On Wed, 17 May 2017 18:55:16 +0100, Tom Gardner wrote:> On 17/05/17 18:43, Tim Wescott wrote: >> On Wed, 17 May 2017 18:36:52 +0100, Tom Gardner wrote: >> >>> On 17/05/17 18:21, Tim Wescott wrote: >>>> On Wed, 17 May 2017 18:11:22 +0100, Tom Gardner wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 17/05/17 16:02, Tim Wescott wrote: >>>>>> On Wed, 17 May 2017 09:12:46 -0400, Randy Yates wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Tim Wescott <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> writes: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Since this is a newsgroup, and this is news... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Wescott Design Services is going into remission, while I pursue a >>>>>>>> day job. Job title is Software Designer 5 at Planar Systems -- >>>>>>>> so any circuit design or control systems jones will have to be >>>>>>>> satisfied by hobby work or on the side. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In the near term I'll be finishing up current work with current >>>>>>>> customers; in the longer term I'll probably concentrate on the >>>>>>>> educational videos and maybe hobby stuff. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Lots of embedded Linux work in my near future, and possibly TDD >>>>>>>> proselytizing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Congratulations Tim. We'll have to exchange trade secrets >>>>>>> someday... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> BTW, does PS use a specific unit test framework? Have you used it >>>>>>> yet? >>>>>>> How do you like it? >>>>>> >>>>>> I start next week, so I don't know and no. It's my former coworker >>>>>> from FLIR who's pushing TDD, and the manager who hired me is kind >>>>>> of warily standing on the sidelines going "what's the deal here?" >>>>>> >>>>>> The guy pushing it is extremely smart and capable, so whatever it >>>>>> is it's probably good. >>>>> >>>>> I expect you'll find it is the codification of many of the >>>>> development mentality and practices that you have been using for a >>>>> long time. >>>>> >>>>> Be cautious about how TDD applies to bottom-up design (i.e. finding >>>>> things that work and clagging them together) v.s. top-down design. >>>>> TDD works naturally with top-down design where all the >>>>> yet-to-be-implemented are well understood and feasible. >>>>> >>>>> Anybody that /thinks/ will realise that sometimes it is beneficial >>>>> to do a "spike investigation" to quickly validate key concepts from >>>>> top-to-bottom, and then to use that experience to do it "properly" >>>>> using full-blown TDD. >>>> >>>> It's not magic. I've been geeking out on the COSMAC 1802 lately, >>>> because it was the first microprocessor I ever owned (I had an ELF-II >>>> kit). The user's manual has an entire chapter extolling the virtue >>>> of SUBROUTINES (ooh, ahh) and how to implement them. It's quite >>>> gushy about how using subroutines make your code better. And yet, >>>> I've worked on lots of crappy code that has subroutines. >>> >>> :) >>> >>> The 1802's implementation of subroutines was, um, quirky to the point >>> of being obtuse. >>> >>> I hand built my first computer using a 6800, after having thought long >>> and hard about the 1802 and 8080. It was a mess, >>> but worked, I learned a heck of a lot, and prospective employers were >>> duly impressed. >> >> The 1802 is neither a CISC processor nor a RISC processor -- it's a >> NHISC processor -- "Never Had Instruction Set Computer". > > :) > >> I wish I had the chops to organize a contest -- I think an annual >> "build the fastest 1802" contest would be fun to be involved in. >> Imagine what you could do if the only basic rule was that it had to >> execute 1802 machine code faithfully, with no constraints on how much >> happened per clock cycle. Ditch TDA and TDB, keep the I/O command >> lines, Q, and the flags, and go to town. Prefetch, pipelines, caches, >> parallel execution, predictive branching, everything -- all with that >> crazy 1802 instruction set. > > I hate all those with a vengeance, since they prevent hard real-time > software. > > I'm currently experimenting with a /small/ XMOS device which > deliberately avoids all of those techniques so that it can guarantee > timing. So far I've been able to get the /software/ > to reliably count the edges on two 20Mb/s input pins, process the > results and simultaneously shove them up a USB link to a host PC. > > Now I've got to understand the algorithms in reciprocal and continuous > timestamping frequency counters :)Some guy has Verilog code for an 1802 in which he claims a 60MHz clock, one clock per instruction (or perhaps fetch). That would be deterministic, and fast by some measures. All the modern pipeline/predict/prefetch whiz-bang doesn't prevent hard real time, if only the processor manufacturers would publish the absolute maximum time it takes to execute any possible instruction, or (better) provide tools for finding the maximum time-from-interrupt for any given chunk of code. Then you could just add up all the critical stuff and make sure it works. In my experience there isn't THAT much variation -- you just need to know how much variation to allow for to meet hard real time criteria. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com
[OT] I got a JOB!!!
Started by ●May 16, 2017
Reply by ●May 17, 20172017-05-17
Reply by ●May 17, 20172017-05-17
On 17/05/17 19:28, Tim Wescott wrote:> On Wed, 17 May 2017 18:55:16 +0100, Tom Gardner wrote: > >> On 17/05/17 18:43, Tim Wescott wrote: >>> On Wed, 17 May 2017 18:36:52 +0100, Tom Gardner wrote: >>> >>>> On 17/05/17 18:21, Tim Wescott wrote: >>>>> On Wed, 17 May 2017 18:11:22 +0100, Tom Gardner wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 17/05/17 16:02, Tim Wescott wrote: >>>>>>> On Wed, 17 May 2017 09:12:46 -0400, Randy Yates wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Tim Wescott <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> writes: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Since this is a newsgroup, and this is news... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Wescott Design Services is going into remission, while I pursue a >>>>>>>>> day job. Job title is Software Designer 5 at Planar Systems -- >>>>>>>>> so any circuit design or control systems jones will have to be >>>>>>>>> satisfied by hobby work or on the side. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In the near term I'll be finishing up current work with current >>>>>>>>> customers; in the longer term I'll probably concentrate on the >>>>>>>>> educational videos and maybe hobby stuff. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Lots of embedded Linux work in my near future, and possibly TDD >>>>>>>>> proselytizing. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Congratulations Tim. We'll have to exchange trade secrets >>>>>>>> someday... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> BTW, does PS use a specific unit test framework? Have you used it >>>>>>>> yet? >>>>>>>> How do you like it? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I start next week, so I don't know and no. It's my former coworker >>>>>>> from FLIR who's pushing TDD, and the manager who hired me is kind >>>>>>> of warily standing on the sidelines going "what's the deal here?" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The guy pushing it is extremely smart and capable, so whatever it >>>>>>> is it's probably good. >>>>>> >>>>>> I expect you'll find it is the codification of many of the >>>>>> development mentality and practices that you have been using for a >>>>>> long time. >>>>>> >>>>>> Be cautious about how TDD applies to bottom-up design (i.e. finding >>>>>> things that work and clagging them together) v.s. top-down design. >>>>>> TDD works naturally with top-down design where all the >>>>>> yet-to-be-implemented are well understood and feasible. >>>>>> >>>>>> Anybody that /thinks/ will realise that sometimes it is beneficial >>>>>> to do a "spike investigation" to quickly validate key concepts from >>>>>> top-to-bottom, and then to use that experience to do it "properly" >>>>>> using full-blown TDD. >>>>> >>>>> It's not magic. I've been geeking out on the COSMAC 1802 lately, >>>>> because it was the first microprocessor I ever owned (I had an ELF-II >>>>> kit). The user's manual has an entire chapter extolling the virtue >>>>> of SUBROUTINES (ooh, ahh) and how to implement them. It's quite >>>>> gushy about how using subroutines make your code better. And yet, >>>>> I've worked on lots of crappy code that has subroutines. >>>> >>>> :) >>>> >>>> The 1802's implementation of subroutines was, um, quirky to the point >>>> of being obtuse. >>>> >>>> I hand built my first computer using a 6800, after having thought long >>>> and hard about the 1802 and 8080. It was a mess, >>>> but worked, I learned a heck of a lot, and prospective employers were >>>> duly impressed. >>> >>> The 1802 is neither a CISC processor nor a RISC processor -- it's a >>> NHISC processor -- "Never Had Instruction Set Computer". >> >> :) >> >>> I wish I had the chops to organize a contest -- I think an annual >>> "build the fastest 1802" contest would be fun to be involved in. >>> Imagine what you could do if the only basic rule was that it had to >>> execute 1802 machine code faithfully, with no constraints on how much >>> happened per clock cycle. Ditch TDA and TDB, keep the I/O command >>> lines, Q, and the flags, and go to town. Prefetch, pipelines, caches, >>> parallel execution, predictive branching, everything -- all with that >>> crazy 1802 instruction set. >> >> I hate all those with a vengeance, since they prevent hard real-time >> software. >> >> I'm currently experimenting with a /small/ XMOS device which >> deliberately avoids all of those techniques so that it can guarantee >> timing. So far I've been able to get the /software/ >> to reliably count the edges on two 20Mb/s input pins, process the >> results and simultaneously shove them up a USB link to a host PC. >> >> Now I've got to understand the algorithms in reciprocal and continuous >> timestamping frequency counters :) > > Some guy has Verilog code for an 1802 in which he claims a 60MHz clock, > one clock per instruction (or perhaps fetch). That would be > deterministic, and fast by some measures. > > All the modern pipeline/predict/prefetch whiz-bang doesn't prevent hard > real time, if only the processor manufacturers would publish the absolute > maximum time it takes to execute any possible instruction, or (better) > provide tools for finding the maximum time-from-interrupt for any given > chunk of code. Then you could just add up all the critical stuff and > make sure it works. > > In my experience there isn't THAT much variation -- you just need to know > how much variation to allow for to meet hard real time criteria.It complicates things enormously, doubly so when all the caches are involved. ISTR someone measuring a 486 with its tiny caches, and finding the mean:max ISR time was somewhere around 1:5. I expect I've still got a paper copy, /somewhere/. The XMOS tools claim to indicate the exact loop/function times, assuming input is available and output can be delivered (Occam channel semantics). The event-driven multicore hardware+software co-implementation looks to be rather nice too. And the I/O is pleasantly high-level too: do i/o on a specific clock cycle, wait until there's a change, etc etc. Makes high speed bit-bashing in software tractable.
Reply by ●May 18, 20172017-05-18
On Tue, 16 May 2017 13:49:28 -0500, Tim Wescott <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> wrote:>Since this is a newsgroup, and this is news... > >Wescott Design Services is going into remission, while I pursue a day >job. Job title is Software Designer 5 at Planar Systems -- so any >circuit design or control systems jones will have to be satisfied by >hobby work or on the side. > >In the near term I'll be finishing up current work with current >customers; in the longer term I'll probably concentrate on the >educational videos and maybe hobby stuff. > >Lots of embedded Linux work in my near future, and possibly TDD >proselytizing.Planar Systems is one VERY cool company ! I had to look at their web site... They even have displays in the SPAM museum !! I wonder why they want you to clear your cache and cookies before applying to a job application ? Maybe so you have to enter everything from scratch. boB
Reply by ●May 18, 20172017-05-18
On Wed, 17 May 2017 21:30:13 -0700, boB K7IQ wrote:> On Tue, 16 May 2017 13:49:28 -0500, Tim Wescott > <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> wrote: > >>Since this is a newsgroup, and this is news... >> >>Wescott Design Services is going into remission, while I pursue a day >>job. Job title is Software Designer 5 at Planar Systems -- so any >>circuit design or control systems jones will have to be satisfied by >>hobby work or on the side. >> >>In the near term I'll be finishing up current work with current >>customers; in the longer term I'll probably concentrate on the >>educational videos and maybe hobby stuff. >> >>Lots of embedded Linux work in my near future, and possibly TDD >>proselytizing. > > > Planar Systems is one VERY cool company ! I had to look at their web > site... They even have displays in the SPAM museum !! > > I wonder why they want you to clear your cache and cookies before > applying to a job application ? Maybe so you have to enter everything > from scratch. > > boBThat page is very strange -- you gonna apply for a job? -- www.wescottdesign.com
Reply by ●May 18, 20172017-05-18
On 18/05/17 05:30, boB K7IQ wrote:> On Tue, 16 May 2017 13:49:28 -0500, Tim Wescott > <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> wrote: > >> Since this is a newsgroup, and this is news... >> >> Wescott Design Services is going into remission, while I pursue a day >> job. Job title is Software Designer 5 at Planar Systems -- so any >> circuit design or control systems jones will have to be satisfied by >> hobby work or on the side. >> >> In the near term I'll be finishing up current work with current >> customers; in the longer term I'll probably concentrate on the >> educational videos and maybe hobby stuff. >> >> Lots of embedded Linux work in my near future, and possibly TDD >> proselytizing. > > > Planar Systems is one VERY cool company ! I had to look at their web > site... They even have displays in the SPAM museum !! > > I wonder why they want you to clear your cache and cookies before > applying to a job application ? Maybe so you have to enter everything > from scratch.That would be unacceptable to me; I have (a few) cookies that I use to make my life easier on a few frequently visited websites. Expecting me, without any explanation, to make my life more difficult for their convenience makes me wonder if they will have that self-centered (sociopathic?) attitude to employees. If they said /which/ cookies should be deleted, then it would be less unacceptable.
Reply by ●May 19, 20172017-05-19
On Thu, 18 May 2017 08:18:53 +0100, Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:>On 18/05/17 05:30, boB K7IQ wrote: >> On Tue, 16 May 2017 13:49:28 -0500, Tim Wescott >> <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> wrote: >> >>> Since this is a newsgroup, and this is news... >>> >>> Wescott Design Services is going into remission, while I pursue a day >>> job. Job title is Software Designer 5 at Planar Systems -- so any >>> circuit design or control systems jones will have to be satisfied by >>> hobby work or on the side. >>> >>> In the near term I'll be finishing up current work with current >>> customers; in the longer term I'll probably concentrate on the >>> educational videos and maybe hobby stuff. >>> >>> Lots of embedded Linux work in my near future, and possibly TDD >>> proselytizing. >> >> >> Planar Systems is one VERY cool company ! I had to look at their web >> site... They even have displays in the SPAM museum !! >> >> I wonder why they want you to clear your cache and cookies before >> applying to a job application ? Maybe so you have to enter everything >> from scratch. > >That would be unacceptable to me; I have (a few) cookies >that I use to make my life easier on a few frequently >visited websites. > >Expecting me, without any explanation, to make my life >more difficult for their convenience makes me wonder if >they will have that self-centered (sociopathic?) attitude >to employees. > >If they said /which/ cookies should be deleted, then >it would be less unacceptable.I was thinking the same thing. Unacceptable but I'm not applying for a job anyway. But if I were and in the Portland area, it might be a place to look at. Instead of applying online, probably going there in person would be better. Then I would also have a better idea on commute time. boB
Reply by ●May 19, 20172017-05-19
On 5/19/2017 8:56 AM, boB K7IQ wrote:> On Thu, 18 May 2017 08:18:53 +0100, Tom Gardner > <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: > >> On 18/05/17 05:30, boB K7IQ wrote: >>> On Tue, 16 May 2017 13:49:28 -0500, Tim Wescott >>> <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> wrote: >>> >>>> Since this is a newsgroup, and this is news... >>>> >>>> Wescott Design Services is going into remission, while I pursue a day >>>> job. Job title is Software Designer 5 at Planar Systems -- so any >>>> circuit design or control systems jones will have to be satisfied by >>>> hobby work or on the side. >>>> >>>> In the near term I'll be finishing up current work with current >>>> customers; in the longer term I'll probably concentrate on the >>>> educational videos and maybe hobby stuff. >>>> >>>> Lots of embedded Linux work in my near future, and possibly TDD >>>> proselytizing. >>> >>> >>> Planar Systems is one VERY cool company ! I had to look at their web >>> site... They even have displays in the SPAM museum !! >>> >>> I wonder why they want you to clear your cache and cookies before >>> applying to a job application ? Maybe so you have to enter everything >>> from scratch. >> >> That would be unacceptable to me; I have (a few) cookies >> that I use to make my life easier on a few frequently >> visited websites. >> >> Expecting me, without any explanation, to make my life >> more difficult for their convenience makes me wonder if >> they will have that self-centered (sociopathic?) attitude >> to employees. >> >> If they said /which/ cookies should be deleted, then >> it would be less unacceptable. > > > I was thinking the same thing. Unacceptable but I'm not applying for > a job anyway. But if I were and in the Portland area, it might be a > place to look at. Instead of applying online, probably going there > in person would be better. Then I would also have a better idea on > commute time. > > boB > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > http://www.avg.com >Bob you're a ham?Ahahaha my country's hams are arseholes towards me because I am unable to get a licence and I have to broadcast illegally.They are a bunch of snobbs who think that because they have a paper they can do whatever they want with the radiowaves.
Reply by ●May 19, 20172017-05-19
On Fri, 19 May 2017 14:31:51 +0300, Vassilis Spiliopoulos wrote:> On 5/19/2017 8:56 AM, boB K7IQ wrote: >> On Thu, 18 May 2017 08:18:53 +0100, Tom Gardner >> <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: >> >>> On 18/05/17 05:30, boB K7IQ wrote: >>>> On Tue, 16 May 2017 13:49:28 -0500, Tim Wescott >>>> <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Since this is a newsgroup, and this is news... >>>>> >>>>> Wescott Design Services is going into remission, while I pursue a >>>>> day job. Job title is Software Designer 5 at Planar Systems -- so >>>>> any circuit design or control systems jones will have to be >>>>> satisfied by hobby work or on the side. >>>>> >>>>> In the near term I'll be finishing up current work with current >>>>> customers; in the longer term I'll probably concentrate on the >>>>> educational videos and maybe hobby stuff. >>>>> >>>>> Lots of embedded Linux work in my near future, and possibly TDD >>>>> proselytizing. >>>> >>>> >>>> Planar Systems is one VERY cool company ! I had to look at their web >>>> site... They even have displays in the SPAM museum !! >>>> >>>> I wonder why they want you to clear your cache and cookies before >>>> applying to a job application ? Maybe so you have to enter >>>> everything from scratch. >>> >>> That would be unacceptable to me; I have (a few) cookies that I use to >>> make my life easier on a few frequently visited websites. >>> >>> Expecting me, without any explanation, to make my life more difficult >>> for their convenience makes me wonder if they will have that >>> self-centered (sociopathic?) attitude to employees. >>> >>> If they said /which/ cookies should be deleted, then it would be less >>> unacceptable. >> >> >> I was thinking the same thing. Unacceptable but I'm not applying for a >> job anyway. But if I were and in the Portland area, it might be a >> place to look at. Instead of applying online, probably going there >> in person would be better. Then I would also have a better idea on >> commute time. >> >> boB >> >> --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. >> http://www.avg.com >> > Bob you're a ham?Ahahaha my country's hams are arseholes towards me > because I am unable to get a licence and I have to broadcast > illegally.They are a bunch of snobbs who think that because they have a > paper they can do whatever they want with the radiowaves.Dunno about your country, but around here it's easy enough to get a license that the only people running illegally are the ones that hold the law in contempt. Strangely, we think of them as -- assholes. -- www.wescottdesign.com
Reply by ●May 19, 20172017-05-19
Reply by ●May 19, 20172017-05-19
On 5/19/2017 6:39 PM, Tim Wescott wrote:> On Fri, 19 May 2017 14:31:51 +0300, Vassilis Spiliopoulos wrote: > >> On 5/19/2017 8:56 AM, boB K7IQ wrote: >>> On Thu, 18 May 2017 08:18:53 +0100, Tom Gardner >>> <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: >>> >>>> On 18/05/17 05:30, boB K7IQ wrote: >>>>> On Tue, 16 May 2017 13:49:28 -0500, Tim Wescott >>>>> <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Since this is a newsgroup, and this is news... >>>>>> >>>>>> Wescott Design Services is going into remission, while I pursue a >>>>>> day job. Job title is Software Designer 5 at Planar Systems -- so >>>>>> any circuit design or control systems jones will have to be >>>>>> satisfied by hobby work or on the side. >>>>>> >>>>>> In the near term I'll be finishing up current work with current >>>>>> customers; in the longer term I'll probably concentrate on the >>>>>> educational videos and maybe hobby stuff. >>>>>> >>>>>> Lots of embedded Linux work in my near future, and possibly TDD >>>>>> proselytizing. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Planar Systems is one VERY cool company ! I had to look at their web >>>>> site... They even have displays in the SPAM museum !! >>>>> >>>>> I wonder why they want you to clear your cache and cookies before >>>>> applying to a job application ? Maybe so you have to enter >>>>> everything from scratch. >>>> >>>> That would be unacceptable to me; I have (a few) cookies that I use to >>>> make my life easier on a few frequently visited websites. >>>> >>>> Expecting me, without any explanation, to make my life more difficult >>>> for their convenience makes me wonder if they will have that >>>> self-centered (sociopathic?) attitude to employees. >>>> >>>> If they said /which/ cookies should be deleted, then it would be less >>>> unacceptable. >>> >>> >>> I was thinking the same thing. Unacceptable but I'm not applying for a >>> job anyway. But if I were and in the Portland area, it might be a >>> place to look at. Instead of applying online, probably going there >>> in person would be better. Then I would also have a better idea on >>> commute time. >>> >>> boB >>> >>> --- >>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. >>> http://www.avg.com >>> >> Bob you're a ham?Ahahaha my country's hams are arseholes towards me >> because I am unable to get a licence and I have to broadcast >> illegally.They are a bunch of snobbs who think that because they have a >> paper they can do whatever they want with the radiowaves. > > Dunno about your country, but around here it's easy enough to get a > license that the only people running illegally are the ones that hold the > law in contempt. > > Strangely, we think of them as -- assholes. >In my country the exam dates are set at extremely unsuitable dates eg. may 20 where most people under 25 have university entrance exams.Apart from that, you have to pay a large fee (20 euro---> while the average monthly salary is 600 euro) and the test questions are a bit hard to memorise (especially the technical part).Also you must get over 85% to pass Apart from the questions being outdated and referring to older equipment. Better off illegal and with a fake German callsign than having to deal with snobby fucks who think they own the airwaves.The airwaves should be free to use by anyone.Just sell VHF handhelds with certain settings blocked in order not to cause harmful interference.Or well educate people and enforce severe penalties in cases of non-compliance. But licenses for something so easy?At least they could just sell the damn callsigns if their arses call for that.
