM kits,
> etc., but that's the direction I'd go.
> 
> The choice of data format (fixed-point or floating-point) is not
> orthogonal to processor choice but actually very dependent on
> it. However, if you had freedom to choose, there's not an obvious
> choice. My preference, for high-quality, high resolution audio, would
> be for fixed-point since you can more explicitly control the
> (re)quantization on such machines.


Randy, Randy, Randy.....

Analog Devices has the largest market share in the audio space 
(discounting telephony & cell phones) and you didn't even mention them. 
ADI's SHARC dethroned the Motorola (now Freescale) 56K family at least 5 
years ago. Blackfin is increasingly popular for low power audio targets.

The SHARC is both a 32 bit fixed point and 32/40 bit floating point DSP. 
It works very well for audio. I would suggest an ADI 21369 EZ-KIT or one 
of our systems with an appropriate I/O board. We include the EZ-KIT 
debugger on our development boards so you don't need to buy a full tool 
set (it puts our boards on an equal footing with the manufacturers dev 
boards).

Al Clark
Danville Signal Processing, Inc. 

Al Clark <aclark@danvillesignal.com> writes:

> Randy, Randy, Randy.....
>
> Analog Devices has the largest market share in the audio space 
> (discounting telephony & cell phones) and you didn't even mention them. 
> ADI's SHARC dethroned the Motorola (now Freescale) 56K family at least 5 
> years ago. Blackfin is increasingly popular for low power audio targets.
>
> The SHARC is both a 32 bit fixed point and 32/40 bit floating point DSP. 
> It works very well for audio. I would suggest an ADI 21369 EZ-KIT or one 
> of our systems with an appropriate I/O board. We include the EZ-KIT 
> debugger on our development boards so you don't need to buy a full tool 
> set (it puts our boards on an equal footing with the manufacturers dev 
> boards).

Doh! Thanks for the correction, Al. To the OP: Sorry for the mis-direct.

I think I'm getting old. I forgot about the SHARC's 32-bit fixed-point
multiply with 80-bit accumulator. Yes, that is a NICE setup for
high-resolution audio processing (if power/space isn't an issue)!
-- 
%  Randy Yates                  % "Ticket to the moon, flight leaves here today 
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC            %  from Satellite 2"
%%% 919-577-9882                % 'Ticket To The Moon' 
%%%% <yates@ieee.org>           % *Time*, Electric Light Orchestra
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

On Nov 4, 5:12 am, "Decay" <dan_no...@mail.ru> wrote:
> Sorry for bothering you with the question that you probably heard a hundred
> times...
>
> I'm new to DSPs and would like to buy a DSP starter kit to learn. I'd like
> to have some practical results from this work, so I aim to develop an audio
> processing unit taking stereo audio signal from CD, upsampling it, applying
> some filters and putting it out through high sample rate DACs (192 kHz, 5
> channels would be better but I guess 4 will work for start).
> Please help me identify not very expensive kit that would better serve my
> project.
>
> Thanks!

You could try the Avnet website (http://www.em.avnet.com/), which has
a variety of eval boards for the components that Avnet distributes. A
quick look revealed that they do have some SHARC eval boards which
have codecs.

Thanks to everyone!

Looks like ADSP SHARC 21262/21364 kits are the most straightforward
choice. BF533 seems to be an overkill, while other boards (like TI ones)
need daughterboards to be properly selected to provide same functions...

On Nov 6, 3:38 pm, "Decay" <dan_no...@mail.ru> wrote:
> Thanks to everyone!
>
> Looks like ADSP SHARC 21262/21364 kits are the most straightforward
> choice. BF533 seems to be an overkill, while other boards (like TI ones)
> need daughterboards to be properly selected to provide same functions...

So the Avnet boards must have hit your price range?

>On Nov 6, 3:38 pm, "Decay" <dan_no...@mail.ru> wrote:
>> Thanks to everyone!
>>
>> Looks like ADSP SHARC 21262/21364 kits are the most straightforward
>> choice. BF533 seems to be an overkill, while other boards (like TI
ones)
>> need daughterboards to be properly selected to provide same
functions...
>
>So the Avnet boards must have hit your price range?
>
>

Good question, thanx.

Not really actually. But I now do not see any adequate alternative. With
the requirements I listed all kits start at $500.
Danville boards seem to provide more flexibility, and less pricing for
each component, but end up in the same price, or even higher for the given
configuration.
For TI's, I wasn't able to find the combination of board+extensions to get
a price quote for the whole. In some cases TI site bumped into "Page not
found", in others - my experience wasn't enough to select appropriate HW
among all the options. If anyone knows how to get good combination of
board/daughter-board(s) at less than $500 - I'll appreciate any info.

Thanks