On May 14, 1:00 pm, Randy Yates <ya...@ieee.org> wrote:> robert bristow-johnson <r...@audioimagination.com> writes: > > [...] > > a mistake that Bob Adams didn't repeat in the Sigma DSP) > > What is this "Sigma DSP"? Ok, wait - I've got Google. But > it's new to me.try AD1940 and AD1941. but there might now be even newer chips. i heard that they are now able to do conditional branching like a decent computer can do. r b-j
Audio DSP Micro ?
Started by ●May 14, 2008
Reply by ●May 14, 20082008-05-14
Reply by ●May 14, 20082008-05-14
On May 14, 9:53 am, robert bristow-johnson <r...@audioimagination.com> wrote:> On May 14, 11:08 am, Richard Dobson <richarddob...@blueyonder.co.uk> > wrote: > > > > > RealInfo wrote: > > > Hi All > > > > I need some suitable DSP oriented microprocessor to do some audio > > > effects with it like ECHO , FUZZ , TREMOLLO etc . > > > > My question is which DSP micros are popular/suitable in the guitar/audio > > > effects industry ? > > > The Freescale 56xxx series (prev. motorola) are still very popular for > > audio. For guitarists a most interesting product is the Line6 "Tonecore" > > SDK, which provides a dsp development kit in the form of an effects > > pedal plugin module: > > >http://www.vettaville.nl/page.php?id=100#609 > > ya know, Richard, that is not a bad idea at all. in the olden days, > one could develop on the 56K using their inexpensive (and now, hard to > find) DSP56002EVM or, alternatively, on a Turtle Beach Tahiti, > Monterey, Fiji, or Pinnacle using a C-based loader/monitor/debugger > thingie i developed. > > but if Line6 and Freescale put this together well, i presume this > ToneCore DSP Developer Kit (does it include the 563xx assembler? do > you need a C compiler?) might be precisely what the OP wants. > > i *liked* coding on the 56K back in the days that i did (and i was > known here as a 56K partisan). it wasn't the biggest, most powerful > DSP, but it was good enough and general enough to do what one needed > to do. leaving out convolutional reverb and frequency-domain pitch > shifting (or any frequency-domain alg), the 56K could do about > anything one can dream up. it was (or *is*, i guess it actually > didn't die even though i thought it did 5 or 6 years ago) a pleasant > chip to code on (despite a couple of stupidities like how A0 and B0, > the least-significant words in the 56 bit accumulators, were lined up > - it's one bit off, a mistake that Bob Adams didn't repeat in the > Sigma DSP), though not the most powerful nor biggest chip to code on.Freescale also has a fairly inexpensive ($150) development system for the DSP56371 processor. It includes a free Eclipse/GCC/GDB development IDE and a USB connection to your PC for code download & debug. 8 channels audio in, 8 channels audio out (two of which can be optical SPDIF) and a few dip switches and LEDs. More info here: http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=SYMP_SOUNDBITE&nodeId=0127952D4A2D79 The DSP56371 has a nifty filter accelerator built-in that can offload some of the DSP from the main processor. Good for FIRs mostly, but also has some IIR features. Eric
Reply by ●May 14, 20082008-05-14
Vladimir Vassilevsky <antispam_bogus@hotmail.com> wrote in news:NVCWj.7174 $3O7.4048@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net:> > > Al Clark wrote: > > >> The Analog Devices' Blackfin is great processor for stomp boxes. They are >> very fast and low power. > > BlackFin is not exactly very fast no very low power. It can only do > 16x16=32 MACs; the 32x32=64 MAC is PITA with it. > > > Vladimir Vassilevsky > DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant > http://www.abvolt.comIt's very fast when you consider the requirements of a stomp box. If I used it for this purpose, I would probably run the core at low voltage and run well below its maximum core clock. This reduces the power consumption significantly. SigmaDSP is very compact since it includes data converters. I'm not sure its flexible enough. Maybe Bob Adams will comment? Maybe a new 56K part would be reasonable but I can't see using an old 56002 for anything new. I know of designs that used an old ADI ADSP-2105 for this kind of application, but I wouldn't do a new design this way either. They are both from the same era. Al Clark Danville Signal Processing, Inc.
Reply by ●May 14, 20082008-05-14
Al Clark wrote:> Vladimir Vassilevsky <antispam_bogus@hotmail.com> wrote: >>Al Clark wrote: >> >>>The Analog Devices' Blackfin is great processor for stomp boxes. They are >>>very fast and low power. >> >>BlackFin is not exactly very fast no very low power. It can only do >>16x16=32 MACs; the 32x32=64 MAC is PITA with it. >> > It's very fast when you consider the requirements of a stomp box. If I used > it for this purpose, I would probably run the core at low voltage and run > well below its maximum core clock. This reduces the power consumption > significantly.Not too long ago I measured the power consumption of BF-534 at 24MHz bus/core clock, with the core in the idle most of time. It drains about 80mA from 3.3V. I didn't adjust the core voltage; however 80mA is no small current.> SigmaDSP is very compact since it includes data converters. I'm not sure its > flexible enough. Maybe Bob Adams will comment?The audio processors with ADCs/DACs are offered by TI, AKM, NXP.> Maybe a new 56K part would be reasonable but I can't see using an old 56002 > for anything new. I know of designs that used an old ADI ADSP-2105 for this > kind of application, but I wouldn't do a new design this way either. They are > both from the same era.There are some neat new parts in the 56k family. On the low end, there are also dsPIC and TMS24xx.> Al Clark > Danville Signal Processing, Inc.Vladimir Vassilevsky DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant http://www.abvolt.com
Reply by ●May 15, 20082008-05-15
On Wed, 14 May 2008 22:57:18 GMT, Al Clark <aclark@danvillesignal.com> wrote:>Vladimir Vassilevsky <antispam_bogus@hotmail.com> wrote in news:NVCWj.7174 >$3O7.4048@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net: >> Al Clark wrote: >>> The Analog Devices' Blackfin is great processor for stomp boxes. They are >>> very fast and low power. >> >> BlackFin is not exactly very fast no very low power. It can only do >> 16x16=32 MACs; the 32x32=64 MAC is PITA with it. >> >> >> Vladimir Vassilevsky >> DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant >> http://www.abvolt.com > >It's very fast when you consider the requirements of a stomp box. If I used >it for this purpose, I would probably run the core at low voltage and run >well below its maximum core clock. This reduces the power consumption >significantly.Perhaps I'm on the wrong track here, but the AD1940/41 seemed to operate on 2.5-5V. I would be very surprised if such a processor could match the MIPS/mW of a 1.2V or lower core.>SigmaDSP is very compact since it includes data converters. I'm not sure its >flexible enough. Maybe Bob Adams will comment?The AD1940/41 didn't seem to have any ADCs or DACs What parts are you looking at?
Reply by ●May 15, 20082008-05-15
Originally I was asking info for building a MULTI EFFECT pedal , meaning that SEVERAL effects can be active and chained at the same time , for example delay > eq > noise gate etc . So my question is which dsp core can do that multi effect ? Thanks in advance . ec "Tony" <tony@nowhere.com.au> ??? ??????:e3dn24dvfa8mqi8c14jbqvrnhd3imppqu8@4ax.com...> On Wed, 14 May 2008 22:57:18 GMT, Al Clark <aclark@danvillesignal.com> > wrote: >>Vladimir Vassilevsky <antispam_bogus@hotmail.com> wrote in news:NVCWj.7174 >>$3O7.4048@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net: >>> Al Clark wrote: >>>> The Analog Devices' Blackfin is great processor for stomp boxes. They >>>> are >>>> very fast and low power. >>> >>> BlackFin is not exactly very fast no very low power. It can only do >>> 16x16=32 MACs; the 32x32=64 MAC is PITA with it. >>> >>> >>> Vladimir Vassilevsky >>> DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant >>> http://www.abvolt.com >> >>It's very fast when you consider the requirements of a stomp box. If I >>used >>it for this purpose, I would probably run the core at low voltage and run >>well below its maximum core clock. This reduces the power consumption >>significantly. > > Perhaps I'm on the wrong track here, but the AD1940/41 seemed to operate > on 2.5-5V. I > would be very surprised if such a processor could match the MIPS/mW of a > 1.2V or lower > core. > >>SigmaDSP is very compact since it includes data converters. I'm not sure >>its >>flexible enough. Maybe Bob Adams will comment? > > The AD1940/41 didn't seem to have any ADCs or DACs > > What parts are you looking at?
Reply by ●May 15, 20082008-05-15
On 15 Mai, 08:39, "RealInfo" <therighti...@yahoo.com> wrote:> Originally I was asking info for building a MULTI EFFECT pedal , meaning > that SEVERAL > effects can be active and chained at the same time , for example delay > eq > �> noise gate etc . > > So my question is which dsp core can do that multi effect ?While there may be enough computational power available in cutting-edge DSPs to achieve lots of stuff, the logistics of chaining lots of demanding and different operations in one core might become a little bit too much for DSP cores. And then there is the flexibility issues involved by the user wanting to exclude some effects, or chain them in a different order than the programmer considered. Such logistics issues can easily account for 90% or more of the programming effort. The reason why systems are built up as simple modules is that it is easy to make them interact robustly and have the user chain them as he wants. Rune
Reply by ●May 15, 20082008-05-15
> The AD1940/41 didn't seem to have any ADCs or DACs > > What parts are you looking at?Example the ADAU1401 http://www.analog.com/en/prod/0,,765_804_ADAU1401%2C00.html TI has some similar parts, like the TAS3103A (??) http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/tas3103a.html I believe there is a blackfin part with a built in ADC/DAC as well.
Reply by ●May 15, 20082008-05-15
'''' "emeb" <ebrombaugh@gmail.com> ??? ??????:f9f69a59-4c21-443c-901d-ef5a01f51f95@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...> On May 14, 9:53 am, robert bristow-johnson <r...@audioimagination.com> > wrote: >> On May 14, 11:08 am, Richard Dobson <richarddob...@blueyonder.co.uk> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> > RealInfo wrote: >> > > Hi All >> >> > > I need some suitable DSP oriented microprocessor to do some audio >> > > effects with it like ECHO , FUZZ , TREMOLLO etc . >> >> > > My question is which DSP micros are popular/suitable in the >> > > guitar/audio >> > > effects industry ? >> >> > The Freescale 56xxx series (prev. motorola) are still very popular for >> > audio. For guitarists a most interesting product is the Line6 >> > "Tonecore" >> > SDK, which provides a dsp development kit in the form of an effects >> > pedal plugin module: >> >> >http://www.vettaville.nl/page.php?id=100#609 >> >> ya know, Richard, that is not a bad idea at all. in the olden days, >> one could develop on the 56K using their inexpensive (and now, hard to >> find) DSP56002EVM or, alternatively, on a Turtle Beach Tahiti, >> Monterey, Fiji, or Pinnacle using a C-based loader/monitor/debugger >> thingie i developed. >> >> but if Line6 and Freescale put this together well, i presume this >> ToneCore DSP Developer Kit (does it include the 563xx assembler? do >> you need a C compiler?) might be precisely what the OP wants. >> >> i *liked* coding on the 56K back in the days that i did (and i was >> known here as a 56K partisan). it wasn't the biggest, most powerful >> DSP, but it was good enough and general enough to do what one needed >> to do. leaving out convolutional reverb and frequency-domain pitch >> shifting (or any frequency-domain alg), the 56K could do about >> anything one can dream up. it was (or *is*, i guess it actually >> didn't die even though i thought it did 5 or 6 years ago) a pleasant >> chip to code on (despite a couple of stupidities like how A0 and B0, >> the least-significant words in the 56 bit accumulators, were lined up >> - it's one bit off, a mistake that Bob Adams didn't repeat in the >> Sigma DSP), though not the most powerful nor biggest chip to code on. > > Freescale also has a fairly inexpensive ($150) development system for > the DSP56371 processor. It includes a free Eclipse/GCC/GDB development > IDE and a USB connection to your PC for code download & debug. 8 > channels audio in, 8 channels audio out (two of which can be optical > SPDIF) and a few dip switches and LEDs. More info here: > > http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=SYMP_SOUNDBITE&nodeId=0127952D4A2D79 > > The DSP56371 has a nifty filter accelerator built-in that can offload > some of the DSP from the main processor. Good for FIRs mostly, but > also has some IIR features. > > Eric >
Reply by ●May 15, 20082008-05-15
Many thanks to all those who took time to answer my question and to send away the fog ... Looks to me that since multi effect with multi chaining options is my goal , the best approach wolud be implementing each effect kind - fuzz, tremollo , reverb , eq , noise gate etc... with traditional good old analog discrete ics and transistors and diodes . Some control unit that is FPGA or some simple uc like 8051 that will do the user interfacing and the chaining etc would be best option . If multi chaining is not needed then implementing the desired effect would be best done with the good old way .. Relying on a single DSP core for that will be waste of time and effort . What do you think ? EC "RealInfo" <therightinfo@yahoo.com> ��� ������:g0hj3j$f1h$1@news4.netvision.net.il...> '''' > "emeb" <ebrombaugh@gmail.com> ??? > ??????:f9f69a59-4c21-443c-901d-ef5a01f51f95@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... >> On May 14, 9:53 am, robert bristow-johnson <r...@audioimagination.com> >> wrote: >>> On May 14, 11:08 am, Richard Dobson <richarddob...@blueyonder.co.uk> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> > RealInfo wrote: >>> > > Hi All >>> >>> > > I need some suitable DSP oriented microprocessor to do some audio >>> > > effects with it like ECHO , FUZZ , TREMOLLO etc . >>> >>> > > My question is which DSP micros are popular/suitable in the >>> > > guitar/audio >>> > > effects industry ? >>> >>> > The Freescale 56xxx series (prev. motorola) are still very popular for >>> > audio. For guitarists a most interesting product is the Line6 >>> > "Tonecore" >>> > SDK, which provides a dsp development kit in the form of an effects >>> > pedal plugin module: >>> >>> >http://www.vettaville.nl/page.php?id=100#609 >>> >>> ya know, Richard, that is not a bad idea at all. in the olden days, >>> one could develop on the 56K using their inexpensive (and now, hard to >>> find) DSP56002EVM or, alternatively, on a Turtle Beach Tahiti, >>> Monterey, Fiji, or Pinnacle using a C-based loader/monitor/debugger >>> thingie i developed. >>> >>> but if Line6 and Freescale put this together well, i presume this >>> ToneCore DSP Developer Kit (does it include the 563xx assembler? do >>> you need a C compiler?) might be precisely what the OP wants. >>> >>> i *liked* coding on the 56K back in the days that i did (and i was >>> known here as a 56K partisan). it wasn't the biggest, most powerful >>> DSP, but it was good enough and general enough to do what one needed >>> to do. leaving out convolutional reverb and frequency-domain pitch >>> shifting (or any frequency-domain alg), the 56K could do about >>> anything one can dream up. it was (or *is*, i guess it actually >>> didn't die even though i thought it did 5 or 6 years ago) a pleasant >>> chip to code on (despite a couple of stupidities like how A0 and B0, >>> the least-significant words in the 56 bit accumulators, were lined up >>> - it's one bit off, a mistake that Bob Adams didn't repeat in the >>> Sigma DSP), though not the most powerful nor biggest chip to code on. >> >> Freescale also has a fairly inexpensive ($150) development system for >> the DSP56371 processor. It includes a free Eclipse/GCC/GDB development >> IDE and a USB connection to your PC for code download & debug. 8 >> channels audio in, 8 channels audio out (two of which can be optical >> SPDIF) and a few dip switches and LEDs. More info here: >> >> http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=SYMP_SOUNDBITE&nodeId=0127952D4A2D79 >> >> The DSP56371 has a nifty filter accelerator built-in that can offload >> some of the DSP from the main processor. Good for FIRs mostly, but >> also has some IIR features. >> >> Eric >> > >
