Randy Yates wrote: ...> Just a few ideas from me, I and myself.We come from different cultures, Randy. In mine, we say, "Me, myself, and I." No wonder we sometimes fail to communicate! :-) Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. �����������������������������������������������������������������������
Sharpening oversampled STFT-based spectrograms
Started by ●December 28, 2008
Reply by ●December 29, 20082008-12-29
Reply by ●December 29, 20082008-12-29
On Dec 29, 11:38�am, Andor <andor.bari...@gmail.com> wrote:> > I have been thinking if we shouldn't construct the FAQ as a wiki, so > that (registered) editors (regulars) can update the FAQ at their > leasure. This again had me thinking that many of the points in the FAQ > (books, software, online resources, etc. ) and more DSP resources have > already been compiled and are kept up-to-date at another location > (dsprelated.com). Briefly, I wondered whether we should ask Stephane > to host the comp.dsp FAQ as a wiki and referencing those out-of-date > sections on books, software, etc. to his maintained links. This has > brought up the doubt of whether an open group FAQ should be hosted on > a private page (as it is now, as well), and whether it is ok for > Stephane to make money with it.bdti is a private, commercial entity. there is no reason why, if Stephane wants to host it, why it can't be hosted there or by anyone else with a web site and interest. i would say that the content of the (new) FAQ should not display any specific commercial preference (pro-TI, etc) nor even preference for a particular method (DSP vs. CPU vs. FPGA), but can talk about any of these. like, if for instance, Al Clark might want to host this FAQ, it should not have content that can be construed to plug Al's products, but if he gets (and benefits from) additional traffic at his site because he has the FAQ there and a link at the top to go to Danville home, i would think that it would be perfectly appropriate. what's "ok" is whatever free people agree to do with their own resources (i don't quite believe that, being a liberal more than a libertarian). but there is nothing wrong with any specific person or party, whether it's some school or commercial entity, to host the FAQ. literally no one owns USENET (except for collectively all of the newsservers that carry particular hierarchies or newsgroups). also, i would say that there is no reason material may not be selected from the current FAQ and included in the new FAQ. i don't think it's copyrighted by BDTI or anyone, is it?> Also, I thought of r b-j and Wikipedia.what? that i got kicked outa WP?> This has led me down a moral blind alley??? what are the moral issues? anybody who has a web site, if they want to, can host whatever they want (except for pics of naked kids, governments tend to frown on such).> and thus I postponed a request to the group in this matter for later. > I guess now is later :-). > > Comments?i think a comp.dsp wiki-FAQ is a very good idea. i dunno where, but i think you can get free wiki software to run on a server hosting this. i think anybody who is willing to host it should be consider eligible to. at least, initially. i think where (to host it) is a legit topic of conversations among interested persons on this newsgroup. i doubt that any eligible host would be terribly upset if the consensus of the group was to ask some other eligible host to do it (i doubt BDTI would even object if the "official" FAQ migrated to somewhere else, and there is no reason to exclude BDTI from the list of eligible hosts). even if they were (upset), they can host whatever they want with content from whomever they want. nothing stopping them. maybe i'm too opinionated. naw. r b-j (i never hold strong opinions.)
Reply by ●December 29, 20082008-12-29
robert bristow-johnson <rbj@audioimagination.com> writes:> there is no reason why, if Stephane wants to host it, why it can't be > hosted there or by anyone else with a web site and interest.Perhaps there are no legal reasons not to, but how about these: 1. Commercial interest. I don't want other people making money off of my free contributions. 2. Control: What happens when Stephane or whomever doesn't want to update the faq anymore? -- % Randy Yates % "Though you ride on the wheels of tomorrow, %% Fuquay-Varina, NC % you still wander the fields of your %%% 919-577-9882 % sorrow." %%%% <yates@ieee.org> % '21st Century Man', *Time*, ELO http://www.digitalsignallabs.com
Reply by ●December 30, 20082008-12-30
robert bristow-johnson wrote:> On Dec 29, 11:38�am, Andor wrote: > > > > > I have been thinking if we shouldn't construct the FAQ as a wiki, so > > that (registered) editors (regulars) can update the FAQ at their > > leasure. This again had me thinking that many of the points in the FAQ > > (books, software, online resources, etc. ) and more DSP resources have > > already been compiled and are kept up-to-date at another location > > (dsprelated.com). Briefly, I wondered whether we should ask Stephane > > to host the comp.dsp FAQ as a wiki and referencing those out-of-date > > sections on books, software, etc. to his maintained links. This has > > brought up the doubt of whether an open group FAQ should be hosted on > > a private page (as it is now, as well), and whether it is ok for > > Stephane to make money with it. > > bdti is a private, commercial entity. �there is no reason why, if > Stephane wants to host it, why it can't be hosted there or by anyone > else with a web site and interest. > > i would say that the content of the (new) FAQ should not display any > specific commercial preference (pro-TI, etc) nor even preference for a > particular method (DSP vs. CPU vs. FPGA), but can talk about any of > these. �like, if for instance, Al Clark might want to host this FAQ, > it should not have content that can be construed to plug Al's > products, but if he gets (and benefits from) additional traffic at his > site because he has the FAQ there and a link at the top to go to > Danville home, i would think that it would be perfectly appropriate.I would certainly not mind if either Al Clark and Ray Andraka hosted the FAQ. Grant Griffin would be another candidate, same as BDTI. This makes five candidates already.> > what's "ok" is whatever free people agree to do with their own > resources (i don't quite believe that, being a liberal more than a > libertarian). �I consider myself more a librarian :-).> but there is nothing wrong with any specific person or > party, whether it's some school or commercial entity, to host the > FAQ. �literally no one owns USENET (except for collectively all of the > newsservers that carry particular hierarchies or newsgroups). > > also, i would say that there is no reason material may not be selected > from the current FAQ and included in the new FAQ. �i don't think it's > copyrighted by BDTI or anyone, is it?I don't think so. What about the DSP tricks hosted at dspguru? They should also make it into the new FAQ (and they certainly are public domain, thus copyable).> > > Also, I thought of r b-j and Wikipedia. > > what? �that i got kicked outa WP?Yesterday I watched "Sleeping Beatuy" with my daughter. On Aurora's 16th birthday (who knew that the real name of Sleeping Beatuy was Aurora?), the three fairies want to bake a cake and sew a dress for her. However, two of the fairies start fighting about what colour the dress should be: blue or pink. Throughout the rest of the movie, the dress changes colour whenever one of the fairies sees that it isn't "her" colour. I can just imagine the FAQ alternating states like that for some of the running arguments we have here ("the FFT assumes periodic data" / "the FFT is an algorithm and doesn't assume anything" / "the FFT assumes periodic data" / "the FFT is an algorithm ... " ).> > > This has led me down a moral blind alley > > ??? �what are the moral issues? �anybody who has a web site, if they > want to, can host whatever they want (except for pics of naked kids, > governments tend to frown on such).The moral issue whether it is ok for somebody else to make money with free contributions. I guess it is because hosting and tending a Wiki isn't free, either (and the amount of money that can be made from hosting a FAQ is rather limited, I would guess).> > > and thus I postponed a request to the group in this matter for later. > > I guess now is later :-). > > > Comments? > > i think a comp.dsp wiki-FAQ is a very good idea. �i dunno where, but i > think you can get free wiki software to run on a server hosting this. > i think anybody who is willing to host it should be consider eligible > to. �at least, initially. �i think where (to host it) is a legit topic > of conversations among interested persons on this newsgroup. �i doubt > that any eligible host would be terribly upset if the consensus of the > group was to ask some other eligible host to do it (i doubt BDTI would > even object if the "official" FAQ migrated to somewhere else, and > there is no reason to exclude BDTI from the list of eligible hosts). > even if they were (upset), they can host whatever they want with > content from whomever they want. �nothing stopping them.I'll setup a quick "comp.dsp FAQ playground wiki" later today (on a non-commercial academic webserver). One clear advantage is that as long as the wiki is online, it can be updated by anyone and does not depend on any single person / company having time to tend the FAQ. If the gang here agrees that it is a good idea, we can then discuss who does what where later on.> > maybe i'm too opinionated. > > naw. > > r b-j > > �(i never hold strong opinions.)Nah :-). Regards, Andor
Reply by ●December 30, 20082008-12-30
On Dec 30, 3:21�am, Andor <andor.bari...@gmail.com> wrote:> robert bristow-johnson wrote: > > On Dec 29, 11:38�am, Andor wrote: > > > > I have been thinking if we shouldn't construct the FAQ as a wiki, so > > > that (registered) editors (regulars) can update the FAQ at their > > > leasure. This again had me thinking that many of the points in the FAQ > > > (books, software, online resources, etc. ) and more DSP resources have > > > already been compiled and are kept up-to-date at another location > > > (dsprelated.com). Briefly, I wondered whether we should ask Stephane > > > to host the comp.dsp FAQ as a wiki and referencing those out-of-date > > > sections on books, software, etc. to his maintained links. This has > > > brought up the doubt of whether an open group FAQ should be hosted on > > > a private page (as it is now, as well), and whether it is ok for > > > Stephane to make money with it. > > > bdti is a private, commercial entity. �there is no reason why, if > > Stephane wants to host it, why it can't be hosted there or by anyone > > else with a web site and interest. > > > i would say that the content of the (new) FAQ should not display any > > specific commercial preference (pro-TI, etc) nor even preference for a > > particular method (DSP vs. CPU vs. FPGA), but can talk about any of > > these. �like, if for instance, Al Clark might want to host this FAQ, > > it should not have content that can be construed to plug Al's > > products, but if he gets (and benefits from) additional traffic at his > > site because he has the FAQ there and a link at the top to go to > > Danville home, i would think that it would be perfectly appropriate.BTW, Al has the domain "audiodsp.com", which might be an interesting place for an audio DSP FAQ.> I would certainly not mind if either Al Clark and Ray Andraka hosted > the FAQ. Grant Griffin would be another candidate, same as BDTI. This > makes five candidates already. > > > > > what's "ok" is whatever free people agree to do with their own > > resources (i don't quite believe that, being a liberal more than a > > libertarian). � > > I consider myself more a librarian :-). > > > but there is nothing wrong with any specific person or > > party, whether it's some school or commercial entity, to host the > > FAQ. �literally no one owns USENET (except for collectively all of the > > newsservers that carry particular hierarchies or newsgroups). > > > also, i would say that there is no reason material may not be selected > > from the current FAQ and included in the new FAQ. �i don't think it's > > copyrighted by BDTI or anyone, is it? > > I don't think so. What about the DSP tricks hosted at dspguru? They > should also make it into the new FAQ (and they certainly are public > domain, thus copyable). > > > > > > Also, I thought of r b-j and Wikipedia. > > > what? �that i got kicked outa WP? > > Yesterday I watched "Sleeping Beatuy" with my daughter. On Aurora's > 16th birthday (who knew that the real name of Sleeping Beauty was > Aurora?), the three fairies want to bake a cake and sew a dress for > her. However, two of the fairies start fighting about what colour the > dress should be: blue or pink. Throughout the rest of the movie, the > dress changes colour whenever one of the fairies sees that it isn't > "her" colour. I can just imagine the FAQ alternating states like that > for some of the running arguments we have here ("the FFT assumes > periodic data" / "the FFT is an algorithm and doesn't assume > anything" / "the FFT assumes periodic data" / "the FFT is an > algorithm �... " ). > >i think that most folks here know that the FFT is a pretty wide collection of algs (the Cooley-Tukey radix-2 DIT or DIF thingies are the most well known) for efficiently computing the DFT on a set of data. now whether or not the DFT most fundamentally transforms one periodic discrete sequence to another periodic discrete sequence of the same period, well, i am still at a loss as to why that is controversial. even a decade later. it is also true that the DFT samples the DTFT around the unit circle at equal spacing. BTW, the trouble i got into at Wikipedia had nothing to do with any of the technical articles that i edited on. it was about social issue articles (specifically [[Intelligent design]], [[Homophobia]], and [[Marriage]]) and a sorta insidious "political correctness" that pervades parts of the project.> > > > This has led me down a moral blind alley > > > ??? �what are the moral issues? �anybody who has a web site, if they > > want to, can host whatever they want (except for pics of naked kids, > > governments tend to frown on such). > > The moral issue whether it is ok for somebody else to make money with > free contributions. I guess it is because hosting and tending a Wiki > isn't free, either (and the amount of money that can be made from > hosting a FAQ is rather limited, I would guess). >i don't feel taken advantage of by Grant. i doubt he makes much or any money at dspguru.com, but for the expense and bother to host the FAQ-wiki, i see no problem with it being attached to a web site that whomever is also using for their business. just that attachment can be construed as a commercial connection. maybe the FAQ-wiki can be mirrored at multiple places.> > > > > > > and thus I postponed a request to the group in this matter for later. > > > I guess now is later :-). > > > > Comments? > > > i think a comp.dsp wiki-FAQ is a very good idea. �i dunno where, but i > > think you can get free wiki software to run on a server hosting this. > > i think anybody who is willing to host it should be consider eligible > > to. �at least, initially. �i think where (to host it) is a legit topic > > of conversations among interested persons on this newsgroup. �i doubt > > that any eligible host would be terribly upset if the consensus of the > > group was to ask some other eligible host to do it (i doubt BDTI would > > even object if the "official" FAQ migrated to somewhere else, and > > there is no reason to exclude BDTI from the list of eligible hosts). > > even if they were (upset), they can host whatever they want with > > content from whomever they want. �nothing stopping them. > > I'll setup a quick "comp.dsp FAQ playground wiki" later today (on a > non-commercial academic webserver). One clear advantage is that as > long as the wiki is online, it can be updated by anyone and does not > depend on any single person / company having time to tend the FAQ. If > the gang here agrees that it is a good idea, we can then discuss who > does what where later on. >i dunno where Wikipedia got it, but they use LaTeX paste-up for equations. can your free wiki software get LaTeX to work with it, too? i really don't know diddley about where to get this free wiki software and how it gets installed. r b-j
Reply by ●December 30, 20082008-12-30
On 30 Dez., 18:21, robert bristow-johnson <r...@audioimagination.com> wrote:> On Dec 30, 3:21�am, Andor <andor.bari...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > robert bristow-johnson wrote: > > > On Dec 29, 11:38�am, Andor wrote: > > > > > I have been thinking if we shouldn't construct the FAQ as a wiki, so > > > > that (registered) editors (regulars) can update the FAQ at their > > > > leasure. This again had me thinking that many of the points in the FAQ > > > > (books, software, online resources, etc. ) and more DSP resources have > > > > already been compiled and are kept up-to-date at another location > > > > (dsprelated.com). Briefly, I wondered whether we should ask Stephane > > > > to host the comp.dsp FAQ as a wiki and referencing those out-of-date > > > > sections on books, software, etc. to his maintained links. This has > > > > brought up the doubt of whether an open group FAQ should be hosted on > > > > a private page (as it is now, as well), and whether it is ok for > > > > Stephane to make money with it. > > > > bdti is a private, commercial entity. �there is no reason why, if > > > Stephane wants to host it, why it can't be hosted there or by anyone > > > else with a web site and interest. > > > > i would say that the content of the (new) FAQ should not display any > > > specific commercial preference (pro-TI, etc) nor even preference for a > > > particular method (DSP vs. CPU vs. FPGA), but can talk about any of > > > these. �like, if for instance, Al Clark might want to host this FAQ, > > > it should not have content that can be construed to plug Al's > > > products, but if he gets (and benefits from) additional traffic at his > > > site because he has the FAQ there and a link at the top to go to > > > Danville home, i would think that it would be perfectly appropriate. > > BTW, Al has the domain "audiodsp.com", which might be an interesting > place for an audio DSP FAQ.I think Al has quite a feq interesting domain names. Perhaps he'll "sponsor" one for the FAQ ... ?> > > > > > > I would certainly not mind if either Al Clark and Ray Andraka hosted > > the FAQ. Grant Griffin would be another candidate, same as BDTI. This > > makes five candidates already. > > > > what's "ok" is whatever free people agree to do with their own > > > resources (i don't quite believe that, being a liberal more than a > > > libertarian). � > > > I consider myself more a librarian :-). > > > > but there is nothing wrong with any specific person or > > > party, whether it's some school or commercial entity, to host the > > > FAQ. �literally no one owns USENET (except for collectively all of the > > > newsservers that carry particular hierarchies or newsgroups). > > > > also, i would say that there is no reason material may not be selected > > > from the current FAQ and included in the new FAQ. �i don't think it's > > > copyrighted by BDTI or anyone, is it? > > > I don't think so. What about the DSP tricks hosted at dspguru? They > > should also make it into the new FAQ (and they certainly are public > > domain, thus copyable). > > > > > Also, I thought of r b-j and Wikipedia. > > > > what? �that i got kicked outa WP? > > > Yesterday I watched "Sleeping Beatuy" with my daughter. On Aurora's > > 16th birthday (who knew that the real name of Sleeping Beauty was > > Aurora?), the three fairies want to bake a cake and sew a dress for > > her. However, two of the fairies start fighting about what colour the > > dress should be: blue or pink. Throughout the rest of the movie, the > > dress changes colour whenever one of the fairies sees that it isn't > > "her" colour. I can just imagine the FAQ alternating states like that > > for some of the running arguments we have here ("the FFT assumes > > periodic data" / "the FFT is an algorithm and doesn't assume > > anything" / "the FFT assumes periodic data" / "the FFT is an > > algorithm �... " ). > > i think that most folks here know that the FFT is a pretty wide > collection of algs (the Cooley-Tukey radix-2 DIT or DIF thingies are > the most well known) for efficiently computing the DFT on a set of > data. > > now whether or not the DFT most fundamentally transforms one periodic > discrete sequence to another periodic discrete sequence of the same > period, well, i am still at a loss as to why that is controversial. > even a decade later. �it is also true that the DFT samples the DTFT > around the unit circle at equal spacing. > > BTW, the trouble i got into at Wikipedia had nothing to do with any of > the technical articles that i edited on. �it was about social issue > articles (specifically [[Intelligent design]], [[Homophobia]], and > [[Marriage]]) and a sorta insidious "political correctness" that > pervades parts of the project. > > > > > > > This has led me down a moral blind alley > > > > ??? �what are the moral issues? �anybody who has a web site, if they > > > want to, can host whatever they want (except for pics of naked kids, > > > governments tend to frown on such). > > > The moral issue whether it is ok for somebody else to make money with > > free contributions. I guess it is because hosting and tending a Wiki > > isn't free, either (and the amount of money that can be made from > > hosting a FAQ is rather limited, I would guess). > > i don't feel taken advantage of by Grant. �i doubt he makes much or > any money at dspguru.com, but for the expense and bother to host the > FAQ-wiki, i see no problem with it being attached to a web site that > whomever is also using for their business. �just that attachment can > be construed as a commercial connection. �maybe the FAQ-wiki can be > mirrored at multiple places. > > > > > > > > > > > and thus I postponed a request to the group in this matter for later. > > > > I guess now is later :-). > > > > > Comments? > > > > i think a comp.dsp wiki-FAQ is a very good idea. �i dunno where, but i > > > think you can get free wiki software to run on a server hosting this. > > > i think anybody who is willing to host it should be consider eligible > > > to. �at least, initially. �i think where (to host it) is a legit topic > > > of conversations among interested persons on this newsgroup. �i doubt > > > that any eligible host would be terribly upset if the consensus of the > > > group was to ask some other eligible host to do it (i doubt BDTI would > > > even object if the "official" FAQ migrated to somewhere else, and > > > there is no reason to exclude BDTI from the list of eligible hosts). > > > even if they were (upset), they can host whatever they want with > > > content from whomever they want. �nothing stopping them. > > > I'll setup a quick "comp.dsp FAQ playground wiki" later today (on a > > non-commercial academic webserver). One clear advantage is that as > > long as the wiki is online, it can be updated by anyone and does not > > depend on any single person / company having time to tend the FAQ. If > > the gang here agrees that it is a good idea, we can then discuss who > > does what where later on. > > i dunno where Wikipedia got it, but they use LaTeX paste-up for > equations. �can your free wiki software get LaTeX to work with it, > too? �i really don't know diddley about where to get this free wiki > software and how it gets installed. > > r b-jYeah, you can use LaTex see the very last entry in my demo FAQ: https://labts417.zhaw.ch/faq/ Regards, Andor
Reply by ●December 30, 20082008-12-30
On Dec 30, 3:44�pm, Andor <andor.bari...@gmail.com> wrote:> On 30 Dez., 18:21, robert bristow-johnson <r...@audioimagination.com> > wrote:...> > > i dunno where Wikipedia got it, but they use LaTeX paste-up for > > equations. �can your free wiki software get LaTeX to work with it, > > too? � > > Yeah, you can use LaTex see the very last entry in my demo FAQ: > > https://labts417.zhaw.ch/faq/ >link don't work. this is what my browser told me: Failed to Connect Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at labts417.zhaw.ch. Though the site seems valid, the browser was unable to establish a connection. * Could the site be temporarily unavailable? Try again later. * Are you unable to browse other sites? Check the computer's network connection. * Is your computer or network protected by a firewall or proxy? Incorrect settings can interfere with Web browsing. L8r, r b-j
Reply by ●January 1, 20092009-01-01
On 31 Dez. 2008, 04:37, robert bristow-johnson <r...@audioimagination.com> wrote:> On Dec 30, 3:44�pm, Andor <andor.bari...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On 30 Dez., 18:21, robert bristow-johnson <r...@audioimagination.com> > > wrote: > ... > > > > i dunno where Wikipedia got it, but they use LaTeX paste-up for > > > equations. �can your free wiki software get LaTeX to work with it, > > > too? � > > > Yeah, you can use LaTex see the very last entry in my demo FAQ: > > >https://labts417.zhaw.ch/faq/ > > link don't work.It works intermittently. Perhaps they are working on the servers over the holidays. Try again later. Regards and a Prosperous 2009 everyone! Andor
