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I read about gigabit ethernet. They seems very similar. The echo is just what to you emit and cross-talk is emitted by your neighbor. So, in this case, can echo-cancellation tech. be used for cross-talk elimination? |
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What the difference between the cross-talk and echo-cancellation?
Started by ●January 13, 2002
Reply by ●January 14, 20022002-01-14
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Echo cancellation uses a reference signal, i.e. what you are transmitting/sending/speaking. In the case of echo you know what you are emmitting so it is not difficult to remove an attenuated and delayed version of something you know. In the case of cross-talk, the unwanted signal is unknown. For cross-talk there is no refence signal available, therefor the traditional techniques used in echo cancellation do not apply for cross-talk. >From: "chenweigian" <> >Reply-To: >To: >Subject: [echocancel] What the difference between the cross-talk and >echo-cancellation? >Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 13:58:40 -0000 > >I read about gigabit ethernet. They seems very similar. The echo is >just what to you emit and cross-talk is emitted by your neighbor. >So, in this case, can echo-cancellation tech. be used for cross-talk >elimination? _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com |
Reply by ●January 15, 20022002-01-15
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hi, Isn't cross talk detection is more similar with double talk detection in Echo canceller? atanu ----- Original Message ----- From: "mike belanger" <> To: <> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 7:41 PM Subject: Re: [echocancel] What the difference between the cross-talk and echo-cancellation? > Echo cancellation uses a reference signal, i.e. what you are > transmitting/sending/speaking. In the case of echo you know what you are > emmitting so it is not difficult to remove an attenuated and delayed version > of something you know. In the case of cross-talk, the unwanted signal is > unknown. For cross-talk there is no refence signal available, therefor the > traditional techniques used in echo cancellation do not apply for > cross-talk. > >From: "chenweigian" <> > >Reply-To: > >To: > >Subject: [echocancel] What the difference between the cross-talk and > >echo-cancellation? > >Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 13:58:40 -0000 > > > >I read about gigabit ethernet. They seems very similar. The echo is > >just what to you emit and cross-talk is emitted by your neighbor. > >So, in this case, can echo-cancellation tech. be used for cross-talk > >elimination? > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > > _____________________________________ > Note: If you do a simple "reply" with your email client, only the author of this message will receive your answer. You need to do a "reply all" if you want your answer to be distributed to the entire group. > > _____________________________________ > About this discussion group: > > To Join: > > To Post: > > To Leave: > > Archives: http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/echocancel > > Other DSP-Related Groups: http://www.dsprelated.com > ">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > |
Reply by ●January 15, 20022002-01-15
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I agree that cross-talk detection would be more similar to double talk detection. However the original question asked about elimination. In general, an echo canceller does not eliminate the double-talk. It simply stops updating when double-talk has been detected so that the echo canceller remains stable. >From: "Atanu Guchhait" <> >Reply-To: >To: <> >Subject: Re: [echocancel] What the difference between the cross-talk and >echo-cancellation? >Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:46:51 +0530 > >hi, >Isn't cross talk detection is more similar with double talk detection in >Echo canceller? > >atanu > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "mike belanger" <> >To: <> >Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 7:41 PM >Subject: Re: [echocancel] What the difference between the cross-talk and >echo-cancellation? > > Echo cancellation uses a reference signal, i.e. what you are > > transmitting/sending/speaking. In the case of echo you know what you >are > > emmitting so it is not difficult to remove an attenuated and delayed >version > > of something you know. In the case of cross-talk, the unwanted signal >is > > unknown. For cross-talk there is no refence signal available, therefor >the > > traditional techniques used in echo cancellation do not apply for > > cross-talk. > > > > > > >From: "chenweigian" <> > > >Reply-To: > > >To: > > >Subject: [echocancel] What the difference between the cross-talk and > > >echo-cancellation? > > >Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 13:58:40 -0000 > > > > > >I read about gigabit ethernet. They seems very similar. The echo is > > >just what to you emit and cross-talk is emitted by your neighbor. > > >So, in this case, can echo-cancellation tech. be used for cross-talk > > >elimination? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > > > > > > > > > _____________________________________ > > Note: If you do a simple "reply" with your email client, only the author >of this message will receive your answer. You need to do a "reply all" if >you want your answer to be distributed to the entire group. > > > > _____________________________________ > > About this discussion group: > > > > To Join: > > > > To Post: > > > > To Leave: > > > > Archives: http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/echocancel > > > > Other DSP-Related Groups: http://www.dsprelated.com > > > > > > ">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com |
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Reply by ●January 30, 20022002-01-30
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With Gigabit Ethernet over copper you DO know the cross talk reference (it is the emitting neighbor). For example, if there is C21 (crosstalk from ch2 into ch1), one could use ch2 as a 'noise' reference, then, using LMS, minimize ch1 noise, which is crosstalk from ch2. The assumption here is that ch2 is orthogonal to ch1. Do the echo canceller and the crosstalk cancellers have to be implemented separately? Appears so... Keith --- In echocancel@y..., "mike belanger" <mike_dsp@h...> wrote: > I agree that cross-talk detection would be more similar to double talk > detection. However the original question asked about elimination. In > general, an echo canceller does not eliminate the double-talk. It simply > stops updating when double-talk has been detected so that the echo canceller > remains stable. > >From: "Atanu Guchhait" <atanug@c...> > >Reply-To: echocancel@y... > >To: <echocancel@y...> > >Subject: Re: [echocancel] What the difference between the cross- talk and > >echo-cancellation? > >Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:46:51 +0530 > > > >hi, > >Isn't cross talk detection is more similar with double talk detection in > >Echo canceller? > > > >atanu > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "mike belanger" <mike_dsp@h...> > >To: <echocancel@y...> > >Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 7:41 PM > >Subject: Re: [echocancel] What the difference between the cross- talk and > >echo-cancellation? > > > > > > > Echo cancellation uses a reference signal, i.e. what you are > > > transmitting/sending/speaking. In the case of echo you know what you > >are > > > emmitting so it is not difficult to remove an attenuated and delayed > >version > > > of something you know. In the case of cross-talk, the unwanted signal > >is > > > unknown. For cross-talk there is no refence signal available, therefor > >the > > > traditional techniques used in echo cancellation do not apply for > > > cross-talk. > > > > > > > > > >From: "chenweigian" <chenweigian@y...> > > > >Reply-To: echocancel@y... > > > >To: echocancel@y... > > > >Subject: [echocancel] What the difference between the cross- talk and > > > >echo-cancellation? > > > >Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 13:58:40 -0000 > > > > > > > >I read about gigabit ethernet. They seems very similar. The echo is > > > >just what to you emit and cross-talk is emitted by your neighbor. > > > >So, in this case, can echo-cancellation tech. be used for cross-talk > > > >elimination? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____________________________________ > > > Note: If you do a simple "reply" with your email client, only the author > >of this message will receive your answer. You need to do a "reply all" if > >you want your answer to be distributed to the entire group. > > > > > > _____________________________________ > > > About this discussion group: > > > > > > To Join: echocancel-subscribe@y... > > > > > > To Post: echocancel@y... > > > > > > To Leave: echocancel-unsubscribe@y... > > > > > > Archives: http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/echocancel > > > > > > Other DSP-Related Groups: http://www.dsprelated.com > > > > > > > > > ">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com |
