Visual "clipping"?

Radium seems to be a good example of mental clipping. Brain attempting to 
think far beyond it's capacity 

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 05:01:19 GMT, Matt Ion wrote:

>> Try to force 100,000,000 lumens out of a square-shaped, pinky-finger-
>> sized area of an LCD monitor. Now what would happen? Would the organic
>> material present in that area catch fire?
> 
> And how exactly would one do that, since LCDs don't actually produce 
> light on their own?

  You and I couldn't, but an engineer/technician working for a
company such as GE, Westinghouse, Philips or Osram might go mad and
try something like that.  If we suffered that same fate we might try
applying 240V A.C. to a 2.6v PR2 bulb to see "what would happen". :)

On Sep 3, 10:03 pm, Radium <gluceg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi:
>
> Clipping in an audio signal results when an audio device receives a
> signal that is too loud. The audio signal distorts into square-waves
> because the "tops" of the signal are flattened. The device cannot
> handle power levels over a certain level. When this level is exceeded,
> clipping occurs. Clipping is usually harsher in digital devices than
> in analog devices. Analog clipping tends to be fuzzy and soft compared
> to digital clipping.
>
> What is the visual-equivalent of "clipping"? Is there a difference
> between analog and digital in terms of visual-clipping? If so, what is
> the difference?
>
> Auditory-clipping can damage speakers. Can visual-"clipping" damage
> monitors?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Radium

Yes, there IS a difference between analog and digital processing.  The
analog effect depends on the stability of the analog signal
processing.  This effect would appear on the horizontal trace of a TV
signal (part of the video path on today's TVs are still analog, even
with a "digital tuner". It can cause a ringing after the saturation,
and "artifacts" beyond the clipped area.

If certain types of processing are used, especially sharpening, in
digital signal processing, such artifacts can also end up surrounding
(in both directions) a clipped area.

On 9/3/07 9:07 PM, in article
1188878846.842063.33390@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com, "Radium"
<glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sep 3, 8:27 pm, isw <i...@witzend.com> wrote:
> 
snip
> 
>> No. Prolonged blacks can damage television transmitters, however (video
>> is inverted for transmission, so black requires full power from the
>> transmitter).
> 
> Prolonged black can damage a monitor/screen? That's weird. White is
> analogous to the loudest sound a loudspeaker can playback. Black is
> analogous to a loudspeaker not being feed any signal.

snip

More Trolling.

Exactly where did he say  prolonged black can damage a monitor/screen

isw wrote:
> 
> In article <1188874984.222039.197660@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>,
>  Radium <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hi:
> >
> > Clipping in an audio signal results when an audio device receives a
> > signal that is too loud. The audio signal distorts into square-waves
> > because the "tops" of the signal are flattened. The device cannot
> > handle power levels over a certain level. When this level is exceeded,
> > clipping occurs. Clipping is usually harsher in digital devices than
> > in analog devices. Analog clipping tends to be fuzzy and soft compared
> > to digital clipping.
> >
> > What is the visual-equivalent of "clipping"? Is there a difference
> > between analog and digital in terms of visual-clipping? If so, what is
> > the difference?
> 
> Clipping causes whites lose all texture -- very similar to overexposed
> film.
> 
> > Auditory-clipping can damage speakers. Can visual-"clipping" damage
> > monitors?
> 
> No. Prolonged blacks can damage television transmitters, however (video
> is inverted for transmission, so black requires full power from the
> transmitter).
> 
> Isaac



   No, only the sync tips are at 100%.


-- 
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Martin Heffels wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 20:27:43 -0700, isw <isw@witzend.com> wrote:
> 
> >Clipping causes whites lose all texture -- very similar to overexposed
> >film.
> 
> White clipping makes you loose the texture, and some other interesting
> things occur, like the clipped area turning yellowish (solarization).
> But it's not only white which can clip, with colour-correction you can
> easily clip one of the three colour-channels. And of course you can clip
> black as well, loosing shadow detail.
> 
> >> Auditory-clipping can damage speakers. Can visual-"clipping" damage
> >> monitors?
> >
> >No. Prolonged blacks can damage television transmitters, however (video
> >is inverted for transmission, so black requires full power from the
> >transmitter).
> 
> I would say the transmitters would be resistant to that. Most run below
> their designed maximum power anyway.
> 


   Never worked at a TV transmitter site, have you?  If they are
operating under the specified power, they are in violation of their
license, and no one is stupid enough to overbuy on the transmitter
requirements.  The sync tips are at 100% power, and varies between full
white or black as required.  Neither will damage the transmitter if left
continuously. In the early days of TV it was very common to fade to
black before and after a commercial, because everything was done by
hand. The black allowed switching sources without displaying any
glitches cause by the relay operated video switchers of the day.  AFRTS
was still using relay type video switching in at least one TV station in
1974.


-- 
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Martin Heffels wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 20:27:43 -0700, isw <isw@witzend.com> wrote:
> 
> >Clipping causes whites lose all texture -- very similar to overexposed
> >film.
> 
> White clipping makes you loose the texture, and some other interesting
> things occur, like the clipped area turning yellowish (solarization).
> But it's not only white which can clip, with colour-correction you can
> easily clip one of the three colour-channels. And of course you can clip
> black as well, loosing shadow detail.
> 
> >> Auditory-clipping can damage speakers. Can visual-"clipping" damage
> >> monitors?
> >
> >No. Prolonged blacks can damage television transmitters, however (video
> >is inverted for transmission, so black requires full power from the
> >transmitter).
> 
> I would say the transmitters would be resistant to that. Most run below
> their designed maximum power anyway.
> 


   Never worked at a TV transmitter site, have you?  If they are
operating under the specified power, they are in violation of their
license, and no one is stupid enough to overbuy on the transmitter
requirements.  The sync tips are at 100% power, and varies between full
white or black as required.  Neither will damage the transmitter if left
continuously. In the early days of TV it was very common to fade to
black before and after a commercial, because everything was done by
hand. The black allowed switching sources without displaying any
glitches cause by the relay operated video switchers of the day.  AFRTS
was still using relay type video switching in at least one TV station in
1974.


-- 
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Martin Heffels wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 20:27:43 -0700, isw <isw@witzend.com> wrote:
> 
> >Clipping causes whites lose all texture -- very similar to overexposed
> >film.
> 
> White clipping makes you loose the texture, and some other interesting
> things occur, like the clipped area turning yellowish (solarization).
> But it's not only white which can clip, with colour-correction you can
> easily clip one of the three colour-channels. And of course you can clip
> black as well, loosing shadow detail.
> 
> >> Auditory-clipping can damage speakers. Can visual-"clipping" damage
> >> monitors?
> >
> >No. Prolonged blacks can damage television transmitters, however (video
> >is inverted for transmission, so black requires full power from the
> >transmitter).
> 
> I would say the transmitters would be resistant to that. Most run below
> their designed maximum power anyway.
> 


   Never worked at a TV transmitter site, have you?  If they are
operating under the specified power, they are in violation of their
license, and no one is stupid enough to overbuy on the transmitter
requirements.  The sync tips are at 100% power, and varies between full
white or black as required.  Neither will damage the transmitter if left
continuously. In the early days of TV it was very common to fade to
black before and after a commercial, because everything was done by
hand. The black allowed switching sources without displaying any
glitches cause by the relay operated video switchers of the day.  AFRTS
was still using relay type video switching in at least one TV station in
1974.


-- 
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 12:23:52 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

>   Never worked at a TV transmitter site, have you?  If they are
>operating under the specified power, they are in violation of their
>license, and no one is stupid enough to overbuy on the transmitter
>requirements.

Help me here..... Since when would this be a violation? A
transmitter-license usually states the _maximum_ amount of power, so what
is different here? Stories are plenty of radio and television-stations
cutting down their power for power-saving reasons (money, money, money).

cheers

-martin-
-- 
Official website "Jonah's Quid" http://www.jonahsquids.co.uk

Martin Heffels wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 12:23:52 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
> <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> >   Never worked at a TV transmitter site, have you?  If they are
> >operating under the specified power, they are in violation of their
> >license, and no one is stupid enough to overbuy on the transmitter
> >requirements.
> 
> Help me here..... Since when would this be a violation? A
> transmitter-license usually states the _maximum_ amount of power, so what
> is different here? Stories are plenty of radio and television-stations
> cutting down their power for power-saving reasons (money, money, money).


   In the US a station has to notify the FCC if they are not operating
at the power they are licensed for.  It has to be logged on a set
schedule and kept in the station's permanent files for the FCC field
inspectors.  If a station is operating below the level they are licensed
for, they are not serving the area they agreed to provide service to.
VERY few stations were ever allowed to differ from their rated power. 
The only two I ever saw were on military bases where the transmitter
power was listed, with "Or as deemed necessary".  These were in remote
locations and major repairs were consider as 'Depot Level' repairs. 
Reduced or increased power was allowed, to stay on the air, but none of
these were high power stations.  The license was deemed a 'Courtesy
License' by the FCC, which meant that they had little authority over a
military transmitter, but the 'Courtesy License' was granted to make
sure the frequency coordinators didn't assign a civilian station an
allocation that would interfere.


   If your power level is too high, you can cause problems for other
stations, and if it's too low, your advertisers will demand refunds.

   I was a broadcast engineer at one military and two civilian TV
stations over a 17 year period.  I lost count of the AM radio stations I
did work for, or located parts and equipment to keep on the air.

-- 
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida